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#1866841 - 03/22/12 07:58 PM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: DazedAndConfused]
toddy Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 2299
Loc: Portugal
Yep. I couldn't lick his boots - not in that respect anyway.....and it should be remembered there's room enough in this world for some cheese.

.....must admit, though, I hadn't navigated anywhere near into the 7 minutes mark. I shall don my topee and have another go.

Crikey! Jangling chain round his neck, slick-back hair, distorted mike-into-PA effect.....he's really done his homework this bloke.
_________________________
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Audiophile 2496
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck

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#1866849 - 03/22/12 08:11 PM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: DazedAndConfused]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3771
Viscount Physis looks impressive (and expensive)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GCzvwFbWxk

Two models, plastic keys (4l lbs) or wood keys (60 lbs)

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#1866856 - 03/22/12 08:28 PM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: DazedAndConfused]
toddy Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 2299
Loc: Portugal
It certainly does look expensive, yes.

24 GHz processing, I think he said. How does that compare to the V-piano? Actually, the piano sounded a bit like V-Piano to me.
_________________________
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Audiophile 2496
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck

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#1866875 - 03/22/12 09:06 PM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: toddy]
alekkh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 205
Doesn't it sound a lot like $599 GEM RP-X piano module? The unnatural ringing at forte in particular.

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#1866886 - 03/22/12 09:26 PM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: DazedAndConfused]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10785
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Looks and sounds promising.

I would have preferred to hear the Rhodes model without the phaser, but hey, at least you're giving the option to chose from different models (are you watching Roland?).

Fatar action, presumably?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1866888 - 03/22/12 09:36 PM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: Kawai James]
dje31 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 220
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

Fatar action, presumably?


I can't possibly imagine otherwise.


Edited by dje31 (03/22/12 09:37 PM)
_________________________
Yamaha CP33 | Roland XP-30

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#1866896 - 03/22/12 10:03 PM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: Kawai James]
ando Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4206
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Kawai James


Fatar action, presumably?

Cheers,
James
x



Way to take the sheen off a product, hey?

Fatar actions are almost universally known as being sub-standard next to the actionbs made by the big 3. Why on earth would you develop an expensive, ground-breaking product and skimp on the action?

On the other hand, why don't Fatar just pull their finger out and just develop a premium performance action...?

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#1866900 - 03/22/12 10:20 PM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: ando]
dje31 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 220
Originally Posted By: ando

On the other hand, why don't Fatar just pull their finger out and just develop a premium performance action...?


Now that's just crazy talk.
_________________________
Yamaha CP33 | Roland XP-30

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#1866905 - 03/22/12 10:30 PM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: ando]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10785
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: ando
Why on earth would you develop an expensive, ground-breaking product and skimp on the action?


Because developing a realistic keyboard action is expensive, relative to software development.

And in the internet-era, consumers no longer visit stores, or play-test instruments with their own hands, rather they rely on audio demos and YouTube clips before purchasing online. I believe a Nord rep was quoted the other day as saying "It's all about the sound...", right?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1866965 - 03/23/12 01:27 AM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: Kawai James]
ando Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4206
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: ando
Why on earth would you develop an expensive, ground-breaking product and skimp on the action?


Because developing a realistic keyboard action is expensive, relative to software development.

And in the internet-era, consumers no longer visit stores, or play-test instruments with their own hands, rather they rely on audio demos and YouTube clips before purchasing online. I believe a Nord rep was quoted the other day as saying "It's all about the sound...", right?

Cheers,
James
x


And yet, on PW we have almost as many discussions about actions as we do about sound...

Fatar is actually an action company - so I don't know what their excuse could possibly be for not getting developing better actions. They seem to be standing still at the moment. In the end, an action isn't that complicated, they could even take their pointers from existing good actions and incorporate these things into their own designs. I'm damn sure I could come up with a decent action myself if I had access to the Fatar laboratory. Geez, you'd think it was rocket science. Now granted, they are targeted more towards the lighter portable market, but if they are going to start appearing in heavier, expensive flagship instruments, they need to lift their game and develop an action that lives up to the premise of the product.

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#1867058 - 03/23/12 08:23 AM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: ando]
alekkh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 205
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: ando
Why on earth would you develop an expensive, ground-breaking product and skimp on the action?


Because developing a realistic keyboard action is expensive, relative to software development.

And in the internet-era, consumers no longer visit stores, or play-test instruments with their own hands, rather they rely on audio demos and YouTube clips before purchasing online. I believe a Nord rep was quoted the other day as saying "It's all about the sound...", right?

Cheers,
James
x


And yet, on PW we have almost as many discussions about actions as we do about sound...

Fatar is actually an action company - so I don't know what their excuse could possibly be for not getting developing better actions. They seem to be standing still at the moment. In the end, an action isn't that complicated, they could even take their pointers from existing good actions and incorporate these things into their own designs. I'm damn sure I could come up with a decent action myself if I had access to the Fatar laboratory. Geez, you'd think it was rocket science. Now granted, they are targeted more towards the lighter portable market, but if they are going to start appearing in heavier, expensive flagship instruments, they need to lift their game and develop an action that lives up to the premise of the product.


Fatar could come up with a good action by infringing a hundred of Roland and Yamaha patents. After paying licensing fees, Fatar is quickly out of business.

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#1867061 - 03/23/12 08:32 AM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: alekkh]
ando Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4206
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: alekkh
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: ando
Why on earth would you develop an expensive, ground-breaking product and skimp on the action?


Because developing a realistic keyboard action is expensive, relative to software development.

And in the internet-era, consumers no longer visit stores, or play-test instruments with their own hands, rather they rely on audio demos and YouTube clips before purchasing online. I believe a Nord rep was quoted the other day as saying "It's all about the sound...", right?

Cheers,
James
x


And yet, on PW we have almost as many discussions about actions as we do about sound...

Fatar is actually an action company - so I don't know what their excuse could possibly be for not getting developing better actions. They seem to be standing still at the moment. In the end, an action isn't that complicated, they could even take their pointers from existing good actions and incorporate these things into their own designs. I'm damn sure I could come up with a decent action myself if I had access to the Fatar laboratory. Geez, you'd think it was rocket science. Now granted, they are targeted more towards the lighter portable market, but if they are going to start appearing in heavier, expensive flagship instruments, they need to lift their game and develop an action that lives up to the premise of the product.


Fatar could come up with a good action by infringing a hundred of Roland and Yamaha patents. After paying licensing fees, Fatar is quickly out of business.



So you think the only solution is to continue to make crappy actions? Also, do you think that Roland/Yamaha/Kawai have totally unique actions, with no common features and they happen to have stumbled across the only 3 possible solutions to a good DP action? Fatar is a lazy company any way you slice it.

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#1867088 - 03/23/12 09:19 AM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: DazedAndConfused]
Jake Johnson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/20/08
Posts: 84
I'm waiting for a serious demo video of the Physis piano. Seems to have interesting parameters, such as the hammer mass, but the introductory video just doesn't reveal much. (Other than the insight into how physical modelling is like making a cookie.)

Strange, really. Why announce without taking an hour to create a serious video with a step-through of each parameter?

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#1867603 - 03/24/12 04:56 AM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: DazedAndConfused]
Ojustaboo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/18/11
Posts: 155
Loc: Deleted
Deleted


Edited by Ojustaboo (07/29/13 05:59 PM)

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#1867622 - 03/24/12 07:37 AM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: Ojustaboo]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3771
Originally Posted By: Ojustaboo
The Youtube clip implies physical modelling is both new and unique to the Physis piano.

No, he says that multiple physical models (it has 5: piano, rhodes, wurli, clav, mallet) is new and unique in a digital piano, and he's right.

Of course sales pitches don't go out of their way to tell you what else may come close to their product, but what he says is correct. The V-Piano has only a single physical model. You can get multiple physical models in a computer setup (you can run pianoteq and other software simultaneously), but not built into a DP.

This was just mentioned in another forum, where someone noted these specific quotes from his pitch:

"...to illustrate how what physical modeling is, and how this piano, and this technology is different from all the other DPs in the market..." makes clear he's not talking about computer setups or anything that isn't a DP

"making this the only product on the market with multiple physical models inside" makes clear that he is distinguishing this from products that have only one physical model... it basically is a way of saying that there are other DPs that have just one (i.e. V Piano).

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#1869066 - 03/27/12 02:55 AM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: anotherscott]
pv88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 3145
@ anotherscott,

Have to disagree with your statement that the "V-Piano has only a single physical model" as Roland says that they have two models, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ewq6NgYpxA

Scott Tibbs indicates the two models in the V-Piano, being:

1) Steinway "D" (Vintage model)
2) Bosendorfer (Vanguard model)

He demonstrates the Bosendorfer sound in the video.

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#1869127 - 03/27/12 07:57 AM Re: Musikmesse Frankfurt - March 21 - 24 2012 [Re: pv88]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3771
Originally Posted By: pv88
Have to disagree with your statement that the "V-Piano has only a single physical model" as Roland says that they have two models, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ewq6NgYpxA

Scott Tibbs indicates the two models in the V-Piano, being:

1) Steinway "D" (Vintage model)
2) Bosendorfer (Vanguard model)

Thanks for that, I wasn't aware of (or had forgotten) that detail!

I guess the Physis demo could be forgiven if his statement were to be interpreted as meaning theirs is the first DP with models for different instruments (acoustic piano, electric piano, clav...) as opposed to only one instrument, acoustic piano. Sales-speak always means "find the most impressive way you can possibly say something while still finding some way for it to be true." ;-)

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