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#1852409 - 02/27/12 08:44 AM Ivory II - American Concert D
mitzysman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 290
Not sure if this was discussed before. But I was emailing Synthogy to see if I can just get one of their pianos and not get the whole Ivory II package... and they sent me this link.

http://www.synthogy.com/news/announcements/a2012-0119a.html

supposed to be out by summer.
_________________________
Yamaha P-250 | Galaxy II Pianos | Galaxy Vintage D | The GIANT

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#1852469 - 02/27/12 10:38 AM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: mitzysman]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3900
Loc: North Carolina
That's good news! Galaxy already sells their pianos individually. It's good, I think, that Synthogy will be stepping in that direction.

Perhaps this is the result of market pressure?

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#1852475 - 02/27/12 10:51 AM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: mitzysman]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
This does not signal a change in direction for Synthogy. I see no evidence that they are considering selling the pianos from Ivory II individually. They have simply added a new--and highly anticipated--piano to their offerings. It will be sold separately from the main collection, just as Italian Grand is sold now.

Basically it looks like they intend to compete with Vintage D by offering a sold-separately high quality vintage Steinway. If they didn't require an iLok I'd be all over that.

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#1852573 - 02/27/12 02:23 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: mitzysman]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3900
Loc: North Carolina
It's too bad about their not selling the individual Ivory 2 pianos. I'd would have liked to buy ONLY their updated Ivory Vienna/Bosendorfer. (I have no need for their Steinway or Yamaha or Fazioli.)

I already have a Bosie in Ivory 1.5. It lacks half-pedal, but it sounds better than the Galaxy Vienna/Bosendorfer. So it might be nice to have the Ivory 2 Bosie ... presumably WITH half-pedal. But I guess that won't be available without buying the full set.

Anyway ... as you say, the Ilok is an impediment, so perhaps the whole point is moot.

As I recall, our tastes are similar with respect to the Galaxy Vintage D. So I wonder: Do you have any thoughts about getting the Synthogy American D? I'd like to know how it compares to the Vintage D.

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#1852617 - 02/27/12 04:12 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: MacMacMac]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
As I recall, our tastes are similar with respect to the Galaxy Vintage D. So I wonder: Do you have any thoughts about getting the Synthogy American D? I'd like to know how it compares to the Vintage D.


I can't tell if you are addressing this question to me or the OP, so I'll just assume it's me. smile

My expectation is that Vintage D and the American D will have essentially the same character. I find the PMI Old Lady sounds a lot like Vintage D, it just lacks a lot of functionality. Probably American D will be similar. I do like the sound of a vintage Steinway. I actually have a hard time telling apart the many new steinway software pianos (Garritan, Ivory, Galaxy, Native Instruments, etc) when just listening to them. A tweak to the settings can make more difference than there is between the original timbre of these pianos.

Some people think American and European Steinways sound quite different from each other. I guess this will be a test case. I wish there were some available clips or someone already owned it and could make some for us.

Just as Vintage D is newer and in some ways better than the main Galaxy pianos, I am expecting that American D will be newer and better than Ivory II, and that's saying something. It apparently has 20 velocity layers, up from 18 in Italian Grand. If they keep stepping up their game, it could be quite the piano.

Personally I like Steinway better than Bosendorfer or Fazioli, and I like vintage steinway sounds better than new ones, so if I didn't own a software piano, I would be quite excited for it.

Since I already own and like Vintage D, and since I have an issue with Synthogy and their iLok requirement, I will not be buying it. Otherwise I would.

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#1852629 - 02/27/12 04:39 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: gvfarns]
mitzysman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 290
as for the VST steinways that I've tried. tested at try-sound.com

I think I like them in this order

Galaxy Vintage D
Ivory II German D
Galaxy Steinway

between Ivory and Galaxy's "modern" Steinway sounds i think the Ivory is nicer sounding.
_________________________
Yamaha P-250 | Galaxy II Pianos | Galaxy Vintage D | The GIANT

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#1852660 - 02/27/12 05:38 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: gvfarns]
Macy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 619
What is the issue with the iLok? I've never had any problems.
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#1852674 - 02/27/12 05:53 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: mitzysman]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
It's an annoying expense and hassle with no added value for the consumer. The point of getting a single piano separately is to avoid having to lay out a ton of money. If you have to have buy an iLok separately at surprisingly high cost even if you only have a single VST, you can't achieve that. And if you want to use it on more than one computer, you have to take the iLok with you and not lose or break it, and it always sucks up a USB port, wherever you go, and sticks out, gets in the way, and looks ugly.

We've gotten into big discussions about the iLok. Some people don't care one way or the other and others (like me) hate the whole concept and even avoid it on principle. If we start talking about it too much, we can easily derail this thread, which I don't want to do. But I think we can all agree it's not a plus. It's either neutral or negative, especially for people who only want one VST.

If you own lots and lots of software that requires it, the added cost and annoyance is small on the margin.

Some people have had technical problems with it as well (check google for reviews), but that's not my fundamental beef. The alternative is the more trouble-free CD key methodology employed by Galaxy, PianoTeq, and others. Actually, it's the methodology employed by almost all software these days. Using hardware methods to forceably prevent piracy (especially at the consumer's cost) is so old-economy.

Basically the iLok is an affront to humanity.


Edited by gvfarns (02/27/12 06:17 PM)

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#1852691 - 02/27/12 06:27 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: gvfarns]
Macy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 619
Thanks for the reply. I'm in the category that has multiple VSTs, use them all at one location on one computer, consider the price of the iLok insignificant compared to my other VST related equipment (keyboard and computer), never physically see the iLok, and it has always worked flawlessly for me. So it's fine with me. But I fully understand how your points could apply to other people.
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#1852715 - 02/27/12 07:09 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: gvfarns]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
...and sticks out, gets in the way, and looks ugly.

You know, the new iLok is much smaller and sleek than the old goofy key-looking thing... just sayin'. smile

But I'm with you on the fact that they're really stupid.

Curt

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#1852723 - 02/27/12 07:24 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: Macy]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Macy
What is the issue with the iLok? I've never had any problems.


At one point there were conflicts between Cubase and iLock. I don't know if that has been resolved or not, but could be an issue if you're a Cubase user.
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1852738 - 02/27/12 08:09 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: mitzysman]
lgarcia Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Chicago, Illinois USA
Fact: there are already too many model D's to choose. One more D, on my report card. It is time to move up the grade and make it a B, like Baldwin which is one of many acoustic models that need to be sampled. I'm just a consumer not a technician. If I had the money and the knowledge I've probably would of done it. I don't have a business degree but if there is a company out there that reviews the comments made on this forums may look into this and see if it a promising idea.

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#1852902 - 02/28/12 02:48 AM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: lgarcia]
Gigantoad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
Originally Posted By: lgarcia
Fact: there are already too many model D's to choose. One more D, on my report card. It is time to move up the grade and make it a B, like Baldwin which is one of many acoustic models that need to be sampled. I'm just a consumer not a technician. If I had the money and the knowledge I've probably would of done it. I don't have a business degree but if there is a company out there that reviews the comments made on this forums may look into this and see if it a promising idea.


That is true, a little more variety wouldn't hurt. Lots of people seem to be in love with Steingraeber for example, why not sample one of these for a change?

I can only assume that the market isn't big enough, just as the market for the real instruments seems to be really small compared to Steinway/Bösendorfer/Yamaha. That's unfortunate.

As for iLok: I have Ivory II so I needed one. Now that I got one I don't mind it too much, but I can perfectly understand people who refuse to buy products utilizing it. Imagine every software company would use their own dongle type protection, we'd need huge USB hubs just to connect all of them. It's an outdated and inconvenient technology that should be banned.

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#1852929 - 02/28/12 05:40 AM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: lgarcia]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Originally Posted By: lgarcia
Fact: there are already too many model D's to choose. One more D, on my report card. It is time to move up the grade and make it a B.

This is exactly what Garritan has abandoned their D for! Now I wish I could say "hold tight" or "it's coming soon" because I can't. Considering that we've been waiting over TWO YEARS for the promised update to their Steinway D, I'm not even looking for this release. It happens if, and when, it happens.

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#1852944 - 02/28/12 06:51 AM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: MacMacMac]
vegasE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 226
Loc: Sydney, AU
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
like to know how it compares to the Vintage D.

Keen to know how this compares to the VinD as well.
Synthogy could give some teaser demos.

Though the ilok thing will probably kill it for me too. It's an outdated anti-trust device that went by the way of the floppy disk drive.

The VinD definately has my ear at the moment - all but ready to press the button to purchase it. Prefer the sound of it to the "regular" Steinways.

Originally Posted By: Gigantoad
I can only assume that the market isn't big enough, just as the market for the real instruments seems to be really small compared to Steinway/Bösendorfer/Yamaha. That's unfortunate.

Acoustic Samples has some other pianos including a gorgeous sounding Kawai EX Pro and an old Pleyel. They are cheaper than the VinD and Italian Grand but with 2 issues: ilok and no half/repedal function (EX Pro)and no prospect of a future upgrade.

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#1853036 - 02/28/12 10:16 AM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: vegasE]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: vegasE
Acoustic Samples has some other pianos including a gorgeous sounding Kawai EX Pro and an old Pleyel. They are cheaper than the VinD and Italian Grand but with 2 issues: ilok and no half/repedal function (EX Pro)and no prospect of a future upgrade.


Also comparatively few layers. IIRC they were saying they wanted to go all out and do 5 layers for the Kawai. That's actually an embarrassment for a software piano...some onboard sounds have more velocity layers than that.

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#1853247 - 02/28/12 05:11 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: gvfarns]
vegasE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 226
Loc: Sydney, AU
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Also comparatively few layers. IIRC they were saying they wanted to go all out and do 5 layers for the Kawai. That's actually an embarrassment for a software piano...some onboard sounds have more velocity layers than that.


Sort of a half-assed atempt. I suppose my point was more about the point of difference with their piano not being a Steinway/Bosendorfer/Yamaha.

Wondering if there will be a sampled set of the big aussie?

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#1853276 - 02/28/12 05:52 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: mitzysman]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
I do admit I'd be interested in more brands, as a way to study the different timbres of the various piano makers, if nothing else.

People often ask (in the acoustic forum, at least) for others to describe the different timbres of the various piano brands, but it's very difficult to do so with words or to find recordings that are comparable. Software pianos kind of level the playing field. The differences in the way they are recorded and put together are not large compared to the differences between the brands. When I first was trying out software pianos I had a lot of fun going from Steinway to Bosendorfer to Yamaha to Bechstein to Fazioli and back just experimenting with the different pianos. I would have liked to have tried a Kawai, a Hailun, and one of each of the many European manufacturers as well.

My interest in uprights and smaller grands is limited, though, I admit.

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#1937044 - 08/03/12 06:33 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: mitzysman]
Tack Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 66
Loc: Canada
I've been waiting for this since they announced it in January, but it's really been crickets from Synthogy since their press release.

Finally we have a teaser video. Still difficult to gauge what playing it will be like, but I'm encouraged by the mention that it has the longest sustain of any of the Synthogy pianos.

Now looking forward to proper demos and, of course, actually playing it. I am hoping it will displace the buggy Galaxy Vintage D as my preferred piano.

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#1937067 - 08/03/12 07:49 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: gvfarns]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1951
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
If they didn't require an iLok I'd be all over that.


Ditto.

I just will not consider it as long as the ILok is required.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#1937074 - 08/03/12 08:16 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: mitzysman]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2231
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I've already got an iLok and I don't mind it at all. I really like the sound of this piano!

Greg.
p.s (I just wish they'd all use the SAME lock - I never want to have to have more than one lock)

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#1937077 - 08/03/12 08:26 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: mitzysman]
kippesc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 407
Loc: United States
From the video: "Being an older instrument, it has probably the longest sustain of any of the Synthogy pianos." From the endless discussions elsewhere on PW concerning the effects of age on soundboards and sustain, I think that statement is a non sequitur. Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to the release of this piano.
_________________________
Steinway B
Yamaha AvantGrand N2
Roland RD-700NX

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#1937387 - 08/04/12 05:21 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: mitzysman]
Gigantoad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
I always disliked iLok for obvious reasons. Once I had one though, I wondered why I ever made such a fuzz about it. It's so cheap and I just keep it plugged in at all times, it's no hassle at all.

So if that minor annoyance is the only thing keeping you from using an excellent product like Ivory, you might wanna reconsider and get over these principles that really are rather silly. Take it from someone who's been there.

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#1937419 - 08/04/12 07:00 PM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: mitzysman]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 542
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
wow. really sounded terrific. i guess i'll be parting with another 200 bucks. i can do without the bos and the yamaha is just OK on the ivory 2 package. The German D is terrific and this sounds better. But i thought the same thing listening to demos for the Italian and now that i have it... not so great.

But i really like the cantabile platform and the way the Ivory 2 pianos play. best connectivity with a software piano i've experienced. its too bad the vintage D isn't on the ivory/cantabile player.

so when's it hitting the market?
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1937563 - 08/05/12 01:41 AM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: bfb]
kippesc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 407
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: bfb
so when's it hitting the market?

On July 23, Ilio sales and tech support, responding to an email in which I asked this question, wrote to me as follows:

"American Concert D is estimated to be ready by the end of August!"
_________________________
Steinway B
Yamaha AvantGrand N2
Roland RD-700NX

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#1938037 - 08/06/12 07:17 AM Re: Ivory II - American Concert D [Re: kippesc]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 542
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: kippesc
Originally Posted By: bfb
so when's it hitting the market?

On July 23, Ilio sales and tech support, responding to an email in which I asked this question, wrote to me as follows:

"American Concert D is estimated to be ready by the end of August!"


thanks!

what are the odds that you will have bugs to deal with if you buy a sample piano immediately upon release. i'm usually later to the party and there have already been one or two updates to clean up any software issues....but i'm thinking since this is the 5th piano in this ivory 2 package it ought to be reasonably ready-for-prime-time immediately.



Edited by bfb (08/06/12 08:37 AM)
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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