Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum More grand piano selection help! Yamaha v. Kawai v. Shigeru!

I have assumed during my entire search process that the prices on the the Blue Book of Pianos were more or less accurate. I know they are supposed to represent invoice pricing so I mentally build in a fair markup percentage across all brands and models equally. If this is not accurate, could someone illuminate me? If there is some secret 50% Fazioli groupon, could you get me a link? If talking about the actual prices of pianos is verboten on this forum, pretend like this post doesn't exist.

Nope. Not verboten, and don't let dealers on pianoworld try to tell you otherwise. Many dealers are forbidden from discussing price in venues like this but there is no proscription against us buyers doing so.

I think the Piano Buyer in the left column considered far more up to date. Some have said that the Blue Book is very inaccurate. Most at PW don't seem to think the BB is a worthwhile source of information.

So what do you think the all in cost of the following pianos:

Steinway C227
Fazioli F228
Shigeru Kawai SK7
Kawai RX7
Young Chang YP228
Estonia 225
Mason & Hamlin BB
Steinway B
August Förster 215
Grotian Concert
Bösendorfer 225

Your question is answered in the Piano Buyer.

Thank you so much pianoloverus. Huge help. Huge.

Here's the Piano MatchMaker for you:
Piano MatchMaker

I've enjoyed your posts, Filthy and Snow. Nerve-wracking though it may be to peer through the fog, look under rocks in the forest for these hard-to-find but worthy makes, and really work hard to root out the truffles of information... nerve-wracking; still, you're in an enviable position. You have a real and legitimate excuse to go into piano stores and check out the wares to your heart's content. Some of us get a piano, yet go ahead and keep shopping anyway, though it's a somewhat guilty pleasure.

It doesn't seem to me that people who buy pianos (like the forum members) have anything against folks who have a few bucks, so don't worry about that.

Your story reminded me of a favorite book, Thad Carhart's The Piano Shop on the Left Bank. Part of his story is about finding a place in Paris where he can provide for his children's music education, in common with your piano search, and about his friendship with a local piano rebuilder and seller. Toward the end of the book he had a chance to go to Milan and visit the Fazioli factory, meeting the owner and taking home a piece of a soundboard as a souvenir.

I've re-read this book just for pleasure, several times. You might like it. He didn't buy the Faz, by the way; too much money, too special an instrument, too wonderful to waste on a player who could never live up to it. But in your position, I'd find it worth my while to have a look (unless you're burned out on shopping), since you love the engineering and specialness of the Shigeru.

PW's own Del Fandrich designed both of the Charles Walter grands, turning back to an instrument with the home music room, rather than the concert stage, in mind. Talk about hard to find--- but I'll bet your friend Two Snowflakes could make it happen.

All three (Shigeru, Fazioli, Walter) are very good examples of up-to-date piano design thought, but with different objectives, perspectives, and results. Still, it's genius-level work. I tried the CW but bought the RX, even though now I think the showroom was the wrong environment to hear the instrument properly... but that's a problem any piano shopper will face. Anyway, I'm happy with what I brought home.

I'd say your children are fortunate to have you, and you are fortunate to have such a good friend as Snow to help you.

You'll let us know, of course. Keep posting, we love these piano-shopping stories... though now that you're here, you've exchanged two snowflakes for a blizzard of them.

Piano Buyer doesn't answer this type of question.

Ears and fingers do.

Norbert

Interestingly enough we had an almost identical case just little while ago.

The decision went sideways, even taking us by surprise.

Insider tip: none of the above....

Norbert

Great advice!

In the Piano Buyer, you have to read more than just the numbers. In the details Larry Fine helps interpret the numbers, which is important given that the MSRP are in many cases close to meaningless and the SMPs need to be interpreted with caution.

Norbert, Are you sure? I think I remember you mentioning that and the piano is in his revised list I think, If not what did you customer go for?!

@Furt, point taken

I am going to agree with Norbert and say that ears and hands are the best judges. You really should have your daughter test drive the pianos on your list. No offense intended Piano Dad, but you should stick to logical factors in your decision making such as how much you're willing to spend and how big of a piano you can have in your home. There's only so much you can determine when you're shopping by brand.

Leave the alogical factors such as touch, tone, and overall performance/experience to the musician, your daughter. Who knows, maybe the piano would be that much more significant to her if she had a say in its purchase? A young aspiring musician that chooses a world-class instrument that speaks to her can have a positive effect and is a great opportunity. She's very blessed to have such a supportive father. Basically I am saying you should let your daughter choose. Who's the one spending hours and hours in isolated practice? I am sure you love the art and science of decision making. The PW threads, Piano Buyer, various manufacturer websites, shopping around dealers...it's all fun. But the musician should have some more weight on this decision.

If you wanted my initial, instinctive piece of advice:

Eff it, just go out and buy that Fazioli and call it a day. Shoot, you can even buy her a Shigeru Kawai and save the rest for piano lessons, music camp, and Juilliard.

I think there are some very different issues at hand here. Is it about getting a suitable piano for your 10 year old daughter? Or about getting a great piano just for the sake of it?

If your daughters upright always falls out of tune, she would definitively need an upgrade. But does she really need a 7 foot grand, even a Fazioli, with just 2 years experience? Excuse me, but to my mind that just would be complete overkill. She will need at least 10 more years of intense practising to only start to appreciate all the sublety and power of such a piano. And she will have nothing left to desire, pianowise.... from an educational standpoint, buying a 7 foot Fazioli for a 10 yeard old near beginner doesn't seem a very clever idea to me. Get her a good, new, top of the line upright piano, or maybe a simple baby-grand, like a Yamaha C2. If at age 20, she brilliantly plays all 24 Chopin Etudes, THEN you can buy her a 228 Fazioli.She will then fully appreciate how lucky she is, since even then probably none of her peers will have such a wonderful piano.

Maybe, on the other hand, you just want to possses a fantastic piano. You would also would want that to be a good investment. In that case, forget the Shigerus and Estonias, and get a Hamburg Steinway or a Fazioli (I still think a good upright or small, moderately cheap grand would be better for your daughter).

You also wrongly assume hat the "perfect piano" has to be in the 7-foot range. Different manufacturers have different strengths: the Steinway C (227) for exemple is a notoriosly unloved piano... most pianists would agree that the slightly smaller Steinway B is a vastly superior piano (it's a question of design and balance).

So in a nutshell, if you want a status symbol, an investement, or simply own a work of art in its own right, buy a Hamburg Steinway B, a Fazioli 212 or 228, or possibly a Steingraeber 212.

If you want the best piano for your daughter, buy her a new Yamaha U2 (upright) or Yamaha C2 (small grand). Make her desire and deserve the greater pianos when she will have fully shown her talent (and hardwork). Kids can feel quite uneasy and even guilt-laden when they get things they feel they don't deserve and know other kids can't have, don't put that burden on your daughter too soon...

I tend to disagree about getting a cheaper piano to start out, I play guitar primarily and having an inspiring instrument can make the process more enjoyable from the first note__ Having experienced many of the finest guitars helps me pull certain sounds out of any guitar..



We each only have so many years on the planet, I would prefer if possible that my kids were able to enjoy the timbre of a fine instrument from the start. I grew up with a nice sounding Sohmer upright - I am so glad It was a nice sounding instrument -- It certainly shaped my ear for years to come.
I bought a fazioli for my family room and my kids are just 1 and 2 years old... I of course want it for my wife and I also, But to tell you the truth The Idea of those little kids playing their first years on an instrument like that will not only be a joy for me to hear them play but also I do beleive it will be a fine experience for them.

Now as to your advice to buy a cheaper piano and get the Fazioli later. Hmmm, I wonder how much cheaper they will be in 10 years... FRPD did mention that he does want to be aware of the price, IMO a piano is such a long lived purchase, Once you step into the 50k+ range you might as well get the one you want -- In this case the work of art bit applies, I think he should get a great piano and don't look back.

Also, I know both sides of the 'have the child decide' keep coming -- I do think a kid could hear the difference it is just too possible for them to make a mistake about which would be preferable for the long haul, It is possible that a person that age might lack the ability to hold the context in mind, I agree if she had more time on the piano it might make a difference, In this case the tone that will shape her sensibilites it is SO important I think FRPD should hire a pianist to demostrate his 3 favorites after they are preped properly and go with his gut-- If youngster was part of the party fine, But it should not be a pile of adult musical professionals standing by not helping retain a great piece___

The question was about the cost.

Cost is one thing; value is different.

IMO the overwhelming majority of 10 old students with 2 years experience are not ready to evaluate piano's touch and tone.

FRPD has already indicated the rough price range and size of the piano he is looking for in one of his piano finder's earlier posts in the thread. Finally, Norbert did not repsond to the question he quoted which was about the prices for various pianos.

Yes, but the question was about the cost.

As Alexander Bickel liked to say, no answer is what the wrong question begets.