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#1852903 - 02/28/12 02:57 AM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: slpiano]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
BTW My reference book insists that the Chopin Prelude 28-6 is the true Raindrop Prelude ... and not 28-15 ... I tend to agree.

The RH blocky treble provides the rhythmic patter of the rain while the LH capers about in a reflective melody.

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#1852906 - 02/28/12 03:05 AM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: btb]
slpiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/21/12
Posts: 37
Loc: Qc, Canada
Originally Posted By: btb
BTW My reference book insists that the Chopin Prelude 28-6 is the true Raindrop Prelude ... and not 28-15 ... I tend to agree.

The RH blocky treble provides the rhythmic patter of the rain while the LH capers about in a reflective melody.



Chopin would prolly disagree with both anyways as i read he dislike ppl giving names to his pieces! (Raindrop, minute waltz, Aeolian harp, etc...). Just wrote it cause not everyone knows what op.28 no.15 refers to, but everyone knows raindrop prelude!

/bed


Edited by slpiano (02/28/12 03:08 AM)

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#1852912 - 02/28/12 03:24 AM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: slpiano]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
The chappie recommending John Field deserves to be clapped in irons ... the boozy Irishman was an envious 3rd rater compared to Chopin ... referring to Fred as “just the composer of mazurkas”.

Field was 20 years older than Chopin ... and although being first with the nocturne format ... was merely a salesman in the London warehouse of Musio Clementi ...
impressing customers with finger dexterity ... rippling across the piano keys in chromatic and scalar flourishes.

Chopin was 17 when he first chanced on the Nocturne format.

Anybody who has played a Chopin Nocturne
will know who was champ ... and who was the chump.

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#1852941 - 02/28/12 06:46 AM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: slpiano]
jdw Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/04/11
Posts: 799
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
The easiest Beethoven I know of is a little piece called La Marmotte. It's very quick and simple but lovely; I think a Chopin lover would like it. I found this in the Joy of Beethoven book, a nice collection that includes Für Elise and I think the 2d movement Pathetique as well.
_________________________
1989 Baldwin R

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#1852957 - 02/28/12 07:39 AM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: BruceD]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4974
Loc: boston north
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: lilylady
Schumann and Schubert!

Schumann:[...]Windmung (a bit hard)

[...]Schubert:[...]Standchen

[...]


You're giving the impression in your list that Schumann's "Widmung" and Schubert's "Ständchen" are piano pieces. They are not; they are both original songs for voice and piano. That said, Liszt arranged Schumann's "Widmung" and both of Schubert's "Ständchen" for piano solo.

Regards,


Well, of course the Liszt transcriptions were meant!

but thanks for clarifying for the OP.
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1852985 - 02/28/12 08:47 AM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: slpiano]
fj_s Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Singapore
_________________________
In progress

Mozart: Sonata in D Major, k576
Chopin: Polonaise in A-flat major, Op 53
Berg: Sonata in B minor, Op 1
Bach: Partita in C Minor, BWV 826

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#1853177 - 02/28/12 02:23 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: btb]
Vinn Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 18
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted By: btb
The chappie recommending John Field deserves to be clapped in irons ... the boozy Irishman was an envious 3rd rater compared to Chopin ... referring to Fred as “just the composer of mazurkas”.

Field was 20 years older than Chopin ... and although being first with the nocturne format ... was merely a salesman in the London warehouse of Musio Clementi ...
impressing customers with finger dexterity ... rippling across the piano keys in chromatic and scalar flourishes.

Chopin was 17 when he first chanced on the Nocturne format.

Anybody who has played a Chopin Nocturne
will know who was champ ... and who was the chump.



That's rather harsh. Several of the Field Nocturnes are excellent and they were loved by Chopin himself. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean this guy will feel the same.

While I agree overall Chopin's were better there are few Field Nocturnes that surpass some of the "lesser" Chopin Nocturnes.

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#1853179 - 02/28/12 02:25 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: fj_s]
Margareth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 99
Loc: Estonia
Some very easy Beethoven(easiest to hardest) I've played:

Sonatina in G major
Six Ecossaises WoO83
Six Variations on "Nel cor piu non mi sento", WoO70

I'm the opposite - I love Bach, Beethoven and Mozart and haven't fallen in love like that with Chopin but I'm grade 6/7 so hopefully I'm getting there smile
_________________________
Attitude is everything.

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#1853191 - 02/28/12 03:07 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: RonaldSteinway]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6033
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: slpiano



Very interesting pieces right there!!! I particularly like the Beethoven one (Sonata no.8 2nd movement for those who didnt click the link). With a bit of work i guess i could manage that. Its probably more tricky than it looks and sounds tho haha.


Actually the second movement of Opus 13 is no more difficult than the pieces you currently play....and it is an excellent work to have in your repertoire.


To me, the voicing of 2nd of Pathetique is difficult. At the beginning, both bass and top melody must be stressed. Then the tension etc are also difficult, it is definitely not for beginner.



The OP isn't really a beginner.
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1853286 - 02/28/12 06:20 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: btb]
Dachshund Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/19/11
Posts: 73
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: btb
The chappie recommending John Field deserves to be clapped in irons ... the boozy Irishman was an envious 3rd rater compared to Chopin ... referring to Fred as “just the composer of mazurkas”.

Field was 20 years older than Chopin ... and although being first with the nocturne format ... was merely a salesman in the London warehouse of Musio Clementi ...
impressing customers with finger dexterity ... rippling across the piano keys in chromatic and scalar flourishes.

Chopin was 17 when he first chanced on the Nocturne format.

Anybody who has played a Chopin Nocturne
will know who was champ ... and who was the chump.


Yes btb, we all get it. You think the Chopin Nocturnes are better than Field's, and I honestly agree with you. But the OP requests repertoire that is not by Chopin, and anyways, I am entitled to my own opinion on the Field Nocturnes, as are you. Therefore, comments such as "The chappie recommending John Field deserves to be clapped in irons" are immature and unnecessary.

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#1853294 - 02/28/12 06:34 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: btb]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: btb


Field was 20 years older than Chopin ... and although being first with the nocturne format ... was merely a salesman in the London warehouse of Musio Clementi ...
impressing customers with finger dexterity ... rippling across the piano keys in chromatic and scalar flourishes.



Field, was actually quite a phenomenal, famous and sought after pianist. He wasn't just a salesman for Clementi...he was his star student. He is, of course, best known for the nocturne, but his influence on a generation of composers was strong. Read the preface to the Liszt edition of the Field nocturnes written by the editor himself and tell me if you think Liszt thought of Field as a mere salesman.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1853430 - 02/28/12 11:18 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: slpiano]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
"Field, was actually quite a phenomenal, famous and sought after pianist."

Bosh! stores ... but glad you added the conditional "quite".

The Russians seemed to like his twiddily playing and he ended up in St. Petersburg.

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#1853512 - 02/29/12 04:02 AM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: slpiano]
Franz Beebert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 354
I would not recommend the nocturnes by John Field and I a not surprised that Liszt thought Field was good or whatever, as I find both there music more banal and shallow than pretty much all other classical composers.. Anyway, I think OP should try on some Schubert if he likes Chopin. To like Chopin often means that one appreciate great melodies and harmonies, and the trues master of melodies and harmonies is Franz Schubert.

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#1853516 - 02/29/12 04:17 AM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: btb]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: btb
"Field, was actually quite a phenomenal, famous and sought after pianist."

Bosh! stores ... but glad you added the conditional "quite".

The Russians seemed to like his twiddily playing and he ended up in St. Peterburg.


Are you saying you don't agree?

He didn't just "end up" in St. Petersburg. Clementi, took Field, to Paris, Vienna, and St. Petersburg, when Field was about 20 and it was his choice to stay when Clementi left. Though clearly not Russian, he was one of the founders of what we call the "Russian school".
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1853521 - 02/29/12 04:43 AM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: slpiano]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
We all know the story stores ... if you agree that Field was one of the founders of the
Russian school ... and that he stayed on at St. Petersburg (a beautiful city) ... it might just follow that he kicked the bucket
there when his liver packed in (all the booze).

PS It was much later that Field coached over to Russia and not when he was a youthful 20.

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#1853676 - 02/29/12 11:48 AM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: btb]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6033
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: btb

PS It was much later that Field coached over to Russia and not when he was a youthful 20.


Every source I've found states that Field was born in 1782 and was living in St. Petersburg by mid-1803.

While I've heard a few of his compositions over the years - and even own a volume of his Nocturnes - I always thought Field lived and worked primarily in the British Isles throughout his entire lifetime....probably because he is referred to as an "Irish" composer. Oh well......now I know better. grin
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1853870 - 02/29/12 06:24 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: slpiano]
Lluís Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 313
Loc: Barcelona,Spain, European Unio...
Try this composers: Romantic era pianists some of them looks a little bit "Chopinesque"

· J Field
· I Moscheles
· M. Glinka http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaAFlSPrH0cv
· Kalkbrenner
· C.V. Alkan
· Edmond Weber
· Lefébure Wély: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqhMjupyBoo
· Galos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkkL6q76QxM&feature=relmfu


Edited by Lluís (02/29/12 06:28 PM)
_________________________
1942 Challen Baby Grand Piano

1855 Pleyel Pianino (Restoring -> www.pleyelrestoration.blogspot.com )

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#1853884 - 02/29/12 07:08 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: carey]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: btb

PS It was much later that Field coached over to Russia and not when he was a youthful 20.


Every source I've found states that Field was born in 1782 and was living in St. Petersburg by mid-1803.

While I've heard a few of his compositions over the years - and even own a volume of his Nocturnes - I always thought Field lived and worked primarily in the British Isles throughout his entire lifetime....probably because he is referred to as an "Irish" composer. Oh well......now I know better. grin



You're exactly right, carey. He was in St. Pete at the onset of winter 1802, which would make him...hmmm 20. Maybe math isn't btb's strong point. =p
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1853928 - 02/29/12 08:55 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: slpiano]
DadAgain Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 365
Loc: Brisbane, QLD
If you're going to work on any Bach I find it helps to think of it as a technical study - its there to excercise your fingers and brain - without troubling the soul. Its dull and uninspiring - but beats playing scales....

I have been known to use the odd P&F as warm up excercises before playing *real* music!

:-p


Edited by DadAgain (02/29/12 08:56 PM)
_________________________
Parent....
Orchestral Viola player (stictly amateur)....
Hack Pianist.... (faded skills from glory days 20 yrs ago)
Vague Guitar & Bass player.... (former minor income stream 15 yrs ago)
Former conductor... (been a long time since I was set loose with a magic wand!)

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#1853929 - 02/29/12 08:56 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: slpiano]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6035
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Bach is dull and uninspiring? Which Bach are you playing? I'm playing J.S. Bach.

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#1853931 - 02/29/12 09:00 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: Orange Soda King]
DadAgain Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 365
Loc: Brisbane, QLD
Quote:
Bach is dull and uninspiring? Which Bach are you playing? I'm playing J.S. Bach.


This is on my list at present... might turn some folks moist with joy, but to me it might as well be a page of elegant algeraic manipulation - perhaps clever, sometimes potentialy interesting, but all 'brain' and no 'heart'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWOQVPtIo_E

(..and btw crickey he plays that fugue fast!)


Edited by DadAgain (02/29/12 09:01 PM)
_________________________
Parent....
Orchestral Viola player (stictly amateur)....
Hack Pianist.... (faded skills from glory days 20 yrs ago)
Vague Guitar & Bass player.... (former minor income stream 15 yrs ago)
Former conductor... (been a long time since I was set loose with a magic wand!)

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#1853951 - 02/29/12 10:00 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: Orange Soda King]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Bach is dull and uninspiring? Which Bach are you playing? I'm playing J.S. Bach.

He's second rate.
Here's the Bach we all should be playing:

_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1853976 - 02/29/12 10:46 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: DadAgain]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6033
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: DadAgain
Quote:
Bach is dull and uninspiring? Which Bach are you playing? I'm playing J.S. Bach.


This is on my list at present... might turn some folks moist with joy, but to me it might as well be a page of elegant algeraic manipulation - perhaps clever, sometimes potentialy interesting, but all 'brain' and no 'heart'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWOQVPtIo_E

(..and btw crickey he plays that fugue fast!)


Sure - all "brain" no "heart" - just like this one ......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWH-mJMmano

Gimme a break.
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1853979 - 02/29/12 11:01 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: DadAgain]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5834
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: DadAgain
- perhaps clever, sometimes potentialy interesting, but all 'brain' and no 'heart'.
I have observed that many people who don't warm to Bach have a view that the only way for music to have "heart" is for it to have been written in the 19th century.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1853986 - 02/29/12 11:24 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: slpiano]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
i was so in love with Chopin.. the etudes, waltzes, nocturnes and preludes. I had to take a 10 year break, because his music was so very soulful.. I'd just cry constantly while practicing.. it just got to be too much.. (not so much for the etudes) but the nocturnes and preludes.. omgosh
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1853988 - 02/29/12 11:25 PM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: currawong]
DadAgain Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 365
Loc: Brisbane, QLD
Quote:
...I have observed that many people who don't warm to Bach have a view that the only way for music to have "heart" is for it to have been written in the 19th century.


Plenty of 20th and 21st century music seems to do it for me -
but yes, I'll take your point - anything pre about 1780 struggles to 'communicate' in my book! laugh
_________________________
Parent....
Orchestral Viola player (stictly amateur)....
Hack Pianist.... (faded skills from glory days 20 yrs ago)
Vague Guitar & Bass player.... (former minor income stream 15 yrs ago)
Former conductor... (been a long time since I was set loose with a magic wand!)

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#1854056 - 03/01/12 04:05 AM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: DadAgain]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: DadAgain
If you're going to work on any Bach I find it helps to think of it as a technical study - its there to excercise your fingers and brain - without troubling the soul. Its dull and uninspiring - but beats playing scales....

I have been known to use the odd P&F as warm up excercises before playing *real* music!

:-p


Wow. I am SOOOOOOOOOO holding my tongue on this one!!!! It's not easy to do either! You're absolutely at the very pinnacle of my not to be taken seriously list, DA.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1854057 - 03/01/12 04:07 AM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: DadAgain]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: DadAgain
anything pre about 1780 struggles to 'communicate' in my book! laugh


It's not the music (or its composer) that struggles to communicate...the problem lies with you.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1854063 - 03/01/12 04:18 AM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: slpiano]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3885
Loc: New York
carey
So many thanks for the Yudina link. What a splendid way to start the day / end the night. Debating whether I should get my lazy self to the piano or comfort my heart with more of Yudina's Bach.
dad again, you may very well land up in Purgatory for that blasphemous tirade. Just sayin. smile

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#1854073 - 03/01/12 04:39 AM Re: Take me away from Chopin pieces!!! [Re: Andromaque]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7423
Originally Posted By: Andromaque


dad again, you may very well land up in Purgatory for that blasphemous tirade. Just sayin. smile


He already is in some horrible place, it seems to me.

I really don't understand why overt "emotion" is the sole gauge of musical value for some people. Don't they have any sense of music having value simply for being beautiful or intriguing? Or for conveying the joy and excitement of sheer creativity?

There are lots of analogies with natural phenomena, I think, which have no intrinsic "emotion" at all, but can nonetheless be deeply satisfying to contemplate for us humans. An obvious example is how many of us can be gobsmacked by a spectacular sunset, even though there is no emotional content in it at all. I think music can operate on us in a similar way.

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