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#1868809 - 03/26/12 02:33 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4908
Loc: Bradford County, PA
I am all for enforced standards in tuning, as long as it is ET! wink
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1868811 - 03/26/12 02:34 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21292
Loc: Oakland
Yes, in California, auto mechanics and contractors of several varieties need licenses. Movers do, so you need one to move pianos. However, there are many professions which are not licensed. One can do work that requires a license if the amount of money is small, under $400 I believe.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#1868817 - 03/26/12 02:58 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
are PTG members "licensed, bonded and insured"? you see this nowadays on most ads for
building contractors,plumbers, electricians etc, I guess its like the old "good housekeeping seal" I don't think they use that anymore.. smile

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#1868841 - 03/26/12 03:59 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: Bob Newbie]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
No, we are not "licensed, bonded and insured." At least not through the PTG. wink We have to do that on our own as individuals if we want it, but it is not a requirement here in Michigan at least.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1868849 - 03/26/12 04:14 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: UnrightTooner]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Madison, WI USA
Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner
I am all for enforced standards in tuning, as long as it is ET! wink


That is one thing that PTG is totally against and wishes to avoid if at all possible.

There is no connection between the standards of the tuning exam and any requirement or even recommendation by PTG that any piano at any time for and circumstance be tuned in ET or that its members, RPT or Associates should try to mimic in any way the standards of the tuning exam in practice.
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1868855 - 03/26/12 04:23 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: Bob Newbie]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Madison, WI USA
Originally Posted By: Bob Newbie
are PTG members "licensed, bonded and insured"? you see this nowadays on most ads for
building contractors,plumbers, electricians etc, I guess its like the old "good housekeeping seal" I don't think they use that anymore.. smile


As Jer, said, PTG does not involve itself in that. However, any responsible person in business does carry such insurance. After all, if we cause damage either to the piano or something else in the course of our work, we are liable for it under the law. Sometimes, the entities we work for may require proof of such insurance.
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1868923 - 03/26/12 07:04 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: That Guy]
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1295
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: That Guy
Quote:
I sort of feel that it should be obliged by law that you can only operate as piano technician if you are properly certified. Otherwise it is sort of like practicing medicine without a license.


I think some PTG people would really like this too. With all due respect I'm very much against it. I Feel that the comparison to practicing medicine is flawed. A piano is not a person. If I make a mistake no one dies. Also, I would hate to see more government regulation.


Actually, it is probably organizations like PTG that is saving all the "independents" from governmental licensing requirements. You see, there has been talk of that by folk who think about regulating people that work on other people's stuff (real estate brokers, electricians, plumbers, to name a few). It is the presence of some kind of self-regulation process that keeps the busybodies from imposing governmental regulation requirements.

I doubt that there is anyone in PTG who wants governmental regulation. If such a thing were ever to come down the pike, it would be PTG that would be representing the interests of the trade. With the independents, it would be a classic case of "divide and conquer".
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair

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#1868961 - 03/26/12 08:54 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 746
Loc: Hong Kong
Gov't license has certain protection to bad tuners, like the medical doctor. If he has licence, follow procedure strictly, the patient die, the docto has not liability.

If tuner need a licence, then ETD also need certificate. If client complain about tuning, just reply:"I am using certified ETD, following legal tuning procedure strictly. You have right to not satisfy, but you can not judge my service."

Very cool.
_________________________
Fake Book player
Ragtime beginner
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

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#1868964 - 03/26/12 08:57 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 390
Loc: Lincoln, NE
That's good to hear Keith. I'm glad you think I'm wrong!
_________________________
Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com

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#1869439 - 03/27/12 09:03 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3834
Could you imagine if some states licensed tuners and some didn't - and there were different tests for each state, and for those techs living in a border area needing licenses for two or three different states? What an mess that would be. I don't think anyone need worry about that anytime soon.

Personally I found the one note sharp, one note flat more than annoying while testing. I'd rather have the whole piano 3 cents flat. Nothing is perfect, I guess.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






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#1869445 - 03/27/12 09:09 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
You are Bob. You are APerfectpiano.com! :):):)
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1869464 - 03/27/12 10:02 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3847
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: rysowers
[...] I talked to one technicians who lived between two chapters. At first he went to the bigger one (probably around 50 members) and was surprised that nobody came and said hi to him, and he felt like he basically got the cold shoulder.

Then he went to another somewhat smaller (35 members) chapter that was a little further to drive and was surprised by the difference: a warm welcome and introduction to the group and much looked for support. Within a few years he was chapter President!

The PTG is a very complex organization with no shortage of big egos. There are also some amazing people who give a tremendous amount without seeking anything in return. There are plenty of eccentrics (like you would expect in this type of work) and there are also a good number of suits. It brings people together from the extreme left and right of politics, and folks of all types of religious persuasion. [...]


Sounds like church! grin
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1869469 - 03/27/12 10:09 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: Cinnamonbear]
RestorerPhil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 212
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear

Sounds like church! grin


Just without the choir.
tired tired tired
tired tired tired
_________________________
Lavender Piano Services
Established 1977
Tuning, Concert Maintenance,
Rebuilding & Restoration

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#1869473 - 03/27/12 10:13 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: RestorerPhil]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3847
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: RestorerPhil
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear

Sounds like church! grin


Just without the choir.
tired tired tired
tired tired tired


...because everybody's a preacher? whome
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1869483 - 03/27/12 10:29 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1869488 - 03/27/12 10:34 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3847
Loc: Rockford, IL
Jerry,

You're always helping us get a Handel on things...

Thanks!
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1869490 - 03/27/12 10:36 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
You you mean this kind of Handel? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RrdwElnTU
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1869491 - 03/27/12 10:39 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3847
Loc: Rockford, IL
LOL! Now you are preaching! grin
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1869493 - 03/27/12 10:40 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I'm playing my own saggggaaaa now.

Hey, aren't I playing YOUR song now Andy? hahaha
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1869496 - 03/27/12 10:46 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3847
Loc: Rockford, IL
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1869505 - 03/27/12 11:03 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
But, I think they kind of want to do it My way.

You know, you Gave me a mountain to climb here.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1869506 - 03/27/12 11:05 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3834
A Perfect Piano was first in the phone book listings......back in the days when the phone book worked! ha ha.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






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#1869510 - 03/27/12 11:15 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3847
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
But, I think they kind of want to do it My way.

You know, you Gave me a mountain to climb here.


Thank you, Jerry. Thankyouverymush.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1869640 - 03/28/12 06:49 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
thumb ha

Now that "we've" lightened things up again, go ahead and continue your conversations as per the threads original topic if you so desire. smile
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1869642 - 03/28/12 06:59 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: Bob]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Bob
A Perfect Piano was first in the phone book listings......back in the days when the phone book worked! ha ha.


That's the main reason I became a piano tech. It put me in the yellow pages between physicians and pizza.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1869745 - 03/28/12 11:18 AM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2401
Loc: Olympia, WA
I'm not sure which is more important: Physicians, or pizza? (probably the pizza!)
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#1869796 - 03/28/12 01:02 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada


With more than 600 calories and a week’s worth of sodium per slice, it is the physician that comes later.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1869834 - 03/28/12 02:18 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: rysowers]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Both!!! smile
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1880585 - 04/16/12 02:52 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: Emmery]
CalgaryTuning Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/14/12
Posts: 1
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: Emmery
The retesting for members who let their membership lapse is simply a money grab. It is ludicrous to assume that failure to keep up with membership or dues is in any way tied in with a loss of competancy. If this were the case, every school in the world would be charging yearly fees for graduates to retain their diplomas or credentials.


It is my understanding that retesting is only required of lapsed members if the exams have changed since they were originally taken.

Your comparison with schools is specious as the PTG isn't a school. All professional organizations require their members to to pay yearly fees to retain their credentials and more than a few require regular skills upgrading to keep them as well.


John
_________________________
Three Generations of Experience

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#1880828 - 04/16/12 09:46 PM Re: Perception of the PTG from non members [Re: CalgaryTuning]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2356
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Originally Posted By: CalgaryTuning
Originally Posted By: Emmery
The retesting for members who let their membership lapse is simply a money grab. It is ludicrous to assume that failure to keep up with membership or dues is in any way tied in with a loss of competancy. If this were the case, every school in the world would be charging yearly fees for graduates to retain their diplomas or credentials.


It is my understanding that retesting is only required of lapsed members if the exams have changed since they were originally taken.

Your comparison with schools is specious as the PTG isn't a school. All professional organizations require their members to to pay yearly fees to retain their credentials and more than a few require regular skills upgrading to keep them as well.
John


Its my understanding that retesting is required if payment of dues stops....therefore membership lapses, and a tech would like to be able to advertise and be recognized as an "RPT" again. Although what your saying about the exams changing or not, does make sense, I don't believe it has any bearing on the situation with the PTG unless this is a very recent change they made in this policy.

My comment was not specious about the comparison to schools. I was speaking of the end results... Accreditation, diplomas, professional status or simply letters beside ones name all come under the heading of "Credentials". They can come from schools that test, or they can come from organizations that test. Sometimes a membership in an organization may be mandated by regulations, but piano techs arn't one of them.

In a nutshell, as a graduate of a school program, the credential is recognized as an achievement, in and of itself and is retained by the graduate to be used as they wish. The PTG on the other hand has the RPT credential "rented" to a member for the sum of the yearly membersip due.

My comparison to schools is also tied to the role the PTG plays in providing educational resources, seminars and classes to its members. Schools do the same. Outside of private schools, college or university affiliated piano programs must additionally meet federal and provincial/state educational requirements which are mandated by a regulatory body. This is to assure to the public that a certain level of study (time), competancy and testing has taken place that is in their view, appropriate for the field of study.

Furthermore, graduate students from a recognized institution must meet attendance requirements usually measured in thousands of hours of classes and they must also complete all the required side related courses to their trade/profession...that is before they get to write their final tests. Organizations on the other hand may loosely present their education materials to a student as they wish and the entire process of learning could theoretically take place reading on a toilet with a manual on their lap.


Edited by Emmery (04/16/12 10:05 PM)
Edit Reason: additional information, spelling error
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

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