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Topic Options
#1863061 - 03/16/12 11:46 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3866
The cost to have a 2 day council must be tremendous. Mailing documents, room rental, hotel rooms, missed income by those who attend, chapter reimbursements, AV equipment, etc. In this economy, is the cost of council prudent?

Council does not fairly represent the members of the PTG. Chapters who do not send a delegate are not represented. Associates are not represented. The staff, who hear more about the PTG than anyone, are not represented.

The council system of decision making is too slow for this day and age.

Three reasons to dissolve council and give all members equal opportunity, regardless of title.

_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






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#1863320 - 03/16/12 07:09 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 401
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Sorry about that OperaTenor. I really didn't mean to be rude. I do think it would be an interesting post to ask. The reason I said something was that you directed your question to two RPT's and they're not supposed to be in the conversation. Anyway, I have tinnitus also but I tune with an ETD (although I tune the unison's by ear) so it's never been issue for me. A couple of years ago I had my hearing checked and it was excellent so maybe if I tuned by ear it wouldn't be an issue anyway. The only problem now is that when I pretend I can't hear my wife I have no excuse wink.
_________________________
Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com

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#1863337 - 03/16/12 07:45 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2381
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
No worries, TG. I have ~5% gone in the upper reaches in both ears. I was given Gentimycin(sp?) in 1992, and the tinnitus was a side-effect.

I'm a stodge, and I have thus far resisted using an ETD, although I did use the Cleartune app on my iPhone to check myself when I was learning the new method.

Still sitting on the fence about the PTG, but the MPT is looking kinda interesting...
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#1863753 - 03/17/12 04:06 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2402
Loc: Olympia, WA
There has been another discussion taking place on the PTG list that is only open to members. We've been discussing the pros and cons of Associate members being full voting members and what effect it might have on the guild.

Some say that this idea is dangerous for the guild and could lead to a decline in standards.

Others feel that it would boost membership and enthusiasm. It is also felt that if voting rights were separated from credentialing that it would make it easier to add more credentials.

Other issues under discussion include the idea of opening up testing to non-members. The National Music Teachers Association does this very thing with their "Nationally Certified Teacher of Music (NCTM)" certification. Even non-members of MTNA can become NCTMs.

Would any non-members here be interested in taking the PTG exams if you could advertise it? Would you be willing to complete a minimal ammount of continuing education points and a modest annual fee in order to maintain your certification? This is how the MTNA does it. Here's a link to their re-certification rules:

http://www.mtnacertification.org/renewal/renewal-activities/

The fee for members to maintain their certification is $15 per year. For non-members it is $20.

There is some concern that if the exams are opened up to non-members that there would be less incentive to join. Do you think this is true?
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#1863981 - 03/18/12 03:31 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1707
Loc: London, England
How usual is it for an examining body to insist on continuing paid membership in order to retain that qualification?

Speaking as someone who has never advertised, Can anybody, for example, advertise "fully qualified by the piano technicians guild" or, "former fully qualified member" without retaining membership?

In modern society, where it is considered crass to flaunt ones attainments, how effective is 'RPT' in getting a table in a good restaurant?
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1864069 - 03/18/12 10:22 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rxd]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2373
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Originally Posted By: rxd
How usual is it for an examining body to insist on continuing paid membership in order to retain that qualification?

Speaking as someone who has never advertised, Can anybody, for example, advertise "fully qualified by the piano technicians guild" or, "former fully qualified member" without retaining membership?

In modern society, where it is considered crass to flaunt ones attainments, how effective is 'RPT' in getting a table in a good restaurant?


I beleive modern society has gone in the other direction rxd. It was once crass or impolite to flaunt ones achievements, looked at as the same as bragging. Not so any more. In this day and age the motto "toot your own horn and toot it loudly" applies because the competition has lost that modicum of respect for peers to some degree, they will not readily toot it for you, as in the old days. Business managers are being taught the same thing now. This "advancement" still rubs some old timers the wrong way.


Edited by Emmery (03/18/12 10:23 AM)
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

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#1864085 - 03/18/12 10:59 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1968
Loc: Philadelphia area
Jim, You may want to talk to Loren or Rick about the MPT.

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#1864093 - 03/18/12 11:14 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: Dave B]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2373
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Does anyone know what happened to the Philidelphia PTG chapters efforts back in 2006 to create a "Friend of the Guild" status in the PTG?

http://www.phillytuners.com/councilpage.html
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

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#1864095 - 03/18/12 11:17 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 401
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Quote:
Some say that this idea is dangerous for the guild and could lead to a decline in standards.


I'm sure that that would happen because anything that deviates from "the standard", even if it is a good change, is considered "dangerous". For example, many techs, including myself, are using CA glue a lot especially to tighten up loose pins. Is this good or bad? There's lot's of disagreement there. This is certainly not acceptable by PTG standards so it would be considered "dangerous".
_________________________
Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com

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#1864134 - 03/18/12 12:24 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: That Guy]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2402
Loc: Olympia, WA
I want to step in hear briefly and clarify. I first read about CA in pinblocks in the mid 90's on the PTG pianotech list. It continues to come up from time to time and is endorsed by many RPT members.

The guild itself rarely takes a stand on a particular procedure or technique. The exams come the closest to this but leave a large amount uncovered. Experts within PTG disagree on things on a regular basis.

Originally Posted By: That Guy
Quote:
Some say that this idea is dangerous for the guild and could lead to a decline in standards.


I'm sure that that would happen because anything that deviates from "the standard", even if it is a good change, is considered "dangerous". For example, many techs, including myself, are using CA glue a lot especially to tighten up loose pins. Is this good or bad? There's lot's of disagreement there. This is certainly not acceptable by PTG standards so it would be considered "dangerous".
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#1864176 - 03/18/12 01:52 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: Emmery]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1707
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: Emmery
Originally Posted By: rxd
How usual is it for an examining body to insist on continuing paid membership in order to retain that qualification?

Speaking as someone who has never advertised, Can anybody, for example, advertise "fully qualified by the piano technicians guild" or, "former fully qualified member" without retaining membership?

In modern society, where it is considered crass to flaunt ones attainments, how effective is 'RPT' in getting a table in a good restaurant?


I beleive modern society has gone in the other direction rxd. It was once crass or impolite to flaunt ones achievements, looked at as the same as bragging. Not so any more. In this day and age the motto "toot your own horn and toot it loudly" applies because the competition has lost that modicum of respect for peers to some degree, they will not readily toot it for you, as in the old days. Business managers are being taught the same thing now. This "advancement" still rubs some old timers the wrong way.


I have seen glimmers of the old standards returning but I think, in general you are right.

There are those who respond to crass advertising but that's not the class of work I pursue.

I feel very fortunate to have spent the better part of my working life in the piano industry and always attached, however loosely, to a piano retail company.

Any family, these days, that purchases a real piano from new is a cut above the rest to begin with so my reference point is not the norm.

I have also always 'tithed' 10% or so of my work to other technicians in the area I happen to cover. Admittedly, I refer aspects of the job that I don't particularly enjoy!. This comes back 10 fold in so many different ways.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1864251 - 03/18/12 04:28 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 401
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Quote:
The guild itself rarely takes a stand on a particular procedure or technique. The exams come the closest to this but leave a large amount uncovered. Experts within PTG disagree on things on a regular basis.


Thanks for the clarification. Yes, you're right. There's an RPT in our state that talked about the virtues of CA glue and then another that questions it every time it's brought up. Obviously he doesn't want to use it and that's okay. I use it all the time and have saved old pianos that otherwise would probably be in the land fill. I get a big kick out of that!

Along those lines, as I think about the PTG it's more the unspoken expectations that bother me (because of my own insecurity I'm sure) than the written out rules. There are certain things that in my mind make no difference how you do them just so you get them done. Example: I've done some mentoring with a local, very respected, RPT and as we were trying to do some aural tuning he began to correct me on my hammer technique. Even on an upright he holds the hammer like you do on a grand except at the 12 o'clock position. That seems very uncomfortable to me and besides that's not what is taught in the Reblitz book. He didn't believe me so since I had my book with me I showed him the photo. He was surprised and said that he wasn't taught that way but if I wanted to do it that way he guessed it was okay. Now - that has absolutely nothing to do with the PTG as an organization, it's really my problem. But it was various things similar to that that finally made me feel it just wasn't worth the angst to be a member. There's nothing the PTG can do about that, it's just personal interactions between people. Even in this forum I'm hesitant to talk about some of the techniques I use for fear that someone will say, "What? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! No self respecting piano tuner would ever do that!" Again, my own problem.
_________________________
Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com

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#1864294 - 03/18/12 06:17 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
rbstewert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/12
Posts: 51
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Scott, please keep posting your techniques. For every one person that says "that's dumb," there will be many (like me) that may find it useful. Or better yet, they might be able improve on that idea and come up with something even better.

My perception of the PTG (as a non-member): an organization with standards for proficiency and accomplishment in piano tuning and repair. My perception is that, as a group, they would like to increase the credibility of their services and members to the general public.

Are they interested in promoting new members? In my opinion, no. It's exactly as Harvey Roehl described in the Preface of Reblitz's book. "Some elements of the trade have tried to keep it mysterious so those active in the field would somehow best secure their own employment." It's like the world is flooded with piano tuners.

I may be totally wrong, but I believe the world is more flooded with out-of-tune and poorly serviced pianos.

Probably the biggest area for improvement, in my opinion, is the promotion/education for the need of piano maintenance. Everybody knows what piano "tuning" is. No one knows what regulation and voicing is. This may sound oversimplified, but if we go to the mall and ask 100 people, how many do you think will know? Another way to look at: let's put two identical pianos in the same mall, (no brand name on it, both tuned), one voiced & regulated nicely, the other NOT! Have the same 100 people play (or listen). Which piano do you think they will say is "better?"

Over the years, I've belonged to various professional organizations, none of which were free of politics or actions that pleased some and angered others. Thank you, Ryan, for presenting this topic. I believe somewhere in here will be at least one good idea that makes it to the top and effects change.

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#1864634 - 03/19/12 10:16 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 401
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Thanks for your encouragement rb. I'll push ahead!
_________________________
Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com

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#1864639 - 03/19/12 10:32 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: That Guy]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4936
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Originally Posted By: That Guy
.....

Even in this forum I'm hesitant to talk about some of the techniques I use for fear that someone will say, "What? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! No self respecting piano tuner would ever do that!" Again, my own problem.


I feel your pain!
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1864649 - 03/19/12 10:48 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 401
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Thanks Jeff. I had no idea there were others that felt the same.
_________________________
Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com

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#1864656 - 03/19/12 11:01 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: UnrightTooner]
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3327
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner
Originally Posted By: That Guy
.....

Even in this forum I'm hesitant to talk about some of the techniques I use for fear that someone will say, "What? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! No self respecting piano tuner would ever do that!" Again, my own problem.


I feel your pain!


I have definately observed technicians who were extremely aggressive and dismissive about criticizing techniques other than their own. Unfortunately, right or wrong, if someone comes accross as confidant enough with this attitude, it will definately have an influence on someone less sure of themselves, and it also certainly dissuades people from having productive communication if they are afraid that their experience will be rejected.
Of course, this is an unfortunate attitude that stems from insecurity and is not unique to piano technicians. It is a great attitude to have to help one remain ignorant!
_________________________
Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Charles R. Walter, Brodmann, Feurich
www.pianocraft.net
http://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel/videos

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

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#1865079 - 03/19/12 11:20 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
RPD Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 961
Loc: Kalamazoo Michigan
Originally Posted By: rysowers


Would any non-members here be interested in taking the PTG exams if you could advertise it? Would you be willing to complete a minimal ammount of continuing education points and a modest annual fee in order to maintain your certification? This is how the MTNA does it.


Yes...for me anyway, it would be for just to measure against the industry my level, as well as just to learn. Sitting at the feet of those who have dedicated so much of their time to building the tests and standards would be fun and interesting.

It wouldn't matter to me regarding pass/fail, or any credential...I'd just be into it for the educational opportunity.

Cost wouldn't be an issue for me...1/2 hour of time with the right teacher can put a person to work for months!....and THAT's worth whatever it costs...

RPD
_________________________
MPT(Master Piano Technicians of America)
Member AMICA (Automated Musical Instruments Collector's Association)
(Subscriber PTG Journal)
Piano-Tuner-Rebuilder/Musician www.actionpianoservice.com

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#1866313 - 03/21/12 11:30 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: Dave B]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2381
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted By: Dave B
Jim, You may want to talk to Loren or Rick about the MPT.


Thanks, I will.
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#1866320 - 03/21/12 11:36 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: That Guy]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2381
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted By: That Guy
Even on an upright he holds the hammer like you do on a grand except at the 12 o'clock position. That seems very uncomfortable to me and besides that's not what is taught in the Reblitz book. He didn't believe me so since I had my book with me I showed him the photo. He was surprised and said that he wasn't taught that way but if I wanted to do it that way he guessed it was okay.


I've never heard of that, either. My mentor, back in the 70's, taught me to hold it the same way it's illustrated in Reblitz's book.
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#1866378 - 03/22/12 01:31 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: OperaTenor]
kpembrook Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1309
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: OperaTenor
I've never heard of that, either. My mentor, back in the 70's, taught me to hold it the same way it's illustrated in Reblitz's book.


The dirty little secret being that whatever position you place the tuning hammer, and whatever tip or unhelpful force it may apply to the pin, that force will be exactly and perfectly cancelled by simply applying force in the opposite direction. Thus, unless you are a person who moves the pin from wherever it is to bullseye dead-on pitch in one single pull, what the orientation of the hammer is simply is not an issue.
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#1866403 - 03/22/12 03:38 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Tunewerk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 410
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: Keith Kerman
I have definately observed technicians who were extremely aggressive and dismissive about criticizing techniques other than their own. Unfortunately, right or wrong, if someone comes across as confidant enough with this attitude, it will definately have an influence on someone less sure of themselves, and it also certainly dissuades people from having productive communication if they are afraid that their experience will be rejected.

Of course, this is an unfortunate attitude that stems from insecurity and is not unique to piano technicians. It is a great attitude to have to help one remain ignorant!


Beautifully said, Keith. Thanks.
_________________________
www.tunewerk.com

Unity of tone through applied research.

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#1866633 - 03/22/12 02:15 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 401
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Quote:
what the orientation of the hammer is simply is not an issue.


I agree Keith. My first mentor just said to find out what works for you and that's what I've done.

I've heard about the dangers of bending a pin if you have your hammer at the wrong angle and I've wondered about that. I would think it would take a ton of force to bend a pin but I suppose it's possible.
_________________________
Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com

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#1866824 - 03/22/12 07:29 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: That Guy]
Bill Bremmer RPT Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3222
Loc: Madison, WI USA
Originally Posted By: That Guy
Quote:
what the orientation of the hammer is simply is not an issue.


I agree Keith. My first mentor just said to find out what works for you and that's what I've done.

I've heard about the dangers of bending a pin if you have your hammer at the wrong angle and I've wondered about that. I would think it would take a ton of force to bend a pin but I suppose it's possible.


I just looked at the last page and it seems PTG members are posting and it has gone off topic. Therefore, I will agree with the last three or so in saying that the position of the tuning hammer is irrelevant to tuning. However, it may be very relevant to your body! I would be more concerned about bending my back out of shape than I would the tuning pin.
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1866927 - 03/22/12 11:21 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 401
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Yes, I agree Bill. Thanks for the confirmation. Now that you mention it I try to be in a comfortable position, sit as much as I can and I don't have chronic back problems. I think a good hammer is helpful too. My Fujan carbon fiber has served me well.
_________________________
Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com

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#1866955 - 03/23/12 12:42 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Fujan is really cool! I use it to tune ultra hard pins. My favorite babe is Cyberhammer.
_________________________
Fake Book player
Ragtime beginner
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

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#1866974 - 03/23/12 02:01 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Bill Bremmer RPT Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3222
Loc: Madison, WI USA
We all have to find the tuning hammer and technique that works best for us, personally. A novice will almost always try to "turn" tuning pins the way one would turn a guitar peg or a harpsichord tuning pin. I try to tell people that while one may accomplish a tuning in that way, the inevitable result, especially with very tight tuning pins is that it will create far more work to be done than an impact type technique.

Therefore, the impact type tuning hammer does work well for some people. However, I use an impact type technique with a tuning hammer made for me by Joe Goss. It is just heavy enough and just light enough to suit my needs. Most importantly, it has a "gear shift" type handle on it that I can use to slow pull if the circumstance requires it.

Primarily, I use it in the 2 o'clock position on both grands and verticals. However, in the high treble, I change the position as needed. Whatever that position may be is irrelevant to being able to manipulate the tuning pin and get the piano into tune. I simply can't imagine trying to tune a piano in some of the awkward and stressful positions that some people say is most correct.

I stand while tuning grands and simply spread my feet apart to lower myself. If, however, I am programming a tuning into my ETD, I usually sit. Sometimes I go between standing and sitting at various pianos to offer myself a change whether I have been standing too long or sitting too long.

A PTG Associate member who mostly does rebuilding but was interested in my techniques recently consulted with me. He asked at one point whether my techniques were oriented mostly towards ergonomics (human comfort). I thought about it for a moment, then answered, "Yes". A thousand or more tunings a year and each one tuned at least twice over simply requires techniques that do not wear out a person, cause more stress than necessary and certainly not injury such as back pain, tendinitis or Carpel Tunnel syndrome.

Back towards at least the topic: Certainly PTG, as an organization, does not endorse or recommend any type of tuning hammer or technique. PTG recognizes that there are diverse opinions,tools and techniques for any job. It presents classes at its annual Institute, Regional Seminars as well Chapter technical sessions where the instructor may offer his or her preferences and the audience may make of that material what they will.

PTG does evaluate feedback from these sessions and goes with what any committee may decide is worthwhile to continue or not. Sometimes, personalities and conflicts between members arise that may interfere with the best possible choices being made. Such are the limitations of any organization. I know this from my own experience and what I have seen and heard and read about occur.

No one can please or satisfy everybody all the time. If we tried to do that, it would dilute and diminish the strength we all have in what we do.
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1867297 - 03/23/12 03:18 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 401
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Again, thanks Bill. For years I've had this guilty feeling every time I have my hammer not in the "proper" position. Today when I was tuning I had no guilt. It feels good.

Now that I think about it most of the issues I've had with the PTG are on a local level. Kinda pains me to say that. There's some good people but most of those that are RPT's have an elitist attitude. One of our most respected members is working towards associates becoming RPT's, which is perfectly fine, but his main goal is that we're all on the same page. I'm not sure what he means but I take it that it means that we all need to tune the same way and be little clones. Where's the growth in that? I want to try new things and think outside of the box. I really don't like the phrase, "Well, we never did it that way in the past." So what? He was also concerned that tunings (ETD & aural) were being stretched too much. I asked him why and he didn't answer me. This concern came after he had attended Bernhard Stoppers session on tuning his temperment aurally. I have the Tunic OnlyPure program so I think he was talking to me.
_________________________
Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com

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#1867321 - 03/23/12 04:05 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: That Guy]
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 628
Loc: shirley, MA
Originally Posted By: That Guy
He was also concerned that tunings (ETD & aural) were being stretched too much. I asked him why and he didn't answer me. This concern came after he had attended Bernhard Stoppers session on tuning his temperment aurally. I have the Tunic OnlyPure program so I think he was talking to me.


This is an interesting point, and one that I wonder about. RPTs I know in my area are quite friendly and inclusive. In Boston, for example, the Associates are listed on the web site.

But many of the RPT's and I would say especially the examiners in this area don't seem to get the musicality of the stretch you are referring to.

Maybe Bill could respond to this, since his tunings are well stretched, and he feels strongly about bringing new RPT's on board. I get the sense that if I for some unforseen reason decided to take the RPT tests, I would have to tune in a fashion which I consider unmusical, just to pass the exam. Not sure I want to waste the energy practicing something I activily don't like to listen to or play.

Jim Ialeggio
_________________________
Jim Ialeggio
www.grandpianosolutions.com
advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
Shirley Center, MA

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#1867325 - 03/23/12 04:17 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2373
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Jim, there are plenty of reasons that can be found why a test type ET tuning sounds bad or even "unmusical" and they all have to do with the tuner and what they did, not the temperament. The day that people regularly complain about a well executed ET not being musical has not arrived and I think that most people in general don't care enough to make it so in the future. Most of the tuners and musicians don't.
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

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