Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum piano teacher trying out the piano before purchase

It is in the teacher's best interest for the student to get a good instrument.

Regardless of where it comes from, be it brand new or used, as a teacher I want my students to have the best possible instrument. If I don't care about their instrument and its ultimate effect upon them, then I have no business "teaching" piano lessons.

Furthermore, if I will go to check on a piano only if the dealer tosses me a few dollars after the purchase, but not go to a private sale (or to another dealer) because there is no $$ coming to me, then that too is not ok.

The student's success as a pianist is my teaching goal, and that certainly involves them having the correct and inspiring instrument.

Once I had a student joyfully announce that they had just got a new piano; new to them, about 100 years old elsewise, a completely worthless junker monster upright.

I wish I could have gone with them. I would have paid to go. To add insult to injury, they actually paid money for it, plus paid more to move it. A very uncomfortable and unfortunate situation.

I disagree with this statement. Ignoring the fact that no 2 pianos are exactly alike, the work that dealers do to pianos varies significantly. This "prep work" or lack there of can cause huge differences in the way a piano feels and sounds and even effects the longevity of the piano.

I know that teachers are generally some of the most giving people in the world. This is evidenced by many of the replies here. But, I believe it is important to note that, if a teacher should choose to donate their time and effort, it is out of the kindness of their heart.
If a teacher says he will do so, that is wonderful. No need to compensate them.

I don't think anyone should ever expect someone to do so without offering compensation.

I'm with Ben here, and he and I have actually acted as paid piano consultants on occasion. That's a clearer monetary relationship between piano purchaser and outside expert.

What I find interesting is still the original post. We have a parent, Bumble, who sounds like he or she is unfamiliar with pianos. So naturally the question is put to the friendly piano teacher: "Can you help our Bumble family find a better piano?"

Teacher says: "With pleasure, Mr. or Mrs. Bumble. Go to Kawai dealer X and Yamaha dealer Y, and be sure you speak to salesperson XX and YY at each place, and be sure to drop my name with both of them. This is very important. And whatever you do, don't complete the piano purchase until I have a chance to drop in and see my friend XX or YY on your behalf.

"I do understand that you're going to buy this shiny new Asian piano straight out of the crate in the warehouse, so I won't actually be playing your instrument at all, but nevertheless it's still important that you allow me to finesse this deal for you, to get the most favorable terms."

This is not piano purchase help. It is graft.

I am thrilled when a student, friend, or colleague asks me to assist them in shopping for a piano. When this has happened, I have never asked for compensation. If our search takes us through a meal time, it's nice if the person I'm helping would spring for lunch, etc.

There's only been one instance when a store suggested I would get some sort of compensation for steering a customer to purchase from them. It came off very slimy, and I was quite frankly offended by the offer.

I don't tell people what to buy; instead, I help them make an informed decision about piano size, type, understanding maintenance requirements, what to pay, and what's possible within their budget. I never cross the line and suggest exactly what to buy.

Ben, it would be interesting to hear from some techs on this subject. I believe I first heard this from a tech (perhaps more than one). I really wonder if piano dealers do anything other than a tuning on an upright, regardless of what they might say.

I am quite sure that some dealers prep their pianos, and most (at least in the Atlanta area) don't.

If you wish, you can view many threads on dealer prep to confirm this.

please do not just get a boxed piano thinking it will be the same as the one you might like that is the floor model. I had an experience where a buyer selected a particular studio Kawai upright at one of our dealer stores in Clovis (now out of business) among lines of Kawai studios, that stood out as far better than the others. The buyer failed to put the serial number of this piano thinking it was going to be the one she chose. After she left another buyer came in the store, and loved the piano that now had a SOLD sign on it. The dealer then came over, and lifted the SOLD sign saying, it was okay. He could still sell the new person this one since the other buyer would take a boxed model. Well fast forward the clock and I heard from the first gal purchaser since she was interested in taking piano lessons and had my business card, and she specifically expressed disappointment in her NEW piano.. because it did NOT sound like the one she chose.
Sorry to disagree that all NEW uprights sound the same... But John I do agree with you that a piano teacher offers a dimension of evaluation about tone and feel that should be in addition to the tech eval... I tell students to have a tech eval and the tech should not have a financial relationship to the dealer. I don't get commissions or kickbacks when I check on pianos for my students. It's a courtesy extended.

I want to add to the story I recounted that the dealer did NOT put the serial number of the piano I mentioned on the INVOICE which to me is a very serious omission.

Perhaps some do prep uprights, or say they do, but I wonder what kind of upright would really need much prepping. Of the four uprights I've purchased since 1968, all arrived untouched by the dealer, and all were fine, except, of course, for tuning and some very minor adjustments, which were accomplished on site. The instruments were, in purchase order: Baldwin Hamilton, Sauter, Grotrian, and finally, a Boston. The Boston had a very minor issue with the setting of one string, which my tech took care of (I suspect most people could have lived with it). None needed prep like resetting key let-off, correcting key dip, etc., etc. And all were quite well and evenly voiced. Our church has taken delivery of both a Yamaha and Boston upright in the past ten years, and both arrived in the factory crates. Neither needed any work except tuning.

If you're purchasing a piano off the floor, by all means insure the serial number is on the invoice and that you have a copy. Also, the OP is planning to purchase a grand, not an upright. It's been my experience that grands have a greater variation in tone and color, and in feel of the action than uprights.

Again, let me emphasize the importance of knowledge. Read Larry Fine's Piano Book!

The whole story is here.. Yes the Kawai I learned was PREPPED..
though dealers will tell you they are all the same out of the factory.. yadda, yadda. And here is the actual drama as I recounted it. The dealer said the purchaser wanted a boxed Walnut Kawai which was UNTRUE.. and I did not report the upshot of what happened as I did here in my Piano World post..

http://arioso7.wordpress.com/2011/01/05/fujie-finds-her-dream-piano-but-buyer-beware/

John,
I don't yet have enough experience to make the following claim, so I will quote it from another thread.


I have played top name pianos (Kawai and Yamaha) where you could play three different notes and get the feeling you were playing three different pianos. Which one was I supposed to be buying?

I have also played multiple pianos of the exact same make and model (Yamaha GH-1s, small grands) and each one had it's own character.
I wholeheartedly encourage piano buyers to go and play the EXACT piano they will be purchasing prior to purchase. Ask about prep work done. Listen carefully to individual notes for evenness of tone. Play the piano and feel for even response, ESPECIALLY at a very soft volume. That is where the proof is.
If something is not right, make the dealer fix it PRIOR to purchase. One exception might be final voicing. This should be done in the home. I'm not talking about making the piano at least fairly even in terms of tone, but the final touchups to evenness and coloration of the sound. I've heard of dealers letting you try the piano in your home with no commitment. Maybe this could be extended to include final voicing.

Yep!

You'd have to be very lucky to get a piano straight out of the crate to sound good.

I helped my student pick out a beautiful upright, but I knew it needed prep work. Three years later, the parents still have not called my tech for prep work. They've called their old, inept (and cheap) tuner maybe three times to tune? They absolutely refuse to believe me that pianos need to be regulated, just like cars. And their attitude is spilling over to their kid, who is just about ready to quit piano lessons.

I'm just one lucky guy! Imagine getting six of them!

BTW, what do you think a dealer is going to do with a piano which has a small profit margin? Five hours of voicing? Doubt it seriously.

Ben, I'm talking uprights, not grands. My source, a tech who worked with Kawaii for years, explained that the under 6 ft models and uprights were almost entirely automated in construction. Of course, no two are "exactly" the same, because wood products always have very slight variations. But they are far, far more consistent that handwork, which is prevalent on larger model grands.

And I suppose it depends upon what the meaning of "is" is. Or in this case, prepping. If by prepping, you mean tuning and checking for damage, then I guess most dealers prep uprights. If you mean revoicing, resetting let-off, etc., then I suggest that work would eliminate any profit for them.

I did mix grands into my last post, but my experience of playing three notes that sound like three different pianos happened on Kawai K series pianos and Yamaha M something or anothers.


There is certainly more and more automation going into piano work, but there are still many, many steps that have to be done by hand.

Your point about what constitutes prep work is being discussed right now on the piano forum.
Here's the link http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1862952/1.html

Of note is the following quote.

A piano out of the box might or might not have been prepped properly at the factory, but by the time it travels thousands of miles through various climatic conditions, who knows. Also remember that many parts of a piano change over time and with use. Most of these changes happen early in the life of a piano. That is why it is recommended to have your piano properly regulated at the time of purchase and again regulated after the first year. This makes sure things are being trained properly. After that, the changes happen more slowly.
As for the profit margin, I am sure that prep work eats into profit. No doubt. That's why many dealers won't do it unless they have to. It is up to the customer to insist that it is done.

It is also important to note that most people, even professional pianists, are unaware of problems with regulation, even when looking for them. Only after a tech comes along and improves the performance of the piano do many people say, "Wow! I never knew how much better my piano could be." (Full disclosure - This last paragraph is restating information I have gleaned from others on this forum mixed with limited personal experience to the same effect. See my signature.)

Ben, when I got my 7' 6" Pramberger, which is based on the Steinway C, I downloaded Keith's prep check list, and gave a copy to my tech. Now, we're talking a grand which has a SRP of close to $50k. I bought it out of the box, knowing full well it would/could need serious work. My tech, who is one of the top regional pros, spent nearly 15 hours fine tuning and adjusting the instrument. And yes, even though it sounded and played impressively, the additional work made a significant difference. For example, he had to retune the aliquots, which were tuned a half step too low, so the duplex scale would be proper resonance(a true factory defect); he rebored the holes in the keys where the pins come through, and sanded them, to reduce friction; lubricated joints and bearings, etc., and on and on. You can see some of the work on my flickr page, starting here.

Now, to be really blunt, no dealer is going to do this type of prep work on an upright. He'd be selling it at a significant financial loss if he did.

Can we agree that (1) not all uprights of the same make and model sound (and feel) the same, for various reasons, and (2) to be sure you get the one you tried out and liked in the store, be sure to write down the serial number--- in the store owner's presence--- at the time of audition.

Be sure it matches the serial number on the invoice, and check the piano before you take delivery to make sure that it has the same serial number as the one you tried out.

It is not necessarily a case of bait-and-switch; it could be a simple mistake, one piano appearing very like another of the same model and finish.

You are so right.. and the buyer should please note the serial number to make sure he gets the piano he picked.

I don't charge my students when I look at pianos for them.. But the tech, obviously is paid for his consult.