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#1859190 - 03/09/12 11:13 PM How LOW can I go?
pipianajones Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/06/12
Posts: 13
I need advice-- what is the lowest I could offer on a used 5 year old Petrof P131E1 upright (mahogany, excellent condition) that wouldn't just insult the seller? So a low offer, but realistic.
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#1859458 - 03/10/12 02:19 PM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: pipianajones]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3318
If you are looking to buy a piano, this will help you a lot: http://www.pianobuyer.com/

You can look up current prices, and then come up with what you think is an appropriate offer. It's hard to say what that would be, exactly, without seeing the piano. In a good economic climate, the general rule would be 74% (for a five year old piano) of the new price. In this instance that would mean a fair market price of about 15,000USD. If I was selling this piano and someone offered me less than 10,000USD I'd probably be insulted. However, these are tough times, and many people are desperate to get rid of their pianos.
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#1859483 - 03/10/12 03:21 PM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: pipianajones]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7116
Loc: torrance, CA
Fun thread title. I thought you wanted to know the lowest standard of acceptable forum behavior grin


Assuming this is private party one-owner, I'd guess the buyer in 2007 paid around 10 - 11k for one of these, maybe a bit more with the wood finish. This was low tide for Petrof prices because of a legal mess and cancelling dealers. It was before PEtrof instituted mammoth price increases. On that basis I'd bid 7 - 7.5 adn give ground grudgingly if I really liked it and it checked out on inspection.

If the seller screams that he paid 18k, just ask to see the recept.
_________________________
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The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1859484 - 03/10/12 03:22 PM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: beethoven986]
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3299
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Originally Posted By: beethoven986

If I was selling this piano and someone offered me less than 10,000USD I'd probably be insulted.


I never knew you were so sensitive!

To OP, if you want to negotiate, but are concerned with insulting the seller, just ask them what their absolute bottom line price is to sell it to you right now. Make sure you mean it and that if they offer it at a price you are comfortable with, you buy it then and there. It they don't change their price or if they don't go to a price you can accept, both parties can move on!
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Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
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keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

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#1859622 - 03/10/12 07:48 PM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: pipianajones]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1867
Loc: Philadelphia area
Never show up at a piano fight with out your check book.

Or Cash ... might be better.

And a moving truck.

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#1859675 - 03/10/12 11:07 PM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: Keith D Kerman]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3318
Originally Posted By: Keith D Kerman
Originally Posted By: beethoven986

If I was selling this piano and someone offered me less than 10,000USD I'd probably be insulted.


I never knew you were so sensitive!

To OP, if you want to negotiate, but are concerned with insulting the seller, just ask them what their absolute bottom line price is to sell it to you right now. Make sure you mean it and that if they offer it at a price you are comfortable with, you buy it then and there. It they don't change their price or if they don't go to a price you can accept, both parties can move on!


Haha. Well I did say probably, not definitely. From a purly academic standpoint, taking a 50% hit after five years of ownership would probably sting. But at the same time, if it was between that and missing a mortgage payment, well, it's all a matter of perspective, I guess.
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M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
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#1860446 - 03/12/12 12:47 PM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: pipianajones]
pipianajones Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/06/12
Posts: 13
I definitely have stars in my eyes for this piano. Not able to make an appt to see it until next week though, will keep you posted!
_________________________
www.piperspianolessons.com

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#1860459 - 03/12/12 01:14 PM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: pipianajones]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1706
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
No offer you make should insult anyone. This isn't friendship, it's trade.

Consider stating that, in light of your family's budget, you don't believe you'd be able to pay more than $xxx. Then see what happens.
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"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#1860477 - 03/12/12 01:42 PM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: ClsscLib]
Piano*Dad Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10345
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
No offer you make should insult anyone. This isn't friendship, it's trade.

Consider stating that, in light of your family's budget, you don't believe you'd be able to pay more than $xxx. Then see what happens.


Yes, that's about it.

What someone paid for the piano may influence what they think they can get for it on resale, but the wider market doesn't really care what they paid. If someone happens to pay full retail, while the person next to them paid 40% off for the same piano, my willingness to pay to buy the former is no higher than my willingness to pay for the latter, other things equal.

The fact that they might be able to document having paid a certain price shouldn't have much effect on your own willingness to pay, given that you may have other alternatives and a certain bottom line of your own. Not all deals are possible. Be prepared to walk away. If you truly have stars in your eyes, you will find yourself paying for those stars.
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#1860478 - 03/12/12 01:42 PM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: pipianajones]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7116
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: pipianajones
I definitely have stars in my eyes for this piano. Not able to make an appt to see it until next week though, will keep you posted!


Get a grip. The stars should only come out and shine AFTER you've seen and played the piano. Don't convince yourself that you're going to like it.

I still have the same opinion on the price opener. If everything is to your satisfaction, open at 7k contingent on a technical inspection (that you will pay for). If the seller fusses and fumes, ask to see the original receipt.
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Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1860654 - 03/12/12 07:24 PM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: turandot]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3318
Originally Posted By: turandot
Get a grip. The stars should only come out and shine AFTER you've seen and played the piano. Don't convince yourself that you're going to like it.


And, after you're away from the seller. Gushing over the thing in front of the person selling it will probably work against you when negotiating.
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B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#1875271 - 04/07/12 06:30 PM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: pipianajones]
bbuckis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 81
Originally Posted By: pipianajones
I definitely have stars in my eyes for this piano. Not able to make an appt to see it until next week though, will keep you posted!


pipianajones, What happened with this piano? Did you ever go see it?
_________________________
The only thing preventing me from owning a Steinway & Sons produced piano, is Steinway & Sons Customer Service. They should work on that.

Fortunately the piano I want the most is sold by Steinway & Sons!
Unfortunately the piano I want the most is only sold by Steinway & Sons.

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#1875722 - 04/08/12 04:23 PM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: pipianajones]
j&j Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 444
Loc: Southwest
I think Dave B nailed it. Show up with your checkbook or cash in hand. Although I haven't bought a piano from a private seller in many years, cash in my pocket got me a great deal on many other things we've purchased. A seller will generally take a lower offer if he/she can make the sale then and there.
_________________________
J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working." Pablo Picasso

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#1877868 - 04/11/12 11:06 PM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: pipianajones]
pipianajones Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/06/12
Posts: 13
I offered $6000 on the P131 and he declined. That was my outside figure, so that piano is off the table for me.

Another seller is asking $5500 for a 12 year old P125 Petrof. I spoke with a guy from Petrof in California and he said he thought that was WAY too high, that he would expect to see more like $3500 on that piano.

Can anyone knowledgable about Petrof prices help me make a decision on the 125?
_________________________
www.piperspianolessons.com

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#1878091 - 04/12/12 09:27 AM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: pipianajones]
mcours2006 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 32
There are a few Petrof 125's listed on Pianomart and eBay of similar age (or newer) for between $5-6K, but that's listed price.

Petrof did undergo some drastic price increase a few years ago. A new P125 now lists for $12,500 (in CAD), whereas it could have been had for as little as $6000 back in 2000. That being the case, $5500 on a 2000 model P125 is way, way too high. The owner might be thinking that $5500 is reasonable considering a new one costs well over $10k, but that's not the price he paid for it back in 2000.

Reasonable price would be $3000-$3500, and probably on the lower end of that. I found the same 12-year old P125 you spoke of in good condition from a private seller around that price range and I bought it. It's a lovely sounding instrument and we love it.

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#1878096 - 04/12/12 09:37 AM Re: How LOW can I go? [Re: pipianajones]
mcours2006 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 32
I think pricing on used Petrof's is a bit tricky with that price increase. As a buyer, one would tend to look at the original purchase price. But as seller, one would be more inclined to look at the current new price. I'm not sure how one can reconcile that. The two prices are too far apart.

Question for dealers: Which way should it be?

I was fortunate in that the seller only considered his original purchase price, which he stated was just over $5k. Thus a resale price of about 60% of that was deemed reasonable by him.



Edited by mcours2006 (04/12/12 09:38 AM)

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