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#1869462 - 03/27/12 09:58 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: dje31]
alekkh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 205
Regardless of the feel, which is unknown, and based only on how "real" the sound is, V-Piano is safe.

Yet, I welcome any new digital piano that's not a recompilation of the standard Yamaha sample set. We need more of these things on the market. I wish the developers all the best.

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#1869465 - 03/27/12 10:03 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: ando]
36251 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 736
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: 36251
I like the fact that sampling keeps improving with technology but it's still originating from a design that's taken years to perfect.


That's still an argument for continuing with modelling though. When they finally get it right, it will have significant advantages over sampling. First, the size of the program itself will be much smaller and have an unlimited amount of velocity layers (layers being a sampling term). Second, as super fast processors get more and more common-place modelling will not tax the average processor much at all, so the hardware cost will drop. The only real problem is that modelling is still missing a few pieces of the puzzle - but it will get there eventually.
I would love to wrap my ears around modeling but you might say that they have made the clone but they can't make it think for itself yet. I'm always ready to dump my current DP for something really better but not only does the DP have to have the sound, it also have to have the perfect feel.
_________________________
AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

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#1869472 - 03/27/12 10:13 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 279
pianoxcape,

Granted you are trying to promote this new instrument so any comparisons you may have with the V-piano or any digital piano will probably be biased in favor of the instrument you are helping to promote. However it is good to see competition for modeled piano market as I do agree it is the future. Your opinion is welcome in this forum and any comparisons you may have will also be welcome. However I too will reserve judgement until I get to play one in person with my own headphones. It would have been nice to have a representative like you that was as knowledgeable about promoting the V-piano way back then. It may have generated more interest in the product early on. However the price of the V is still too high to bring it to the mainstream. Furthermore Yamaha hasn't even budged on trying to go back to the technology anytime soon. I do hope this does well and holds up as a great keyboard on its own. It will be interesting to see it go head to head with the now older V-piano.

I do have two questions for you though. While you are playing, can you take two distinct piano sounds and play them together or is it only modelling one at a time. Also, can you be playing a song and without interruption can you switch over to another modeled sound. Both of those features the V-piano cannot do, so it would be a selling point to mention that if the new Physis piano does.
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1869489 - 03/27/12 10:35 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: alekkh]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9013
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: alekkh
Regardless of the feel, which is unknown, and based only on how "real" the sound is, V-Piano is safe.


I believe that depends on your definition of the word 'safe'.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1869497 - 03/27/12 10:47 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: Kawai James]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3182
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: alekkh
Regardless of the feel, which is unknown, and based only on how "real" the sound is, V-Piano is safe.


I believe that depends on your definition of the word 'safe'.

My definition of the word 'safe' is something big, heavy, and difficult to move.



So I guess the V-Piano qualifies.

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#1869498 - 03/27/12 10:56 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: anotherscott]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: anotherscott

So I guess the V-Piano qualifies.



Perfect!
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1869503 - 03/27/12 11:02 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9013
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
wink
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1869508 - 03/27/12 11:07 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: anotherscott]
alekkh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 205
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: alekkh
Regardless of the feel, which is unknown, and based only on how "real" the sound is, V-Piano is safe.


I believe that depends on your definition of the word 'safe'.

My definition of the word 'safe' is something big, heavy, and difficult to move.



So I guess the V-Piano qualifies.



That's it.

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#1869514 - 03/27/12 11:22 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: ando]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: ando
That's still an argument for continuing with modelling though. When they finally get it right, it will have significant advantages over sampling. First, the size of the program itself will be much smaller and have an unlimited amount of velocity layers (layers being a sampling term). Second, as super fast processors get more and more common-place modelling will not tax the average processor much at all, so the hardware cost will drop. The only real problem is that modelling is still missing a few pieces of the puzzle - but it will get there eventually.


Though in recent years storage and sampling technology have progressed more quickly than processor and programming (modeling) technology in my view. No need to assume sampled pianos and the associated technology will not continue to improve as well. It appears that the best pianos will have some elements of both for some time. In my opinion the day when the best sounding pianos have no elements that have ever come through a mic is very distant. Not only will they need to overcome the hurdle of sounding like a piano, but then they will have to overcome the hurdle of sounding better than the acoustic pianos used in sampling, which are the product of hundreds of years of innovation.

Though I guess whatever tech the big three use to store their onboard sounds has not improved at a similar rate as the computer storage we use for software pianos--otherwise they would not continue to loop and compress--so perhaps you are right.

With respect to the price argument, in the spirit of nit picking I should point out that the processor hardware comprises a very tiny portion of the cost associated with, for example, the V piano. So processing speed gets cheaper that doesn't really affect the price of a V. The cost is in the programming and design, which is inherently (I believe) more expensive than the cost of sampling and then adding a few extras (like resonance, layer blending, etc.). So I don't see costs dropping for modeled pianos any faster than they do for sampled pianos, unless it be because of supply/demand considerations.


Edited by gvfarns (03/27/12 11:48 PM)

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#1869607 - 03/28/12 04:01 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: gvfarns]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3546
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Originally Posted By: ando
That's still an argument for continuing with modelling though. When they finally get it right, it will have significant advantages over sampling. First, the size of the program itself will be much smaller and have an unlimited amount of velocity layers (layers being a sampling term). Second, as super fast processors get more and more common-place modelling will not tax the average processor much at all, so the hardware cost will drop. The only real problem is that modelling is still missing a few pieces of the puzzle - but it will get there eventually.


Though in recent years storage and sampling technology have progressed more quickly than processor and programming (modeling) technology in my view. No need to assume sampled pianos and the associated technology will not continue to improve as well. It appears that the best pianos will have some elements of both for some time. In my opinion the day when the best sounding pianos have no elements that have ever come through a mic is very distant. Not only will they need to overcome the hurdle of sounding like a piano, but then they will have to overcome the hurdle of sounding better than the acoustic pianos used in sampling, which are the product of hundreds of years of innovation.

Though I guess whatever tech the big three use to store their onboard sounds has not improved at a similar rate as the computer storage we use for software pianos--otherwise they would not continue to loop and compress--so perhaps you are right.

With respect to the price argument, in the spirit of nit picking I should point out that the processor hardware comprises a very tiny portion of the cost associated with, for example, the V piano. So processing speed gets cheaper that doesn't really affect the price of a V. The cost is in the programming and design, which is inherently (I believe) more expensive than the cost of sampling and then adding a few extras (like resonance, layer blending, etc.). So I don't see costs dropping for modeled pianos any faster than they do for sampled pianos, unless it be because of supply/demand considerations.


I was pretty much going on the figures ChrisA posted on the first page as an argument for why the Physis will be an expensive beast. It may not explain the V-piano's price but it might well explain the price of the Physis. 6 core processors are pricey. If Roland uses a proprietary chip, they have to recoup that cost too.

In any case, I suspect what is partially hindering the modelled piano concept is that it's being done by engineers with fatigued ears. I really think you can lose perspective of tone when you are hearing the same kids of sounds over and over again. (a bit like when you spend days mixing/mastering multi-tracked recordings). You start hearing things in a very different way. It seems to me that it's critical that the development team not be too overworked when developing a modelled piano. From what I can gather these modelled instruments are put together by very small R&D teams under a certain amount of pressure to get the product released. I'm not convinced they are getting, nor giving themselves, the necessary objective feedback about the tone. I mean, even basic spectral analysis should be able to point them in the direction of what might be missing from the sound. A model needs to resemble something in result terms, not just blindly go off the physical model calculations. If the result is off, something is amiss in the model. Hard to believe they can't work out what it is. Despite the hyperbole of the Physis demo, 100 parameters in a complex model is not really that many.

Of course, this is all speculation on my part. Just thinking out loud.

I still think Sampling will always be somewhat cumbersome because as you get closer to perfection, you also keep increasing the number of sample layers. That's not an ideal situation IMO.

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#1869623 - 03/28/12 05:23 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
Gigantoad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
Actually I think it explains the V-Piano price a bit. Consider the time it was released and the hardware that was available then. If this modelling business really takes so much processing power (which quite frankly I wasn't aware of) then the kind of hardware that required must have been pretty expensive. It would also possibly explain the size and weight of the thing.

I don't exactly see why so much processing power is needed to model a piano. In a time when consumer-grade CPU's and GPU's have plenty of power to run the most complex computer games or tons of VST's emulating whole synthesizers, effect racks, modelled guitar amps and whatnot, how come that isn't enough to model a piano? Something just doesn't add up.

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#1869652 - 03/28/12 07:34 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3798
Loc: North Carolina
I think it's hard to even begin to estimate the computing resources needed. Roland and Physis hold the algorithms as proprietary information.

You can't estimate the size of a hole needed if you don't know the size of the peg.

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#1869696 - 03/28/12 09:43 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: ChrisA]
kurtie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 207
Originally Posted By: ChrisA
From the description this would have to be an 6-core Intel Xeon type CPU. HP and Apple sell computers with this processor. Street prices are around $3,000 for either a PC or Mac with this CPU. So there is no way the piano is going to be cheap.


Apple sells very overpriced gear, not a valid comparison IMHO.

You can get an AMD hexacore @ 3.3Ghz base frequency in Europe for as little as 112 EUR a unit. And even a Intel Core i7-3930K, 6 cores, 12 threads, 3.2Ghz base freq. costs around 580$ when bought directly from Intel (you have to order thousands of them).

Anyway, I doubt it is an Intel because they don't do CPUs at 4Ghz stock frequency. I don't think Viscout is overclocking them (would be suicidal).The most similar CPU would be AMD FX6120, hexa core 3.6 Ghz base freq up to 4.2 Ghz with turbo, under 200$, but it is too new to be inside a real product right now. I would bet that they used some kind of DSPs instead of general purpose processors (as Creamware did for their Pulsar and Scope many years ago).

I am not saying that it is going to be cheap, it won't... but probably the action will be more expensive to manufacture than the CPU + RAM + MB together. Another cost is what they will be willing to charge for the modelling technology.

Regards,
Kurt.-


Edited by kurtie (03/28/12 09:45 AM)

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#1869711 - 03/28/12 10:01 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3798
Loc: North Carolina
Let's not go overboard in trying to assess the computing resources of this piano. All we have is a single description from pianoxcape ...
Quote:
There are 6 internal processors that run in 'parallel' using a linux-based system that runs the proprietary modeling algorithms of Physis.
... and a brief note on its capabilities ...
Quote:
Our engineers tell me that it can calculate 24 Billion computations per second.
I think it's premature to speculate based solely on such sparse information.

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#1869767 - 03/28/12 12:00 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
Epeios Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 28
Loc: France
Viscount already uses a 'physis' technology to make modeled pipe organs. They use up to 8 SHARC® DSP from Analog Devices powered by Linux for them.
Unlike the video in the original post, they write about cakes, and not cookies, but I think the technology used for their modeled organs should be somewhat related with the one used for their modeled pianos smile !

The physis organ WEB site : http://www.physisorgans.com/


Edited by Epeios (03/28/12 12:01 PM)
_________________________
V-Piano
YouTube : http://www.youtube.com/user/Panopeus/
WEB site : http://zeusw.org/ (French), http://zeusw.org/intl/ (~English)
eRISM (http://zeusw.org/intl/erism), to manage settings of Roland instruments.

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#1869797 - 03/28/12 01:04 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
pianoxcape Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 71
Loc: Cape Cod
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
pianoxcape,

Granted you are trying to promote this new instrument so any comparisons you may have with the V-piano or any digital piano will probably be biased in favor of the instrument you are helping to promote. However it is good to see competition for modeled piano market as I do agree it is the future. Your opinion is welcome in this forum and any comparisons you may have will also be welcome. However I too will reserve judgement until I get to play one in person with my own headphones....


Very well said, and wise advice. I will do my best to limit my responses to objective facts versus subjective preferences cool

Physis allows you to combine two sounds at once (and also split) - but not from the same sound bank. There are 6 sound banks in total - one for the physical model piano, one for electric piano physical model, one for mallets physical model, and 3 banks of sampled sounds. You can only layer/split using sounds from separate banks. So, you could use a physical model piano from bank 1 and layer it with a sample-based piano in bank 3 (or a slow strings sound, etc..)

As for your 2nd question regarding switching models during a piece - Yes, you can do this by using a pedal that is assigned to switch between model presets. So, for example, you go to a "B" section in a song where you'd like to use a new physical model piano, you can click the pedal which will take you to the next program/preset in your piano (and back again if you prefer). You can also adjust the parameters of the physical model in "realtime", but I noticed a slight 'hiccup' of a 1/2 second or so for the processor to catch up whenever you tweaked the parameters of the piano, making this not realistic if you wanted to switch 'instantaneously' during a piece of music.
_________________________
- Gary Girouard
Consultant for Viscount ("Physis" Physical-model piano; http://www.physispiano.com)
Pianist/Composer of "The Naked Piano" series (Free Music Samples http://www.garygirouardmusic.com)
Teacher, Entrepreneur...Parent

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#1869798 - 03/28/12 01:06 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: Kawai James]
pianoxcape Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 71
Loc: Cape Cod
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Thank you for your reply Gary.

Do you know the architecture/vendor of the CPU? For example, is it x86 or Risc based? Intel, AMD, ARM, etc.?
x


Texas Instruments processors...
_________________________
- Gary Girouard
Consultant for Viscount ("Physis" Physical-model piano; http://www.physispiano.com)
Pianist/Composer of "The Naked Piano" series (Free Music Samples http://www.garygirouardmusic.com)
Teacher, Entrepreneur...Parent

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#1869810 - 03/28/12 01:37 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: EssBrace]
pianoxcape Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 71
Loc: Cape Cod
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Thanks for contributing Gary.

One or two questions/comments:

Is the stand seen with the Physis Piano supplied with it? It looks very stable and it appears to be branded Physis Piano.

Have you any experience of the V-Piano? If so, please compare tone/touch and dynamics etc between Physis Piano and V-Piano.

Just how far/much is Viscount going to properly back the Physis Piano? In the UK, the supply chain and product support for most Italian brands has traditionally been very flaky and the last thing anyone wants is to spend lots of money on something they can never get fixed or get queries answered. The key action being Fatar is not good news - not because some of their actions aren't good but rather that Fatar are known for failing to offer good after sales support for their products.

If the price is even close to V-Piano then I think Viscount is wasting its time. The V-Piano comes from a very respected brand with an acknowledged track record. But even so, purely in terms of sales it has been a relative market failure, perhaps mainly due to the high price. Viscount will need to VERY CONSIDERABLY undercut Roland - in the UK I would say (regardless of how good it is) £3000 as an absolute maximum otherwise it is doomed to fail in my opinion - even at that price the going will be tough because Viscount/Physis is almost unknown.

All that said, it sounds ok to me and I'll look forward to trying one out one day.

Cheers,

Steve


Hi Steve - will try to answer your questions to the best of my knowledge.

1. There are two types of stands available for the Physis Piano - the one you see in the video is a stage model, and there's also one with built in amplification and speakers (and sound bar) designed for the home
2. I've spent some time playing the V-Piano, but I do not own one myself. I'm very intrigued by physical modeling, so I've enjoyed playing the V-Piano since it was released. For both Physis and the V-Piano, I find that under my fingers physical modeling gives me a more direct connection to the sound. I can use dynamics and technique to create subtle colors that just aren't possible with sampled sounds. The sound really comes "alive" - that's the only way I can explain it for me. This is the power of physical modeling and it will only get better as more artists and engineers tweak the parameters of the physical models. You asked my opinion, so what I write here is just that: for sound, Physis is more accurate to an acoustic piano. The V-Piano sounds more 'synthetic' to my ears. For touch, I don't see a hands-down favorite as both are very nice - both are using wooden keys with ivory-sense key tops. Physis uses 3 sensors per key instead of 2 which (the company claims) should provide a more accurate, precise key strike - this is subjective so each person has to determine for themselves which is better.

The two biggest differences I see between the V-Piano and Physis are these:
1. Physis piano weighs much less than the V-Piano (59 lbs for wood-key version, 46 lbs for plastic-key version -- V-Piano is 84 lbs)
2. Physis piano has SIX sound engines - 5 physical models (Piano, Rhodes, Wurly, Clavi, Mallets + 1GB Sampled sound engine) and allows splits and layers: V-Piano has piano only

Kind regards,
_________________________
- Gary Girouard
Consultant for Viscount ("Physis" Physical-model piano; http://www.physispiano.com)
Pianist/Composer of "The Naked Piano" series (Free Music Samples http://www.garygirouardmusic.com)
Teacher, Entrepreneur...Parent

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#1869826 - 03/28/12 02:01 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Many thanks Gary for your response. I have to admit I'm intrigued and will be watching with lots of interest!

Cheers,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1869833 - 03/28/12 02:15 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
Gigantoad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
I don't understand why all the demos use the same overly bright (at least to my ears) sound? Surely the sound can be edited in many ways, why not provide a little variety.

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#1869836 - 03/28/12 02:20 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I agree it sounds very bright and rather metallic - but it is not unpleasant in the few demos I've heard.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1869878 - 03/28/12 04:24 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3798
Loc: North Carolina
I agree. This is a pop piano sound. Can it be made more mellow?

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#1869906 - 03/28/12 05:18 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9013
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thank you for your open responses Gary.

I wasn't aware that the V-Piano uses wooden keys though...

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1869920 - 03/28/12 05:42 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I think Gary has mistakenly suggested the V-Piano action is wooden and has two sensors...it is plastic and has three sensors.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1869936 - 03/28/12 06:13 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pianoxcape]
alekkh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 205
Originally Posted By: pianoxcape

You asked my opinion, so what I write here is just that: for sound, Physis is more accurate to an acoustic piano. The V-Piano sounds more 'synthetic' to my ears.


pianoxcape, I carefully listened to the 5 wav files on Physis site through BD DT880 phones. The provided WAVs do an excellent job revealing the Physis character.

Which allows me to completely disagree that the metallic sounding Physis is a closer acoustic emulation than V-Piano. In fact, one can easily make V-Piano sound somewhat like Physis by putting hammer hardness and resonance too high...

I bet that if Physis team were to provide two WAV files, one recorded on Physis and one on any decent acoustic piano of their choice, everyone on this forum would be able to identify the Physis file 100% of the time.



Edited by alekkh (03/28/12 07:33 PM)

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#1870113 - 03/29/12 02:49 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: alekkh]
Gigantoad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
Originally Posted By: alekkh
Originally Posted By: pianoxcape

You asked my opinion, so what I write here is just that: for sound, Physis is more accurate to an acoustic piano. The V-Piano sounds more 'synthetic' to my ears.


pianoxcape, I carefully listened to the 5 wav files on Physis site through BD DT880 phones. The provided WAVs do an excellent job revealing the Physis character.

Which allows me to completely disagree that the metallic sounding Physis is a closer acoustic emulation than V-Piano. In fact, one can easily make V-Piano sound somewhat like Physis by putting hammer hardness and resonance too high...

I bet that if Physis team were to provide two WAV files, one recorded on Physis and one on any decent acoustic piano of their choice, everyone on this forum would be able to identify the Physis file 100% of the time.



Likewise with the V-Piano. Besides, has Roland ever provided such a comparison? Of course not.

But I get it, one needs to defend their own investments. I just wish objectivity wouldn't completely disintegrate in the process.

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#1870170 - 03/29/12 07:49 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: Gigantoad]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Gigantoad

But I get it, one needs to defend their own investments. I just wish objectivity wouldn't completely disintegrate in the process.


Never a truer word written...
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1870190 - 03/29/12 08:27 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: Gigantoad]
alekkh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 205
Originally Posted By: Gigantoad
Originally Posted By: alekkh
Originally Posted By: pianoxcape

You asked my opinion, so what I write here is just that: for sound, Physis is more accurate to an acoustic piano. The V-Piano sounds more 'synthetic' to my ears.


pianoxcape, I carefully listened to the 5 wav files on Physis site through BD DT880 phones. The provided WAVs do an excellent job revealing the Physis character.

Which allows me to completely disagree that the metallic sounding Physis is a closer acoustic emulation than V-Piano. In fact, one can easily make V-Piano sound somewhat like Physis by putting hammer hardness and resonance too high...

I bet that if Physis team were to provide two WAV files, one recorded on Physis and one on any decent acoustic piano of their choice, everyone on this forum would be able to identify the Physis file 100% of the time.



Likewise with the V-Piano. Besides, has Roland ever provided such a comparison? Of course not.

But I get it, one needs to defend their own investments. I just wish objectivity wouldn't completely disintegrate in the process.


"has Roland ever provided such a comparison? Of course not."

Of course they did. Know your facts before accusing anyone.
Go to YouTube, search Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2. Compare V-Piano Grand with a dozen performances on real pianos. Side by side.


"Likewise with the V-Piano" - seriously? I would not bet my house on calling a real piano vs V-Piano from two WAVs. With V-Piano, I *may* make a mistake in some music pieces.

With Physis it's a safe bet. Listen to Physis wavs. Then dial some good piano recording on YouTube. Is Physis like them?

If you answer yes, then go for it and buy Physis. I am not going to stop you, on the contrary, I would be genuinely interested to hear what you think after owning it for a few months.

PS
"I just wish objectivity wouldn't completely disintegrate in the process."

You wish. Anything coming from a human subject is always subjective. Not objective. Live with it.


Edited by alekkh (03/29/12 08:29 AM)

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#1870199 - 03/29/12 08:57 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: alekkh]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3182
Originally Posted By: alekkh
"has Roland ever provided such a comparison? Of course not."

Of course they did. Know your facts before accusing anyone.
Go to YouTube, search Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2. Compare V-Piano Grand with a dozen performances on real pianos. Side by side.

In all fairness, no, Roland has never provided such a comparison. I did. ;-)

Roland did post a piece that has been recorded many times on real pianos. In fact, many (most?) DPs have demo classical pieces built into them, so you could hear them playing the same piece as you could find recorded somewhere on a real acoustic piano.

What I did (in another post a while back) was provide a youtube link that I thought provided an interesting comparison to Roland's, because it was the one I found that I thought the Roland demo was closest to (though still falls behind).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H99FM6S8rU

and Roland's is at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0-dC7eT_Oo

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#1870202 - 03/29/12 09:05 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: alekkh]
Gigantoad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
Originally Posted By: alekkh

"has Roland ever provided such a comparison? Of course not."

Of course they did. Know your facts before accusing anyone.
Go to YouTube, search Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2. Compare V-Piano Grand with a dozen performances on real pianos. Side by side.


Right, of course. Your beloved Rhapsody. If that qualifies as a side by side comparison in your eyes then there are a heck of a lot of such comparisons available on YouTube. Of course they all have different audio quality, different ways of recording, different quality of playing, different room acoustics and so on and so forth. What exactly is "side by side" here?

I'll tell you what "side by side" usually means: same pianist plays the same piece under the same recording conditions on the same stage or studio on different pianos. To my knowledge that doesn't happen very often.

Asking this of the makers of Physis Piano is a little absurd, especially since they've just come out with this product and there are hardly any demos available at all yet. You jumping to dramatic conclusions just because someone attacked your precious V-Piano again just screams "protect investment"!

Oh and before you accuse me of being a V-Piano hater, I'm really not. I'm actually considering to buy one myself.

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