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#1848483 - 02/20/12 02:12 PM Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad...
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Hello everyone

Yesterday got really impressed with this Yamaha C2. I`ve never played in one... It was my first time but is very similar to the well known C3... Techncaly not bad at all for a small tail piano.

Greetings from Portugal
André

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#1848489 - 02/20/12 02:26 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Thrill Science Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 540
Loc: California
Beautiful performance. I agree about the Yamaha C series.

It's probably the biggest bang for the buck out there; and IMHO beats the equivalent sized Steinway S, M, and L.

The one you played had a remarkably clear treble.
_________________________
Robert Swirsky
Thrill Science, Inc.

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#1848523 - 02/20/12 03:16 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8585
Loc: Georgia, USA
Wonderful performance, and the piano sounded great! I love that bright "pop" in the upper treble.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1848574 - 02/20/12 04:42 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Thrill Science]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Thrill Science
Beautiful performance. I agree about the Yamaha C series.

It's probably the biggest bang for the buck out there; and IMHO beats the equivalent sized Steinway S, M, and L.


While it may not beat a good Steinway (unlike new Yamahas' predictability, Steinways vary quite a bit and some are less than terrific), it is certainly a better deal, buck for buck, as we Americans would say.

A C3 costs quite a bit more and takes up space some of us just don't have (6'1" for the C3 vs. 5'8" for the C2), but if you have the space and the considerably larger amount of money, I'd suggest at least playing a C3, as it has quite a bit more presence, not that the C2 isn't a fine instrument.

I'm getting a C2. I don't think a C3 would even fit up the stairs, which allows me to not second guess my decision. That said, if money and space were no object, I'd get a C3. Good luck.

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#1848584 - 02/20/12 04:57 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
André,

How big is the 'Casino da Figueira' as a concert venue?
Some claim the C2 indeed has a more intimate sound than the C3 in smaller rooms especially in homes.

Any idea why the Casino choose a C2; suppose they rented it for the occasion or perhaps it is simply the piano the casino owns?

Any idea how this was recorded, i.e. in room microphone(s) or close microphone setting?

Vedry nice performance indeed!

schwammerl.

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#1848636 - 02/20/12 06:45 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Rafterman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/12
Posts: 407
Loc: New York
I love the Yamaha C2 and C3. When my playing catches up to that level I will get one. I love video performances with that piano. Thank you for posting.

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#1848659 - 02/20/12 07:30 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
I just spoke with a local person (Portland OR) who has owned a C series Yamaha for a decade. It's now 30 years old. She has it tuned once a year, not because it sounds bad to her, but because she thinks she should. Each year, the tuner exclaims how remarkably close to in-tune it has remained after an entire year. The piano has no Dampp Chaser.

To be fair, unlike many places, Portland summers do not get very humid. Also, because our winter humidity is very high out-of-doors and the need for inside heating is less than in much of the country (with winter temps typically going no lower than high 30s farenheit and often approaching 50), pianos are spared humid summers and dry indoor winters.

Still, I think it's a testament to Yamaha's fabled rock-solid reliability and stability that a piano without a Dampp Chaser doesn't really quite need one tuning a year!

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#1848831 - 02/21/12 01:47 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Thrill Science]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1664
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: Thrill Science
Beautiful performance. I agree about the Yamaha C series.

It's probably the biggest bang for the buck out there; and IMHO beats the equivalent sized Steinway S, M, and L.

The one you played had a remarkably clear treble.


The Yamaha C series are great pianos. But I think they are quite far down the list of 'bang for your buck pianos'. Considering that you can get an equivalent sized Estonia or Shigeru Kawai for the same price I would put the Yamaha C series in the overpriced category. To each his own but a well prepped Steinway is hard to beat with a top tier instrument let alone a C series Yamaha...
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

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#1848843 - 02/21/12 02:50 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14267
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Dear Andre:

You are a wonderful pianist but IMHO this piano didn't do you any justice.

Would love to hear you on a fine European or American piano, your playing begs for one...

Norbert thumb
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1849028 - 02/21/12 10:56 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Norbert]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Dear Andre:

You are a wonderful pianist but IMHO this piano didn't do you any justice. Norbert


How can anyone pretend to be able to evaluate the sound of a piano by listening to a recording coming through the speakers of their computer? Jeeez . . .

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#1849054 - 02/21/12 11:41 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: AJF]
Thrill Science Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 540
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: AJF

To each his own but a well prepped Steinway is hard to beat with a top tier instrument let alone a C series Yamaha...


Obviously this is a matter of personal choice. But for my own living room, I had upgraded from a Steinway "M" to a Yamaha C7 before going to my current Bösendorfer 225. (Granted the "M" wasn't new, which may have contributed to my dissatisfaction. It was about 10 years old when I got it.)

Certainly the Steinway "B" and "D" are performance-quality instruments. But I had said that the Yamaha C1/C2/C3 series may be a better choice than the roughly equivalent sized "S" "M" and "L". The shorter Steinways are not a good value, and IMHO don't perform any better than a good quality Japanese piano.


Edited by Thrill Science (02/21/12 11:41 AM)
_________________________
Robert Swirsky
Thrill Science, Inc.

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#1849062 - 02/21/12 12:01 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1120
Loc: chicago, il
Originally Posted By: jivemutha
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Dear Andre:

You are a wonderful pianist but IMHO this piano didn't do you any justice. Norbert


How can anyone pretend to be able to evaluate the sound of a piano by listening to a recording coming through the speakers of their computer? Jeeez . . .


yes indeed, i would certainly trust andre's ear, highly trained and discerning, over what was obviously a poor quality recording.

and norbert -- shame on you. suggesting that a yamaha, played by the likes of richter and gould, is a lesser quality instrument than a euro or american instrument. if andre had been playing a chinese piano i'm sure your comments would have been quite different. nice try, but an epic fail nonetheless.

the yamaha c3xa completely turned my head around wrt yamahas -- what an absolutely beautiful instrument. as many of you know, i sold my M&H and bought a C7, and am absolutely in love with its sound. my steinway B friends (2 of them) are jealous.

ps -- i've yet to play an estonia that i liked, so personal taste does come into play when discussing pianos.

pps -- for good measure, a couple higher quality recordings of yamahas:
my C7: http://www.box.com/s/0lia1ms5c3ri0l735409
a CF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG0kKXI8CDI


Edited by Entheo (02/21/12 12:49 PM)
_________________________
diary of an amateur pianist

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#1849081 - 02/21/12 12:40 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1664
Loc: Toronto
Play one of the current Estonia's and you might be surprised. I know I was....
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

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#1849127 - 02/21/12 02:10 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Entheo]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Entheo
yes indeed, i would certainly trust andre's ear, highly trained and discerning, over what was obviously a poor quality recording.

and norbert -- shame on you. suggesting that a yamaha, played by the likes of richter and gould, is a lesser quality instrument than a euro or american instrument. if andre had been playing a chinese piano i'm sure your comments would have been quite different. nice try, but an epic fail nonetheless.


I believe Entheo makes a valid point. In the end, most of us have a "vested interest" even if it's only psychological. For example, when a person has spent a lot of money on a piano they're likely to defend it, not wanting to feel they've goofed. Perhaps I'm doing it myself right now! These vested interests, whether monetary or psychological, can unfortunately spin our comments.

And yet, if there is one PW contributor who in my mind stands out as defending his vested interests in a way most likely to possibly distort what might be pereceived without those special interests, I believe it to be Norbert, with his frequent cutting of Japanese pianos (sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle) and his tiresome defence of Chinese pianos.

Norbert makes money when one of his Chinese pianos sells. When someone in his local market chooses a Japanese piano instead, it translates into business he has lost. Does anyone really think this could not affect his perception?

Perhaps the least spin coming from anyone, at least in my view, comes from Larry Fine. I think he has bent over backward to be fair-minded in his assessments (and he's no great lover of the piano I chose). His assessment shows that despite the remarkable improvement Chinese pianos have made, as yet, not even one has made it into any of his performance grades or his professional grade (http://www.pianobuyer.com/fall11/44.html).

If current trends continue, it seems likely that there will come a time when Chinese pianos will have gone beyond being "the best deal" to being of high enough quality to get into Fine's top categories. However, none of us is in a position to buy a 2015 Hailun or Pearl River. If we're buying today, we must choose what's available today. If we're hunting for the best deal, it has become almost unquestionably Chinese. If we're hunting for one of the best pianos, for the moment that remains an entirely different story. Cutting at a C2 when you're sellilng Ritmullers should be, as Entheo suggests, a shameful position to take.

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#1849155 - 02/21/12 02:53 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7304
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: jivemutha

In the end, most of us have a "vested interest"


In the beginning too, but I don't think the OP's vested interest here was in the piano.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1849156 - 02/21/12 02:57 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: turandot]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: turandot
Originally Posted By: jivemutha

In the end, most of us have a "vested interest"


In the beginning too, but I don't think the OP's vested interest here was in the piano.


Fully agreed.

Norbert's comments, on the other had, are a different story.

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#1849165 - 02/21/12 03:16 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14267
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:

and norbert -- shame on you. suggesting that a yamaha, played by the likes of richter and gould, is a lesser quality instrument than a euro or american instrument.


Sorry if I created a misunderstanding.

Yamaha would have made a wonderful choice if it would have been the 9' concert, same piano Richter or Gould used to play.

Sure the C2 sounded 'nice' but I thought OP's playing was quite above what a 5'10 would deliver - just about *ANY* 5'10 that is....

Meant as compliment to player, not criticism of piano...

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (02/21/12 03:28 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1849192 - 02/21/12 04:04 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Norbert]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1120
Loc: chicago, il
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Meant as compliment to player, not criticism of piano...


just to be clear regarding why you were 'misunderstood'...

Originally Posted By: Norbert
IMHO this piano didn't do you any justice. Would love to hear you on a fine European or American piano, your playing begs for one...
_________________________
diary of an amateur pianist

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#1849211 - 02/21/12 04:27 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Norbert]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Sure the C2 sounded 'nice' but I thought OP's playing was quite above what a 5'10 would deliver - just about *ANY* 5'10 that is....


A C2 isn't 5'10," Norbert. (At that size, methinks a couple of inches does make a difference.)

Originally Posted By: Norbert
Meant as compliment to player, not criticism of piano... Norbert


Yeah, right. The little boy has cried wolf too many times.

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#1849259 - 02/21/12 05:38 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: AJF]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: AJF
. . . you can get an equivalent sized Estonia or Shigeru Kawai for the same price I would put the Yamaha C series


Not true. Check out Fine's SMPs. The bottom end Shigeru has an SMP of over $43K. The tiniest Estonia has an SMP of almost $40K, at only 5'6". The SMP for a C2 is $30K. While SMP numbers are higher than you'd likely pay, what reason do you have to believe that these vastly different SMPs would translate into the same sales prices between C2s and these more upscale (and more expensive) pianos?

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#1849336 - 02/21/12 08:14 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1664
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: jivemutha
Originally Posted By: AJF
. . . you can get an equivalent sized Estonia or Shigeru Kawai for the same price I would put the Yamaha C series


Not true. Check out Fine's SMPs. The bottom end Shigeru has an SMP of over $43K. The tiniest Estonia has an SMP of almost $40K, at only 5'6". The SMP for a C2 is $30K. While SMP numbers are higher than you'd likely pay, what reason do you have to believe that these vastly different SMPs would translate into the same sales prices between C2s and these more upscale (and more expensive) pianos?


I'm talking about in the real world, not a book of price lists.
Those prices do not factor in market conditions and location. They are a starting point but most definitely not a bible.


Edited by AJF (02/21/12 08:16 PM)
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

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#1849371 - 02/21/12 10:12 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: AJF]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: AJF
I'm talking about in the real world, not a book of price lists. Those prices do not factor in market conditions and location. They are a starting point but most definitely not a bible.


Does that mean you've actually seen equivalent prices recently? If so, what's that price? As I said, Fine's SMPs are not what people pay, but they do typically reflect RELATIVE differences. This case, they're not close, so I'd be surprised to find out these instruments with radically different SMPs go for the same amount. If I'm wrong, I'd be glad to hear the details.

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#1849390 - 02/21/12 11:00 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1120
Loc: chicago, il
the piano buyer 'map of the market' is woefully out of date, and categorizations seem based more on retail price and hearsay than anything. C7s retail for 65k now, yet no one need pay that much. personally, i haven't seen any charles walter, petrof or estonias on major venues, unlike some 'professional grade' pianos listed.
_________________________
diary of an amateur pianist

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#1849398 - 02/21/12 11:23 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Entheo]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Entheo
the piano buyer 'map of the market' is woefully out of date, and categorizations seem based more on retail price and hearsay than anything. C7s retail for 65k now, yet no one need pay that much. personally, i haven't seen any charles walter, petrof or estonias on major venues, unlike some 'professional grade' pianos listed.


Fine acknowledges that MSRP are way out of line with real prices. He does, however, suggest that while his SMPs are also just that--absolute maximums that someone presumably pays only if they're special ordering a piano in a small town in inland Alaska (OK--I admit that specific categorization is mine, not Fine's), the SMPs do provide at least a modicum of RELATIVE street prices.

Thus, if, for example, you discover that in your area a real street price for piano X is 80% of the SMP (and 70% of MSRP), then my read of Fine is that he's suggesting that perhaps we should ignore the MSRP but consider that 80% of SMP on an unrelated piano might not be a totally crazy street price.

Does your comment above about Charles Walter, Petrof, and Estonias mean that you don't know what they actually sell for, or does it mean something else? I don't understand. (I don't know what they sell for. I'm curious what you meant.) Thanks in advance for a reply.

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#1849449 - 02/22/12 01:58 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7304
Loc: torrance, CA
Fine prices do not apply to Canada. Yamaha prices in Canada are much closer to MSRP than they are in the US. People will pay more, so they take more. No different with other makers really. Nobody intentionally sells for less than the market will bear. Think NY Steinway for a US comparison.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1849504 - 02/22/12 08:33 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Entheo]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19644
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Entheo
the piano buyer 'map of the market' is woefully out of date, and categorizations seem based more on retail price and hearsay than anything. C7s retail for 65k now, yet no one need pay that much.
It seems as if you're quoting the MSRP for the C7. The whole point of the Piano Buyer is that the MSRP should be ignored and buyers should be looking at the SMP which is 55K. Take 10-30% off that for the street price.

Not sure what you mean by "heresay", but the Fine rankings are based on the opinion of numerous techs and other industry professsionals together with Fine's own opinions. "Out of date" seems especially the wrong term to use as the PB is probably most up to date book in terms of its figures and Fine probably has a greater knowledge of the entire piano industry than almost anyone on the planet.

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#1849515 - 02/22/12 09:07 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1120
Loc: chicago, il
Originally Posted By: jivemutha
Does your comment above about Charles Walter, Petrof, and Estonias mean that you don't know what they actually sell for, or does it mean something else? I don't understand. (I don't know what they sell for. I'm curious what you meant.) Thanks in advance for a reply.


yeah i was being circuitous. here's my point:

i take issue with PB categorizing the yamaha C series below the tier 3 pianos. there are two brands that dominate the concert, performance and recording venues: steinway and yamaha (C, CXA & CF). the C7 dominates in recording studio usage. perhaps it's because yamaha uses state of the art manufacturing technology and ISO SOPs to build their products and not Giuseppe & son hand-chipping bridges by candlelight in a romantic workroom in the back of the factory. smirk

sound notwithstanding (that being subjective), the quality of workmanship on my C7 is much better than it was on my M&H (a tier 2 piano) which, not unlike the other poster's complaint about the quality of his MH harp, mine too came brand new with lots of chips, dings, and a rather poor spray job (i did notice the imperfections but love turned a blind eye). the harp, fit & finish on my C7 is immaculate (i'm not suggesting it's in the same category as the tier ones). also, of the many pianos i've played the shigeru kawaii and yamaha actions come out on top (for me anyway).

i can understand the yamaha G series being classified as tier 4, but scratch my head at the C series being put there, especially in light of "Yamaha's quality control and its warranty and tech service are legendary in the piano business. They are the standard against which every other company is measured." (PB)
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diary of an amateur pianist

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#1849556 - 02/22/12 10:44 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Entheo]
fingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 799
Loc: Westchester, NY
[quote=Entheo
i can understand the yamaha G series being classified as tier 4, but scratch my head at the C series being put there, especially in light of "Yamaha's quality control and its warranty and tech service are legendary in the piano business. They are the standard against which every other company is measured." (PB)[/quote]

I don't know either, but maybe it has something to do with sound?

fingers
_________________________
Playing piano at age 2, it was thought that I was some sort of idiot-savant. As it turns out, I'm just an idiot.

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#1849562 - 02/22/12 11:10 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: Western Canada
I don't know if anyone has mentioned the touch of the Yamaha C2. To me, it didn't have a "forgiving" touch. The enjoyment level of playing wasn't there for me. Some pianos just make one want to play and play, but the black keys bothered me when I played this Yamaha C2, and I played the C3 and got the same feeling.

I'm not a lazy player, but I want my piano to help me as much as it can. This piano sounded good though. But I felt I had to fight a bit more to get out the sound I desired! I don't like to fight! grin
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Diane
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#1849568 - 02/22/12 11:21 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: fingers]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1120
Loc: chicago, il
Originally Posted By: fingers
I don't know either, but maybe it has something to do with sound?


the beauty of the sound lies in the ear of the beholder; very very subjective call if indeed that's the case. i'll put my C7's sound up against any comparably sized tier 1 piano...

http://www.box.com/s/0lia1ms5c3ri0l735409

(good speakers or headphone required)
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