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#1848483 - 02/20/12 02:12 PM Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad...
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Hello everyone

Yesterday got really impressed with this Yamaha C2. I`ve never played in one... It was my first time but is very similar to the well known C3... Techncaly not bad at all for a small tail piano.

Greetings from Portugal
André

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#1848489 - 02/20/12 02:26 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Thrill Science Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 540
Loc: California
Beautiful performance. I agree about the Yamaha C series.

It's probably the biggest bang for the buck out there; and IMHO beats the equivalent sized Steinway S, M, and L.

The one you played had a remarkably clear treble.
_________________________
Robert Swirsky
Thrill Science, Inc.

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#1848523 - 02/20/12 03:16 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8585
Loc: Georgia, USA
Wonderful performance, and the piano sounded great! I love that bright "pop" in the upper treble.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1848574 - 02/20/12 04:42 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Thrill Science]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Thrill Science
Beautiful performance. I agree about the Yamaha C series.

It's probably the biggest bang for the buck out there; and IMHO beats the equivalent sized Steinway S, M, and L.


While it may not beat a good Steinway (unlike new Yamahas' predictability, Steinways vary quite a bit and some are less than terrific), it is certainly a better deal, buck for buck, as we Americans would say.

A C3 costs quite a bit more and takes up space some of us just don't have (6'1" for the C3 vs. 5'8" for the C2), but if you have the space and the considerably larger amount of money, I'd suggest at least playing a C3, as it has quite a bit more presence, not that the C2 isn't a fine instrument.

I'm getting a C2. I don't think a C3 would even fit up the stairs, which allows me to not second guess my decision. That said, if money and space were no object, I'd get a C3. Good luck.

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#1848584 - 02/20/12 04:57 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
André,

How big is the 'Casino da Figueira' as a concert venue?
Some claim the C2 indeed has a more intimate sound than the C3 in smaller rooms especially in homes.

Any idea why the Casino choose a C2; suppose they rented it for the occasion or perhaps it is simply the piano the casino owns?

Any idea how this was recorded, i.e. in room microphone(s) or close microphone setting?

Vedry nice performance indeed!

schwammerl.

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#1848636 - 02/20/12 06:45 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Rafterman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/12
Posts: 407
Loc: New York
I love the Yamaha C2 and C3. When my playing catches up to that level I will get one. I love video performances with that piano. Thank you for posting.

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#1848659 - 02/20/12 07:30 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
I just spoke with a local person (Portland OR) who has owned a C series Yamaha for a decade. It's now 30 years old. She has it tuned once a year, not because it sounds bad to her, but because she thinks she should. Each year, the tuner exclaims how remarkably close to in-tune it has remained after an entire year. The piano has no Dampp Chaser.

To be fair, unlike many places, Portland summers do not get very humid. Also, because our winter humidity is very high out-of-doors and the need for inside heating is less than in much of the country (with winter temps typically going no lower than high 30s farenheit and often approaching 50), pianos are spared humid summers and dry indoor winters.

Still, I think it's a testament to Yamaha's fabled rock-solid reliability and stability that a piano without a Dampp Chaser doesn't really quite need one tuning a year!

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#1848831 - 02/21/12 01:47 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Thrill Science]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1663
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: Thrill Science
Beautiful performance. I agree about the Yamaha C series.

It's probably the biggest bang for the buck out there; and IMHO beats the equivalent sized Steinway S, M, and L.

The one you played had a remarkably clear treble.


The Yamaha C series are great pianos. But I think they are quite far down the list of 'bang for your buck pianos'. Considering that you can get an equivalent sized Estonia or Shigeru Kawai for the same price I would put the Yamaha C series in the overpriced category. To each his own but a well prepped Steinway is hard to beat with a top tier instrument let alone a C series Yamaha...
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

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#1848843 - 02/21/12 02:50 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14260
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Dear Andre:

You are a wonderful pianist but IMHO this piano didn't do you any justice.

Would love to hear you on a fine European or American piano, your playing begs for one...

Norbert thumb
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1849028 - 02/21/12 10:56 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Norbert]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Dear Andre:

You are a wonderful pianist but IMHO this piano didn't do you any justice. Norbert


How can anyone pretend to be able to evaluate the sound of a piano by listening to a recording coming through the speakers of their computer? Jeeez . . .

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#1849054 - 02/21/12 11:41 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: AJF]
Thrill Science Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 540
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: AJF

To each his own but a well prepped Steinway is hard to beat with a top tier instrument let alone a C series Yamaha...


Obviously this is a matter of personal choice. But for my own living room, I had upgraded from a Steinway "M" to a Yamaha C7 before going to my current Bösendorfer 225. (Granted the "M" wasn't new, which may have contributed to my dissatisfaction. It was about 10 years old when I got it.)

Certainly the Steinway "B" and "D" are performance-quality instruments. But I had said that the Yamaha C1/C2/C3 series may be a better choice than the roughly equivalent sized "S" "M" and "L". The shorter Steinways are not a good value, and IMHO don't perform any better than a good quality Japanese piano.


Edited by Thrill Science (02/21/12 11:41 AM)
_________________________
Robert Swirsky
Thrill Science, Inc.

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#1849062 - 02/21/12 12:01 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1120
Loc: chicago, il
Originally Posted By: jivemutha
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Dear Andre:

You are a wonderful pianist but IMHO this piano didn't do you any justice. Norbert


How can anyone pretend to be able to evaluate the sound of a piano by listening to a recording coming through the speakers of their computer? Jeeez . . .


yes indeed, i would certainly trust andre's ear, highly trained and discerning, over what was obviously a poor quality recording.

and norbert -- shame on you. suggesting that a yamaha, played by the likes of richter and gould, is a lesser quality instrument than a euro or american instrument. if andre had been playing a chinese piano i'm sure your comments would have been quite different. nice try, but an epic fail nonetheless.

the yamaha c3xa completely turned my head around wrt yamahas -- what an absolutely beautiful instrument. as many of you know, i sold my M&H and bought a C7, and am absolutely in love with its sound. my steinway B friends (2 of them) are jealous.

ps -- i've yet to play an estonia that i liked, so personal taste does come into play when discussing pianos.

pps -- for good measure, a couple higher quality recordings of yamahas:
my C7: http://www.box.com/s/0lia1ms5c3ri0l735409
a CF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG0kKXI8CDI


Edited by Entheo (02/21/12 12:49 PM)
_________________________
diary of an amateur pianist

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#1849081 - 02/21/12 12:40 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1663
Loc: Toronto
Play one of the current Estonia's and you might be surprised. I know I was....
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

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#1849127 - 02/21/12 02:10 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Entheo]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Entheo
yes indeed, i would certainly trust andre's ear, highly trained and discerning, over what was obviously a poor quality recording.

and norbert -- shame on you. suggesting that a yamaha, played by the likes of richter and gould, is a lesser quality instrument than a euro or american instrument. if andre had been playing a chinese piano i'm sure your comments would have been quite different. nice try, but an epic fail nonetheless.


I believe Entheo makes a valid point. In the end, most of us have a "vested interest" even if it's only psychological. For example, when a person has spent a lot of money on a piano they're likely to defend it, not wanting to feel they've goofed. Perhaps I'm doing it myself right now! These vested interests, whether monetary or psychological, can unfortunately spin our comments.

And yet, if there is one PW contributor who in my mind stands out as defending his vested interests in a way most likely to possibly distort what might be pereceived without those special interests, I believe it to be Norbert, with his frequent cutting of Japanese pianos (sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle) and his tiresome defence of Chinese pianos.

Norbert makes money when one of his Chinese pianos sells. When someone in his local market chooses a Japanese piano instead, it translates into business he has lost. Does anyone really think this could not affect his perception?

Perhaps the least spin coming from anyone, at least in my view, comes from Larry Fine. I think he has bent over backward to be fair-minded in his assessments (and he's no great lover of the piano I chose). His assessment shows that despite the remarkable improvement Chinese pianos have made, as yet, not even one has made it into any of his performance grades or his professional grade (http://www.pianobuyer.com/fall11/44.html).

If current trends continue, it seems likely that there will come a time when Chinese pianos will have gone beyond being "the best deal" to being of high enough quality to get into Fine's top categories. However, none of us is in a position to buy a 2015 Hailun or Pearl River. If we're buying today, we must choose what's available today. If we're hunting for the best deal, it has become almost unquestionably Chinese. If we're hunting for one of the best pianos, for the moment that remains an entirely different story. Cutting at a C2 when you're sellilng Ritmullers should be, as Entheo suggests, a shameful position to take.

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#1849155 - 02/21/12 02:53 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
turandot Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7298
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: jivemutha

In the end, most of us have a "vested interest"


In the beginning too, but I don't think the OP's vested interest here was in the piano.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1849156 - 02/21/12 02:57 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: turandot]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: turandot
Originally Posted By: jivemutha

In the end, most of us have a "vested interest"


In the beginning too, but I don't think the OP's vested interest here was in the piano.


Fully agreed.

Norbert's comments, on the other had, are a different story.

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#1849165 - 02/21/12 03:16 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14260
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:

and norbert -- shame on you. suggesting that a yamaha, played by the likes of richter and gould, is a lesser quality instrument than a euro or american instrument.


Sorry if I created a misunderstanding.

Yamaha would have made a wonderful choice if it would have been the 9' concert, same piano Richter or Gould used to play.

Sure the C2 sounded 'nice' but I thought OP's playing was quite above what a 5'10 would deliver - just about *ANY* 5'10 that is....

Meant as compliment to player, not criticism of piano...

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (02/21/12 03:28 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1849192 - 02/21/12 04:04 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Norbert]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1120
Loc: chicago, il
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Meant as compliment to player, not criticism of piano...


just to be clear regarding why you were 'misunderstood'...

Originally Posted By: Norbert
IMHO this piano didn't do you any justice. Would love to hear you on a fine European or American piano, your playing begs for one...
_________________________
diary of an amateur pianist

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#1849211 - 02/21/12 04:27 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Norbert]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Sure the C2 sounded 'nice' but I thought OP's playing was quite above what a 5'10 would deliver - just about *ANY* 5'10 that is....


A C2 isn't 5'10," Norbert. (At that size, methinks a couple of inches does make a difference.)

Originally Posted By: Norbert
Meant as compliment to player, not criticism of piano... Norbert


Yeah, right. The little boy has cried wolf too many times.

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#1849259 - 02/21/12 05:38 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: AJF]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: AJF
. . . you can get an equivalent sized Estonia or Shigeru Kawai for the same price I would put the Yamaha C series


Not true. Check out Fine's SMPs. The bottom end Shigeru has an SMP of over $43K. The tiniest Estonia has an SMP of almost $40K, at only 5'6". The SMP for a C2 is $30K. While SMP numbers are higher than you'd likely pay, what reason do you have to believe that these vastly different SMPs would translate into the same sales prices between C2s and these more upscale (and more expensive) pianos?

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#1849336 - 02/21/12 08:14 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1663
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: jivemutha
Originally Posted By: AJF
. . . you can get an equivalent sized Estonia or Shigeru Kawai for the same price I would put the Yamaha C series


Not true. Check out Fine's SMPs. The bottom end Shigeru has an SMP of over $43K. The tiniest Estonia has an SMP of almost $40K, at only 5'6". The SMP for a C2 is $30K. While SMP numbers are higher than you'd likely pay, what reason do you have to believe that these vastly different SMPs would translate into the same sales prices between C2s and these more upscale (and more expensive) pianos?


I'm talking about in the real world, not a book of price lists.
Those prices do not factor in market conditions and location. They are a starting point but most definitely not a bible.


Edited by AJF (02/21/12 08:16 PM)
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

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#1849371 - 02/21/12 10:12 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: AJF]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: AJF
I'm talking about in the real world, not a book of price lists. Those prices do not factor in market conditions and location. They are a starting point but most definitely not a bible.


Does that mean you've actually seen equivalent prices recently? If so, what's that price? As I said, Fine's SMPs are not what people pay, but they do typically reflect RELATIVE differences. This case, they're not close, so I'd be surprised to find out these instruments with radically different SMPs go for the same amount. If I'm wrong, I'd be glad to hear the details.

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#1849390 - 02/21/12 11:00 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1120
Loc: chicago, il
the piano buyer 'map of the market' is woefully out of date, and categorizations seem based more on retail price and hearsay than anything. C7s retail for 65k now, yet no one need pay that much. personally, i haven't seen any charles walter, petrof or estonias on major venues, unlike some 'professional grade' pianos listed.
_________________________
diary of an amateur pianist

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#1849398 - 02/21/12 11:23 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Entheo]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Entheo
the piano buyer 'map of the market' is woefully out of date, and categorizations seem based more on retail price and hearsay than anything. C7s retail for 65k now, yet no one need pay that much. personally, i haven't seen any charles walter, petrof or estonias on major venues, unlike some 'professional grade' pianos listed.


Fine acknowledges that MSRP are way out of line with real prices. He does, however, suggest that while his SMPs are also just that--absolute maximums that someone presumably pays only if they're special ordering a piano in a small town in inland Alaska (OK--I admit that specific categorization is mine, not Fine's), the SMPs do provide at least a modicum of RELATIVE street prices.

Thus, if, for example, you discover that in your area a real street price for piano X is 80% of the SMP (and 70% of MSRP), then my read of Fine is that he's suggesting that perhaps we should ignore the MSRP but consider that 80% of SMP on an unrelated piano might not be a totally crazy street price.

Does your comment above about Charles Walter, Petrof, and Estonias mean that you don't know what they actually sell for, or does it mean something else? I don't understand. (I don't know what they sell for. I'm curious what you meant.) Thanks in advance for a reply.

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#1849449 - 02/22/12 01:58 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
turandot Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7298
Loc: torrance, CA
Fine prices do not apply to Canada. Yamaha prices in Canada are much closer to MSRP than they are in the US. People will pay more, so they take more. No different with other makers really. Nobody intentionally sells for less than the market will bear. Think NY Steinway for a US comparison.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1849504 - 02/22/12 08:33 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Entheo]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19640
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Entheo
the piano buyer 'map of the market' is woefully out of date, and categorizations seem based more on retail price and hearsay than anything. C7s retail for 65k now, yet no one need pay that much.
It seems as if you're quoting the MSRP for the C7. The whole point of the Piano Buyer is that the MSRP should be ignored and buyers should be looking at the SMP which is 55K. Take 10-30% off that for the street price.

Not sure what you mean by "heresay", but the Fine rankings are based on the opinion of numerous techs and other industry professsionals together with Fine's own opinions. "Out of date" seems especially the wrong term to use as the PB is probably most up to date book in terms of its figures and Fine probably has a greater knowledge of the entire piano industry than almost anyone on the planet.

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#1849515 - 02/22/12 09:07 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1120
Loc: chicago, il
Originally Posted By: jivemutha
Does your comment above about Charles Walter, Petrof, and Estonias mean that you don't know what they actually sell for, or does it mean something else? I don't understand. (I don't know what they sell for. I'm curious what you meant.) Thanks in advance for a reply.


yeah i was being circuitous. here's my point:

i take issue with PB categorizing the yamaha C series below the tier 3 pianos. there are two brands that dominate the concert, performance and recording venues: steinway and yamaha (C, CXA & CF). the C7 dominates in recording studio usage. perhaps it's because yamaha uses state of the art manufacturing technology and ISO SOPs to build their products and not Giuseppe & son hand-chipping bridges by candlelight in a romantic workroom in the back of the factory. smirk

sound notwithstanding (that being subjective), the quality of workmanship on my C7 is much better than it was on my M&H (a tier 2 piano) which, not unlike the other poster's complaint about the quality of his MH harp, mine too came brand new with lots of chips, dings, and a rather poor spray job (i did notice the imperfections but love turned a blind eye). the harp, fit & finish on my C7 is immaculate (i'm not suggesting it's in the same category as the tier ones). also, of the many pianos i've played the shigeru kawaii and yamaha actions come out on top (for me anyway).

i can understand the yamaha G series being classified as tier 4, but scratch my head at the C series being put there, especially in light of "Yamaha's quality control and its warranty and tech service are legendary in the piano business. They are the standard against which every other company is measured." (PB)
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diary of an amateur pianist

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#1849556 - 02/22/12 10:44 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Entheo]
fingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 799
Loc: Westchester, NY
[quote=Entheo
i can understand the yamaha G series being classified as tier 4, but scratch my head at the C series being put there, especially in light of "Yamaha's quality control and its warranty and tech service are legendary in the piano business. They are the standard against which every other company is measured." (PB)[/quote]

I don't know either, but maybe it has something to do with sound?

fingers
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Playing piano at age 2, it was thought that I was some sort of idiot-savant. As it turns out, I'm just an idiot.

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#1849562 - 02/22/12 11:10 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: Western Canada
I don't know if anyone has mentioned the touch of the Yamaha C2. To me, it didn't have a "forgiving" touch. The enjoyment level of playing wasn't there for me. Some pianos just make one want to play and play, but the black keys bothered me when I played this Yamaha C2, and I played the C3 and got the same feeling.

I'm not a lazy player, but I want my piano to help me as much as it can. This piano sounded good though. But I felt I had to fight a bit more to get out the sound I desired! I don't like to fight! grin
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Diane
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher


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#1849568 - 02/22/12 11:21 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: fingers]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1120
Loc: chicago, il
Originally Posted By: fingers
I don't know either, but maybe it has something to do with sound?


the beauty of the sound lies in the ear of the beholder; very very subjective call if indeed that's the case. i'll put my C7's sound up against any comparably sized tier 1 piano...

http://www.box.com/s/0lia1ms5c3ri0l735409

(good speakers or headphone required)
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diary of an amateur pianist

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#1849581 - 02/22/12 11:49 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1425
Back on topic,

Great playing and I have to admit the Yamaha C2 sounds really nice here. Surprising for a piano of only 5'8".

I actually played a private party this past weekend, and the owner of the house had an RX-2 and I was really shocked at how well it worked in the room, plus the overall tone, even in the lower register.
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#1849591 - 02/22/12 12:00 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Entheo]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Entheo
. . . there are two brands that dominate the concert, performance and recording venues: steinway and yamaha (C, CXA & CF). the C7 dominates in recording studio usage.


At least here in the U.S., Entheo's comment about S&S and Yamaha dominating concert, performance, and recording venues can hardly be questioned. Entheo goes on to make some plausible and reasonable guesses as to why that might be so (which I have not quoted above, but can be found in his full comment).

QUESTION: Can anyone who has actual knowledge of how recording studios and concert halls pick their pianos further enlighten us as to why, mostly to the exclusion of other pianos, S&S and Yamaha dominate these fields? I must say, I'm curious.

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#1849609 - 02/22/12 12:17 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
kdr152004 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 88
Judging sound quality is very subjective...however, not all ears are created equal, and some have trained their ears to be very sensitive. I've talked to several piano technicians and pianists alike who have felt that Yamaha grands (ex. the C series) fall short because they produce an "uninteresting sound". Honestly, as a young pianist, my ears cannot discern this "uninterestingness", can anyone help me out here?
_________________________
"Play Bach constantly. That will be your best means of progress." -F.Chopin

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#1849610 - 02/22/12 12:18 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
kdr152004 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 88
I know for a fact that a lot of people that run recording studious don't know squat about pianos, and just chose a piano from a brand they know and trust.
_________________________
"Play Bach constantly. That will be your best means of progress." -F.Chopin

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#1849658 - 02/22/12 01:36 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Entheo]
Grand Piano Haus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Skokie, IL
Originally Posted By: Entheo
Originally Posted By: fingers
I don't know either, but maybe it has something to do with sound?


the beauty of the sound lies in the ear of the beholder; very very subjective call if indeed that's the case. i'll put my C7's sound up against any comparably sized tier 1 piano...

http://www.box.com/s/0lia1ms5c3ri0l735409

(good speakers or headphone required)


Very nice recording.
smile

1 day you'll have to play our CFX.

Jeff Tasch
Grand Piano Haus
_________________________
Yamaha, Bösendorfer, Steingraeber & Söhne, Kayserburg, Ritmüller, Cable-Nelson, CEUS, Live-Performance model-LX, Disklavier-PRO, Q.R.S. & PianoDisc, AvantGrand, Clavinova, Arius http://www.GrandPianoHaus.com.

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#1849663 - 02/22/12 01:46 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: kdr152004]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: kdr152004
I've talked to several piano technicians and pianists alike who have felt that Yamaha grands (ex. the C series) fall short because they produce an "uninteresting sound". Honestly, as a young pianist, my ears cannot discern this "uninterestingness", can anyone help me out here?


Technicians do sometimes say this. Among players, however, if you ask a bunch of people I think you'll find a split. A relatively significant number of classical players will say just what you've said above. In contrast, most jazz players seem to love Yamahas (and I'm not focusing here on the famous ones like Chick Corea).

Larry Fine even makes a special point of this in The Piano Book. I've asked on PW why this is so, but have not gotten answers.

I'm a jazz player. If I had to guess, I would say that when your chords are filled with augmented 11ths and suspended fourths paired with minor 9th, etc., you don't want too "interesting" a sound from the instrument itself. The notes themselves are so complex that just a clean plain sound is enough and arguably even best! However, that's just my guess.

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#1850102 - 02/23/12 10:23 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
kdr152004 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 88
I know what your saying jivemutha, but I was looking for something for along the lines of the timbre of individual notes
_________________________
"Play Bach constantly. That will be your best means of progress." -F.Chopin

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#1850686 - 02/24/12 11:46 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Thrill Science]
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: Thrill Science
Beautiful performance. I agree about the Yamaha C series.

It's probably the biggest bang for the buck out there; and IMHO beats the equivalent sized Steinway S, M, and L.

The one you played had a remarkably clear treble.


Thank you!

I´m afraid i agree... This August i went to Seinway in Hamburg and tryed all hamburg models (minus de D, but that one i already know) and got the impression that small tail steinway aren`t (for me) as eficient as bigger and better ones are (in terms of macanism)... So i think there is not a point in prefering these very expensive pianos (more 50 000 Eur in Hamburg) if they are not very VERY good in all items...

But my point was to aproach the C2 has a very equivalent to the C3. And that for me was a bit surprising... I grew up in a world of C3 and never felt that less than C3 was a good option (technicaly and musicaly).

Greetings

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#1850690 - 02/24/12 11:49 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Rickster]
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: Rickster
Wonderful performance, and the piano sounded great! I love that bright "pop" in the upper treble.

Rick



Yeah!! Bright "pop"!! Sometimes you just can`t cover it in a yamaha...

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#1850698 - 02/24/12 11:56 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: jivemutha
Originally Posted By: Thrill Science
Beautiful performance. I agree about the Yamaha C series.

It's probably the biggest bang for the buck out there; and IMHO beats the equivalent sized Steinway S, M, and L.


While it may not beat a good Steinway (unlike new Yamahas' predictability, Steinways vary quite a bit and some are less than terrific), it is certainly a better deal, buck for buck, as we Americans would say.

A C3 costs quite a bit more and takes up space some of us just don't have (6'1" for the C3 vs. 5'8" for the C2), but if you have the space and the considerably larger amount of money, I'd suggest at least playing a C3, as it has quite a bit more presence, not that the C2 isn't a fine instrument.

I'm getting a C2. I don't think a C3 would even fit up the stairs, which allows me to not second guess my decision. That said, if money and space were no object, I'd get a C3. Good luck.


Yes, if you have the money and the space i would go to a C3 and spent some good money in technical improvment. I have a friend that did some years a go and he`s still very impressed with the mechanism. He had a very good guy working on the piano for several hours and it really helped!! He studied Liszt sonata in it and it didn`t loose any precision... Only tuning...but thats normal...

But anyway C2 is also an option and didn`t know that...
Greetings

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#1850704 - 02/24/12 12:06 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: schwammerl]
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: schwammerl
André,

How big is the 'Casino da Figueira' as a concert venue?
Some claim the C2 indeed has a more intimate sound than the C3 in smaller rooms especially in homes.

Any idea why the Casino choose a C2; suppose they rented it for the occasion or perhaps it is simply the piano the casino owns?

Any idea how this was recorded, i.e. in room microphone(s) or close microphone setting?

Vedry nice performance indeed!

schwammerl.


Hello and thank you...

This main hall of the Casino is dry (but not completly) and very tall... The recording is from a cybershot 16.1 HD... but they did some (very small) amplification with very close micriphones inside piano... frown but they know what they were doing... I tryed the piano with no amplification process and there wasn`T much of a difference because the amplification wasn´t that loud too... Sometimes amplification can really disturb the real sound of piano but to me it wasn`t too diferent in this case... Sometimes can be a real catastrofe...

Greetings

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#1850712 - 02/24/12 12:20 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Norbert]
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Dear Andre:

You are a wonderful pianist but IMHO this piano didn't do you any justice.

Would love to hear you on a fine European or American piano, your playing begs for one...

Norbert thumb



Thak you!

Well i think top, no matter their provinience can make a lot for pianists. Also different pianos can make a lot for different composers...

In the past 5 yeras we could see online top international competiotions such as Cliburn, Chopin or Tchaikovsky with several pianos to choose (Fazioli, Seinway (New York and Hamburg), Yamaha and Kawai for instance) and somtimes you get the impretion that the piano choice is more related to composer or type of work (solo, chamber or concerto)than pianist... And they even get to change piano choice in several rounds... For instance: no one would do a Prokofiev concerto in an hamburg steinway... but they love it to Debussy or Ravel repertoir because it has great pianissimo quality...

Anyway at some point you are right, small tail piano yamaha is not the best choice to record... but that we all know :-(

Greetings and thank you!

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#1850717 - 02/24/12 12:31 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1542
Loc: Danville, California
Originally Posted By: andrevazpereira
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Dear Andre:

You are a wonderful pianist but IMHO this piano didn't do you any justice.

Would love to hear you on a fine European or American piano, your playing begs for one...

Norbert thumb



Thak you!

Well i think top, no matter their provinience can make a lot for pianists. Also different pianos can make a lot for different composers...

In the past 5 yeras we could see online top international competiotions such as Cliburn, Chopin or Tchaikovsky with several pianos to choose (Fazioli, Seinway (New York and Hamburg), Yamaha and Kawai for instance) and somtimes you get the impretion that the piano choice is more related to composer or type of work (solo, chamber or concerto)than pianist... And they even get to change piano choice in several rounds... For instance: no one would do a Prokofiev concerto in an hamburg steinway... but they love it to Debussy or Ravel repertoir because it has great pianissimo quality...

Anyway at some point you are right, small tail piano yamaha is not the best choice to record... but that we all know :-(

Greetings and thank you!



Hmm...my favorite - and most would say the benchmark - recording of Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 3 in C Major is by Martha Argerich. Are you saying she did not perform on a Hamburg Steinway?

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#1850718 - 02/24/12 12:33 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Entheo]
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: Entheo
[quote=jivemutha][quote=Norbert]Dear Andre:


yes indeed, i would certainly trust andre's ear, highly trained and discerning, over what was obviously a poor quality recording.



Thank you! "Highly trained and discerning" ears are important but maybe is not the case... :-)
The quality of receording is not professional... you are absolutly right... Anyway, the paino helped more than i would think a C2 would respond...
Another important thing is that i`m always controling una corda so the piano doesn`t get to bright to nocturne ambience... with no una corda it was a little histeric but never too much... wich gives me a bigger option in colors (and that i didn`t expect for C2 also).
Greetings

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#1850721 - 02/24/12 12:34 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: andrevazpereira

Yes, if you have the money and the space i would go to a C3 and spent some good money in technical improvment.


Andre--could you perhaps be more specific? What would you ask the technician to do to a new C3 (or C2) to improve it, and would your focus be to primarily change the touch or the sound? Thank you in advance for a reply.

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#1850729 - 02/24/12 12:44 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Diane...]
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: Diane...
I don't know if anyone has mentioned the touch of the Yamaha C2. To me, it didn't have a "forgiving" touch. The enjoyment level of playing wasn't there for me. Some pianos just make one want to play and play, but the black keys bothered me when I played this Yamaha C2, and I played the C3 and got the same feeling.

I'm not a lazy player, but I want my piano to help me as much as it can. This piano sounded good though. But I felt I had to fight a bit more to get out the sound I desired! I don't like to fight! grin


Good point!!

I`m lazy too but unfortunatly the venus wich i play don`T always have Hamburg or New York Steiway or Fazioli or Yamaha CFX or Imperial Bosendorfer... so we have to get (unfortunatly) used to adversity... :-(.

Anyway, this one for me had a "forgiving" touch but i think he was very treated and i don`t think taht it`s a instrument that is played very often (so it was almost has new)...

We will always fight with theese small price pianos and sometimes i also get to fight with top pianos... It`s un unperfect world with unperfect pianos and we all have unperfect hands...

Greetings

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#1850733 - 02/24/12 12:50 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Grand Piano Haus]
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: Grand Piano Haus
Originally Posted By: Entheo
Originally Posted By: fingers
I don't know either, but maybe it has something to do with sound?


the beauty of the sound lies in the ear of the beholder; very very subjective call if indeed that's the case. i'll put my C7's sound up against any comparably sized tier 1 piano...

http://www.box.com/s/0lia1ms5c3ri0l735409

(good speakers or headphone required)


Very nice recording.
smile

1 day you'll have to play our CFX.

Jeff Tasch
Grand Piano Haus


I hope so... I`ve played in CF and have a litlle recording of Warsaw Concerto (live). Maria João Pires also had one (but i`m not sure is CF or CFX) and she played in several concerts with it...

Greetings

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#1850743 - 02/24/12 01:07 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: jivemutha
Originally Posted By: andrevazpereira

Yes, if you have the money and the space i would go to a C3 and spent some good money in technical improvment.


Andre--could you perhaps be more specific? What would you ask the technician to do to a new C3 (or C2) to improve it, and would your focus be to primarily change the touch or the sound? Thank you in advance for a reply.


Hello
In this case we are talking of top Technicians (in Portugal also steiway representant) and they surelly know more about it than me... Unfortunatly i`m not a Zimmerman or Sokolov that not only plays very well but also knows and treats all the technic of the piano himself...

I also don`t know some of the terms in englih but in terms oh hammers a lot can be done to help softning the touch (i a have eared some great improvments in very bad hammer pianos). For chamber music, when i can, i ask to "clip" the velcrum of the hammers to soften the primary atack of note, so its easier to bound with other instruments. With orchestra it`s the opostie way...
2 years ago i had a 1/4 tail rippen with 20 years that was hard as heck and the technician spent 8 hours working on it (just mechanic) and it improved a lot... but unfortunatly its a job by it self and i would never get to learn it...
A good tuning can also give more resonance to the piano and make a brighter or darker color (and that we al know) but i`m not a tuner... :-(


Edited by andrevazpereira (02/24/12 01:08 PM)

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#1850760 - 02/24/12 01:25 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Furtwangler]
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: Furtwangler
Originally Posted By: andrevazpereira
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Dear Andre:

You are a wonderful pianist but IMHO this piano didn't do you any justice.

Would love to hear you on a fine European or American piano, your playing begs for one...

Norbert thumb



Thak you!

Well i think top, no matter their provinience can make a lot for pianists. Also different pianos can make a lot for different composers...

In the past 5 yeras we could see online top international competiotions such as Cliburn, Chopin or Tchaikovsky with several pianos to choose (Fazioli, Seinway (New York and Hamburg), Yamaha and Kawai for instance) and somtimes you get the impretion that the piano choice is more related to composer or type of work (solo, chamber or concerto)than pianist... And they even get to change piano choice in several rounds... For instance: no one would do a Prokofiev concerto in an hamburg steinway... but they love it to Debussy or Ravel repertoir because it has great pianissimo quality...

Anyway at some point you are right, small tail piano yamaha is not the best choice to record... but that we all know :-(

Greetings and thank you!



Hmm...my favorite - and most would say the benchmark - recording of Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 3 in C Major is by Martha Argerich. Are you saying she did not perform on a Hamburg Steinway?


I was talking about competitors... and it was a specific Steinway Hamburg D that had no high note projection... And for that no one with a Prokofiev concerto picked it (the competitors).

In terms of recordings my favourite is Toradze (5 Piano concertos) and it`s not in a Steinway Hamburg D... But i also like Argerich. Is it really in a Steinway Hamburg D?


Edited by andrevazpereira (02/24/12 01:27 PM)

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#1850787 - 02/24/12 02:00 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: andrevazpereira
. . . in terms of hammers a lot can be done to help softning the touch . . . For chamber music, when I can, I ask to "clip" the velcrum of the hammers to soften the primary atack of note, so its easier to bound with other instruments. With orchestra it`s the opposite . . .


Thank you for your reply, Andre.

It sounds as though you're suggesting work on the hammers more to affect the touch than the sound. Am I hearing that right? If so, this is a surprise for me to hear about.

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#1850800 - 02/24/12 02:15 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: jivemutha
Originally Posted By: andrevazpereira
. . . in terms of hammers a lot can be done to help softning the touch . . . For chamber music, when I can, I ask to "clip" the velcrum of the hammers to soften the primary atack of note, so its easier to bound with other instruments. With orchestra it`s the opposite . . .




Thank you for your reply, Andre.

It sounds as though you're suggesting work on the hammers more to affect the touch than the sound. Am I hearing that right? If so, this is a surprise for me to hear about.


I think i`m talking about both. For instance:
"I ask to "clip" the velcrum of the hammers to soften the primary atack of note" - In here i`m talking about sound for instance... And it can really change the sound of the piano...

Greetings


Edited by andrevazpereira (02/24/12 03:47 PM)

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#1850804 - 02/24/12 02:17 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1542
Loc: Danville, California
Originally Posted By: andrevazpereira
Originally Posted By: Furtwangler
Originally Posted By: andrevazpereira
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Dear Andre:

You are a wonderful pianist but IMHO this piano didn't do you any justice.

Would love to hear you on a fine European or American piano, your playing begs for one...

Norbert thumb



Thak you!

Well i think top, no matter their provinience can make a lot for pianists. Also different pianos can make a lot for different composers...

In the past 5 yeras we could see online top international competiotions such as Cliburn, Chopin or Tchaikovsky with several pianos to choose (Fazioli, Seinway (New York and Hamburg), Yamaha and Kawai for instance) and somtimes you get the impretion that the piano choice is more related to composer or type of work (solo, chamber or concerto)than pianist... And they even get to change piano choice in several rounds... For instance: no one would do a Prokofiev concerto in an hamburg steinway... but they love it to Debussy or Ravel repertoir because it has great pianissimo quality...

Anyway at some point you are right, small tail piano yamaha is not the best choice to record... but that we all know :-(

Greetings and thank you!



Hmm...my favorite - and most would say the benchmark - recording of Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 3 in C Major is by Martha Argerich. Are you saying she did not perform on a Hamburg Steinway?


I was talking about competitors... and it was a specific Steinway Hamburg D that had no high note projection... And for that no one with a Prokofiev concerto picked it (the competitors).

In terms of recordings my favourite is Toradze (5 Piano concertos) and it`s not in a Steinway Hamburg D... But i also like Argerich. Is it really in a Steinway Hamburg D?


It is nearly always a Hamburg D. I can name some very few classical recordings that were made on other brands (Pletnev on Bluthner, Pizarro on Bluther or Yamaha, Schiff on perhaps Schimmel or Bosendorfer, etc) -- but I would wager that 95-99% of the classical piano recordings that I listen to regularly were recorded:

A. In Europe and
B. On a Hamburg Steinway

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#1850973 - 02/24/12 05:46 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
j&j Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 445
Loc: Southwest
Andre,

Beautiful performance. Thank you for posting.
_________________________
J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working." Pablo Picasso

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#1851052 - 02/24/12 07:52 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14260
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Andre:

Always nice to hear from other parts of the world especially some of my own favorite ones.... wink

One question please:

What pianos are commonly used in Portugal in comparable venues?

Norbert smile
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1851069 - 02/24/12 08:40 PM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: andrevazpereira
I think i`m talking about both [sound and touch]. For instance:
"I ask to "clip" the velcrum of the hammers to soften the primary atack of note" - In here i`m talking about sound for instance... And it can really change the sound of the piano...


Thank you for replying. Forgive my ignorance but what does "velcrum of the hammers" mean?

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#1851323 - 02/25/12 08:44 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: Norbert]
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Andre:

Always nice to hear from other parts of the world especially some of my own favorite ones.... wink

One question please:

What pianos are commonly used in Portugal in comparable venues?

Norbert smile


Hello again

In big venues is the Steinway...
In Schools is a Yamaha world...
C5 or C7 are the most common to see in school auditorios with the exception on Lisbon, Porto, Coimbra and Braga that have also Steinway. In Coimbra we have Steinway Hamburg D in conservatory and a New York Steinway in a concert hall.

In my town there are also lots of Rippen (tail and upright)...

There are (i think )2 Fazioli in concert halls in Portugal.
I have myself a Kawai (upright) but is not very common to see a tail Kawai in concert hall.
There are also bosendorff but also not very common... My University has one but its not a common piano in concert hall.

Greetings
André



Edited by andrevazpereira (02/25/12 08:45 AM)

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#1851324 - 02/25/12 08:46 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: jivemutha
Originally Posted By: andrevazpereira
I think i`m talking about both [sound and touch]. For instance:
"I ask to "clip" the velcrum of the hammers to soften the primary atack of note" - In here i`m talking about sound for instance... And it can really change the sound of the piano...


Thank you for replying. Forgive my ignorance but what does "velcrum of the hammers" mean?


Hello agian

I belive the correct term is the hammer "felt" that gets in contact with the string.

Greetings
André

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#1851830 - 02/26/12 01:25 AM Re: Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: andrevazpereira]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: andrevazpereira
Thank you for replying. Forgive my ignorance but what does "velcrum of the hammers" mean?


I belive the correct term is the hammer "felt" that gets in contact with the string.

Greetings
André [/quote]

Thank you. My new C2 comes with a free tuning and a free hammer voicing. This gives me something to discuss with the technician. Thanks again!

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#1984766 - 11/09/12 07:51 PM Yamaha C2 in concert... Not bad... [Re: jivemutha]
andrevazpereira Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Portugal
Technicians are the pianist's best "friends". In a recent interview with a famouse portuguese pianist, he said that he does not stand alone... He his the combination of himself, the manager and the technician... All three toghether is what makes him have a good sound a of course a carrear... We can't just stand alone in order to make music has we love it...

Greetings

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