Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum How much should piano's age concern me?

I read some old forum posts and some people say to not get pianos older than 20 years old. I'm looking on Craigslist and there is a Yamaha U3 built in 1963 for $3750 and another built in 1974 for $4500. The $4500 supposedly was rebuilt and has another 9 years of a 10-year limited warranty.
Should I just keep looking until I find one built after 1994? Oddly enough, on the Yamaha serial#/age lookup website I don't see any Yamaha uprights builts after 2004. Have they stopped making them?

Well, You are about to get a number of more astute observations for certain. However, Here is my view -- The 20 year suggestion is a good one if you are playiong by the laws of averages, as either in any time more signifigant then that the piano is 'likely' to either have been played alot or worse... not given any attention. If the piano is neglected it can be trashed... though if it ages reaLLy well.. they can be good for 60 years.. Sorry for the confusion but the answer is 'it depends' have the inspected properly before buying as the variance can be quite wide-- I hope that helps! j

Have patience.

If you're in the U.S. and in a city ("Yonkers" such sounds like you fit the bill), you should be able to get a 20-year-old U3 in good shape (except, typically, for needing the hammers voiced down so it's no longer too bright) for less than $4,500. I just sold a 19-year-old American market U3 outside the Houston area (4 million people) and there were no nibbles till I got under $4,500 and no sale till I got down to $4K. There was nothing wrong with it (except the need for hammer voicing, which again is typical and should not be performed until you get the piano into your place, because rugs, upholstery, and the like may soften the sound to the point where you may not even want to have the hammers voiced). Good luck.

Patience. I have that. So there are exceptions but in general 20 years is a good number after all.
And a 20 year old Yamaha U3 should be about $4k in a US City.
Thanks.

Only with patience and probably some bargaining. This may vary from place to place.

Also, whenever you buy a used piano--any used piano, the money you spend on having a technician check it out is the cheapest and best insurance you'll ever get. DO IT.

Do it before you write the final check. (Sellers should be asked to take a returnable downpayment with a note signed by seller and potential buyer allowing the potential buyer to get out of the deal within a certain period of time if such an inspection uncovers problems. Have a technician lined up before you start hunting so when you find what interests you, you have a phone number to call right away.)

By the way, getting a good used U3 is a great way to spend your money. They're not expensive (because of the flooded gray market U3s in the U.S.), they're reliable, and they sound pretty good for a full size upright that doesn't come from Germany and doesn't cost your first born child.

Are you in Yonkers, NY? You sound like you are starting the same journey I just took with some near mistakes.Two books you should read which made me change my mind on a used piano. Order "Idiot's Guide to Buying a Piano". Read the Larry Fine Piano's buyer's guide.

I almost bought an 18 year old used Yamaha U3 built for the North American market when I first got into the market. The seller wanted $5500 firm with no bench. I had gone to a reputable Yamaha dealer with a fully prepped U3 on the floor. I played the new U3 and loved the sound. Then I went to the used dealer and that U3 sounded nothing like the new one. I decided to stretch a few thousand more for the new U3.

I started going to some new&used piano dealers for Yamaha and Kawai. Then I read the "Idiot" book and realized all the sales tactics and ploys that were pitched to me. I was very amused (Not a criticism of the fine sales people). I was 99% commited to a Yamaha U3 when I found this forum and a post by Jivemutha on a Yamaha YUS5. I explored the Yamaha YUS5 and a dealer just had one arrive on the floor. I did and A/B between the YUS5 and U3. I bought the YUS5. Please PM me for any questions. Your comments on here will be stalked by local piano dealers if they figure out who you are.

Here's my experience.

I found an age 80+ piano for a good price from a private seller. Had it inspected by a reputable rebuiler before plunking down the cash, then had them rebuild it. I've been playing it for 3 months now and VERY happy with the results.

The patience here was in waiting for the rebuild job to finish and new strings to stablize.

And yes, I first read The Piano Book from cover to cover, then went shopping for new pianos before I had the funds to buy one. I played many many pianos, so I knew what I wanted.

I’ve only been interested in pianos for the last 6 years or so… not very long. In that short time, I’ve come to the conclusion that some pianos age more gracefully than others, but they all age. Even a low mileage used car has some effects of deterioration /degradation from time and the elements itself.

I’m not sure just how to judge or put a mileage meter on a piano to say it will last so-and-so years without needing rebuilding. It all depends on the piano, the environment it was kept in most of its life, how much and how hard it was played, and how well it was cared for.

It is not unheard of for a 10 year old piano to need new hammers or other wear parts. And, it is not unheard of for a 50 year old piano to have pristine original hammers. What really matters is the condition it is currently in. However, unless the piano has been completely (everything that can be replaced) rebuilt, age has a major factor on price.

To me, and keep in mind that I am not an expert on used piano prices, that price is high for the age of the piano, regardless of condition.

Good luck, and keep us informed.

Rick

A near 50 year-old U3 for $3750 seems to be quite high, at least compared to what I've seen around here. So is a 38 year-old for $4500. But condition is paramount in all cases.

Patience is a good thing. So is due diligence. But sometimes taking a leap of faith pays off too.

I gave myself six to twelve months to buy a piano, but ended up with an 11 year-old Czech-made Petrof for a great price, without an tech inspection, after looking for two weeks.

A tech has since seen and tuned it. Everything looks and sounds great. I guess I got lucky.

I'm in the same boat. I've been a casual browser of these wonderful forums and the information is helpful. At first I was looking at 'used' pianos as well, but upon doing research here, reading Larry Fine's "The Piano Book" I decided to hold off. I really had no idea how the dealership network operates, specially with prices.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the 'used' market. It's just best to do you homework first, pick up both of Larry Fine's books and ask questions. I need to get in contact with Rafterman

One problem with old Yamaha verticals is the cotton thread used for the hammer springs. They deteriorate and break. It is an example of age related problems.

Personally, I would rather have a new Hailun than a 20 year old U3. I much prefer the sound profile of the Hailun. The sound of the Yamaha's is so limited in potential. It's a good sound, but less expressive. IMO.

Same as cars... look for a low mileage garage kept gem.

The word "rebuilt" is overused in my opinion. If I had a nickel for every time I have had a customer tell me they had their piano "rebuilt " some years ago, I would be a rich man. The trouble is that most of the time, the hammers were filed and bridal straps replaced. Maybe new damper felts but that is about it. I am especially suspicious when I see a vertical advertised as "rebuilt " simply because they don't carry enough value to warrant more than a restring and a new set of hammers. Buyer beware.

So I went to a local dealer today. They had a selection of used and new pianos around my price range. The Yamaha U3s they had were also around 1968-1972 range but their price was $5995 versus the $4500 I found on Craiglist. Of course they say theirs is restored but I doubt they do much to it. And they do offer a 10-year warranty and full value trade in. I'm not sure how much that is worth either.

Got to try some used Yamaha U1, U2, Kawai 50" and 52" (not sure model). They also let us try some other brands I had never heard of before but have now since read up from the forum Search function. They had us try a Pearl River (forgot to take picture of price tag), Brodmann CE118 ($4990), Brodmann PE121 ($6690), Taylor London TU133 ($5990).

My son liked the last two the best. Not surprisingly they were the most expensive. Hehe. He also played some on this big grand piano and told me he really liked it. Turned out it was some $130k Bechstein. lol

From my untrained ears it seems that the Yamahas and Kawai sound brightest. I had read that term on here but wasn't sure what I meant until I was able to compare it side by side at the store. The Pearl River seems more mellow. And the Brodmann and Taylor seems to have a fuller sound.

Seems like Brodmann's have a pretty good reputation on this site. After researching Brodmanns I see Hailun are supposedly comparable. Unfortunately they are not a Hailun dealer so I will have to go check that out at another time.

What are you guys opinions on a Brodmann versus a used Yamaha? Also, what do you think is the value of a 10-year warranty and a full value trade in? Right now they're $1500 more than what I can find on Craiglist.

Pay attention to the IMO here.

Meaning pay no attention to the opinion, or pay no attention to the modifier "IMO"???

Anyone have an opinion on a Brodmann versus a used Yamaha? Also, what do you think is the value of a 10-year warranty and a full value trade in? Comparing two apparently similar used pianos, is it worth paying $1500 more from a dealer to get those two things?

Full value trade in? Only if you get a good deal TWICE and you know that you want to buy a piano from this particular dealer in the future. A full value trade in limits your buying possibilities (assuming you want to exercise your trade in option.) I wouldn't pay extra for it.
10 year warranty? $1500? Seems to be about 25% of the purchase price. That's a lot to pay for insurance. Others have more experience with this, but my opinion is that as long as you have a good tech check out the instrument to begin with, the things covered by the warranty rarely go wrong anyway. I follow Clark Howard's advice and almost never purchase extra warranty coverage. That being said, a piano from craigslist would have no support at all. But if you have a good tech check it out, there would have to be a LOT of problems to justify $1500 worth of repairs. The question is going to come down to the condition of both pianos. If one is in significantly better shape than the other, it might be worth $1500 more on that measure alone.