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#2045525 - 03/09/13 02:22 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: Aeons Holle]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Thank You Aeon for mentioning Your upcoming review to the True Keys Pianos - I regard Your opinion always as very well founded.

Another question: do You have an opinion about how RM3(I/II) and the GF keyboards compare (Playability, responsiveness, smooth touch - perhaps over there in the VPC or CA15 topics...)

Thx
_________________________
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#2046623 - 03/11/13 06:36 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: dewster]
R_B Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 503
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Do you really think many users would want to individually adjust the hammer hardness separately for all 88 notes? And all the other parameters as well?

Absolutely! And particularly so in a 100% modeled instrument. Use constrained random functions on each key parameter to make each key sound slightly different from the others, like in a real piano. Also, if some internal preset parameter is giving you a sour note or group of notes, you can maybe open the hood and fix it. Am I otherwise going to go in there and twiddle these things? Probably not. Will I demo presets made by others crazy enough to do so? Most likely.


I am fairly sure Pianoteq has a randomize function, though I haven't looked into it so I don't know what it can be applied to (or how).

Certainly the user group has a lot of pre-sets that anyone can download to enjoy - and I do.
I have no way of knowing how closely any particular FXP approaches a PHYSICAL Bosendorfer, Steinway, Bluethner, or Rhodes (Ahh, emulation of an old time emulator) but I enjoy them.

Sound experimentation in my view is a whole 'nother pastime, I enjoy listening in on others' efforts once in a while, but mostly enjoy (trying to) play.

EDIT:
I just went to the pianoteq user forum to check with a quick search for "randomize".
I can't reproduce it all here, but a member (who is also a piano tuner) describes how he introduces various imperfections to more closely approach physical pianos. One response is that he is making a "new" piano sound more "used" and I think that may be an aspect of realism that some folk find missing in sampled as well as modelled pianos (DPs too).

"Removing excess perfection" may be analgous to making plastic more "wood like" and I don't mean just adding fake grain and texture, although those were the first steps (-:


Edited by R_B (03/11/13 07:41 PM)

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#2050253 - 03/18/13 01:37 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: R_B]
Steinway170 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 27
Loc: Italy
For who may be interested, there is a new version 1.1 just released for the Physis. I have download it and installed on my piano. There are many new preset and further improved acoustic piano sound particularly noticeable when using the sustain pedal. Great improvement also with the electric piano. I suggest that you make sure the new version is installed when testing the Physis. I understand from Viscount, that the software road map include monthly update at the moment.

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#2050280 - 03/18/13 02:34 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
voxpops Online   content
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Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3050
Loc: Oregon
That's interesting. It sounds like Viscount released the Physis before it was quite ready for prime-time. It's encouraging that improvements are happening now, and are to be a regular feature, but I hope they didn't shoot themselves in the foot by having a substandard product on the showroom floor at the beginning.
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#2050289 - 03/18/13 02:58 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3216
Originally Posted By: voxpops
That's interesting. It sounds like Viscount released the Physis before it was quite ready for prime-time. It's encouraging that improvements are happening now, and are to be a regular feature, but I hope they didn't shoot themselves in the foot by having a substandard product on the showroom floor at the beginning.

I wouldn't presume it was released prematurely just because their are rapid and/or frequent updates. In a sense, in these days of software based instruments, almost no product is ever "done" - it's more a matter of "we have to get something shipped" intersecting with "we have a usable product here." Nord, Korg, Kurzweil, have all come out with software updates that, besides offering new features, also fixed bugs, but I don't think that translates to having released the boards prematurely. It's good that the Physis was built with significant field upgradability in the design. If it works reliably and sounds good out of the box, I'd say they did their job well, and then future enhancements are icing.

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#2050294 - 03/18/13 03:11 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3050
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: voxpops
That's interesting. It sounds like Viscount released the Physis before it was quite ready for prime-time. It's encouraging that improvements are happening now, and are to be a regular feature, but I hope they didn't shoot themselves in the foot by having a substandard product on the showroom floor at the beginning.

I wouldn't presume it was released prematurely just because their are rapid and/or frequent updates. In a sense, in these days of software based instruments, almost no product is ever "done" - it's more a matter of "we have to get something shipped" intersecting with "we have a usable product here." Nord, Korg, Kurzweil, have all come out with software updates that, besides offering new features, also fixed bugs, but I don't think that translates to having released the boards prematurely. It's good that the Physis was built with significant field upgradability in the design. If it works reliably and sounds good out of the box, I'd say they did their job well, and then future enhancements are icing.

If you've read the posts above that are critical of the demos heard when the product was released, then you might conclude that with upgrades that impact the way the models sound taking place so soon after launch, the initial release may have been a mite early. First impressions and all that...
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#2050328 - 03/18/13 04:22 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: anotherscott]
dewster Offline
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Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4345
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Nord, Korg, Kurzweil, have all come out with software updates that, besides offering new features, also fixed bugs...

I know software is where the lion's share of the complexity lies, but IMO bugs of any sort are prima facie evidence of premature release (also unpopular with the ladies!).
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#2050337 - 03/18/13 04:49 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: dewster]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 718
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Originally Posted By: dewster
premature release (also unpopular with the ladies!).


Haha laugh
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#2050380 - 03/18/13 05:50 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: dewster]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3216
Originally Posted By: dewster
I know software is where the lion's share of the complexity lies, but IMO bugs of any sort are prima facie evidence of premature release

Complex software is rarely bug free. And a company can go out of business waiting until they have everything perfect (that is, never shipping anything). Heck, if Microsoft didn't come out with Windows until it was bug free, we'd still be waiting for Windows 1.0 ;-) Really, Nord and Kurzweil, whose boards are generally above the norm in many respects, have still released updates with bug fixes years after the associated keyboards first shipped. And I bet they still have unfixed bugs in them!

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#2050403 - 03/18/13 06:28 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Online   content
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Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3050
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: dewster
I know software is where the lion's share of the complexity lies, but IMO bugs of any sort are prima facie evidence of premature release

Complex software is rarely bug free. And a company can go out of business waiting until they have everything perfect (that is, never shipping anything). Heck, if Microsoft didn't come out with Windows until it was bug free, we'd still be waiting for Windows 1.0 ;-) Really, Nord and Kurzweil, whose boards are generally above the norm in many respects, have still released updates with bug fixes years after the associated keyboards first shipped. And I bet they still have unfixed bugs in them!

I accept all that, but it sounds like we're talking more than bug fixes here, but changes to way the Physis sounds and responds.

It is being marketed as a premium product, costing thousands, and in direct competition to Roland's V-Piano. It would make sense to hold off releasing until you have the sound and response as good as it possibly can be, so that you don't disappoint or put off potential or actual customers. If you turn people off at the outset, they frequently don't come back for a second look.

I understand the point about companies trying to release as soon as they have a usable product, and needing to start to generate cash flow, but this is not a $50 piece of software. It is a flagship product, and you don't want to be seen to be playing catch up so soon after the launch of such a product. For example, it took a while for Toyota to rebuild trust in their products after the recalls of a few years back, and Viscount does not, I presume, have Toyota's deep pockets or reach. I'm not saying that there are fundamental flaws or things that are insurmountable with software updates, but simply that you need to create a positive impression with an untried product from the get-go.
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#2050499 - 03/18/13 09:20 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3216
Originally Posted By: voxpops
It is being marketed as a premium product, costing thousands, and in direct competition to Roland's V-Piano. It would make sense to hold off releasing until you have the sound and response as good as it possibly can be

It may be years before it is as good as it can possibly be. The question would be, i think, whether it is currently something a reasonable percentage of potential customers may prefer to the V-Piano. Once it crosses that threshold, that's when I'd say it sounds good enough to ship. The big question is whether or not it has crossed that threshold!

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#2050503 - 03/18/13 09:28 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3050
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
The question would be, i think, whether it is currently something a reasonable percentage of potential customers may prefer to the V-Piano. Once it crosses that threshold, that's when I'd say it sounds good enough to ship. The big question is whether or not it has crossed that threshold!

That is indeed the big question!
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#2050614 - 03/19/13 03:03 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
Steinway170 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 27
Loc: Italy
As a user of Physis, I would like to clarify (my opinion) that the piano was already great "sound wise" with version 1.0 and that these regular software upgrades are to be considered clearly as a bonus. The new version is not about fixing bugs but optimizing sounds preset or improving the user interface. The company have probably focused more on the basic Accustic Piano sound preset in the first version, making available a large library of different sound family (from organ, violin, brass, clavinet, vibraphone....) that I think can be optimized or at the moment need to be edited for slight changes and saved in Physis memory. I have contacted Viscount "after sales" team and provided some personal suggestions or desiderata on ways to make the instrument more user friendly (particularly for live playing, based on my long experience with Stage piano). From the first feedbacks I received, I am getting the perception that this small company is very reactive and collaborative and I just wanted to highlight in this forum, for who is interested, or just curious about the technology or may be considering purchasing this new instrument, that the technology seems flexible enough to allow regular update through easy software download. I understand that Viscount will release regular update with new or modified sound preset. This is I think a great value added for Physical modelling based technology compared to what typical sampling based piano brand is offering today. Hopefully this should further extend the life and the value of this outstanding keyboard.

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#2050859 - 03/19/13 01:53 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: anotherscott]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4345
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Heck, if Microsoft didn't come out with Windows until it was bug free, we'd still be waiting for Windows 1.0 ;-)

You say that like it would be a bad thing.

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Really, Nord and Kurzweil, whose boards are generally above the norm in many respects, have still released updates with bug fixes years after the associated keyboards first shipped. And I bet they still have unfixed bugs in them!

Bugs are perhaps somewhat less embarrassing in conventional SW where the install/uninstall process is fairly painless, but firmware bugs are often there forever - few people have the expertise to update firmware, and many of those who do are fearful of bricking.

The reason we have so many bugs is sloppy programmers, sloppy QA, and management with their false deadlines and time-to-market nonsense. Funny how there's never any time to do it right the first time, but plenty of time to fix bugs post release, after the whole world has incrementally lost confidence in the company and their entire product line. First to market is no panacea, someone can always come along later and eat your lunch by doing it better (/faster/cheaper with slave labor).
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#2050927 - 03/19/13 03:27 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: dewster]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3216
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Heck, if Microsoft didn't come out with Windows until it was bug free, we'd still be waiting for Windows 1.0 ;-)

You say that like it would be a bad thing.

Point taken! And I guess almost everyone would be using Macs. ;-)

Originally Posted By: dewster
The reason we have so many bugs is sloppy programmers, sloppy QA, and management with their false deadlines and time-to-market nonsense. Funny how there's never any time to do it right the first time, but plenty of time to fix bugs post release

Again, since most complex software is never completely bug free, and also because companies need to be able to sell something, it's a matter of reaching a threshold of "useful enough to ship" as opposed to "perfect." Also, a lot of bugs aren't even known when things are shipped. And a lot of bugs are never fixed. (Hello, Studiologic!) So it's not simply a matter of "no time before, and plenty of time after."

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#2050975 - 03/19/13 04:38 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: anotherscott]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: dewster

The reason we have so many bugs is sloppy programmers, sloppy QA, and management with their false deadlines and time-to-market nonsense. Funny how there's never any time to do it right the first time, but plenty of time to fix bugs post release

Again, since most complex software is never completely bug free, and also because companies need to be able to sell something, it's a matter of reaching a threshold of "useful enough to ship" as opposed to "perfect." Also, a lot of bugs aren't even known when things are shipped. And a lot of bugs are never fixed. (Hello, Studiologic!) So it's not simply a matter of "no time before, and plenty of time after."


Most? Make that all and you're there. smile Seriously though, beyond certain complexity level, any software will contain bugs regardless of how much time you spend testing it. If it's not the program you wrote, it may be the libraries and other chunks of code somebody else may have written... I know -- I have been doing that for a living for years. So, from now on, every time you hear someone say their software is completely bug-free, you may put on a big wide smile because you know better. laugh After all -- the disclaimer saying the given company is "not responsible for any loss of profit or damage as a result of using the software" is there for a reason.

And just for the record -- I am quite certain that software running on the Physis computing signals and waveforms on the fly and taking on input many variables does qualify as "complex enough."


Edited by Clayman (03/19/13 04:42 PM)
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#2051197 - 03/20/13 05:50 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: Clayman]
Cmin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 229
Loc: Swabia
Well, getting back to the topic.... PHYSIS!
Here is a new offer from Thomann. The Physis Piano PLUS. All I can tell is that the pedals are included. Or do you see a difference?
Whatever... it's a piece of art, no matter what is ranted here. If only it weren't so expensive I'd go for it.
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#2051245 - 03/20/13 09:15 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: anotherscott]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4345
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
And I guess almost everyone would be using Macs. ;-)

You say that like it would be a good thing.

I guess I'm struggling on multiple fronts with what to do now that XP is shuffling out the door. If any software should emphatically not be proprietary it's operating systems. Some day we'll all be on Linux, and the sooner the better.
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#2051322 - 03/20/13 12:07 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: Cmin]
voxpops Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3050
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Whatever... it's a piece of art, no matter what is ranted here. If only it weren't so expensive I'd go for it.


But that's the whole point, isn't it? You won't buy it at the price it is.

How many people are prepared to move heaven and earth, if necessary, to raise the 3,500+ euros to purchase it? It would surely have to be so good in reality that people would overlook its provenance, its lack of track record, its somewhat deficient early demos, etc. However, if it were priced to compete with existing stage pianos, I believe there would be more risk-takers.
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#2051338 - 03/20/13 12:34 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
New technology / early adapters = always premium price and uncertainty.

When you're in front of the line of buyers with some completely new developed product , you always subsidies the R&D and swallow all the potential bugs and design mistakes to pave the way for the more cautious buyers who wait for version 2 or 3 and a lowering of the price when the initial R&D costs have been earned back.

Thats always how it works. Only very big and wealthy corporations can introduce new products for a bargain price by subsidizing and taking a loss as long as they can penetrate the market and extend their market share. Hello Microsoft, Sony and alike...

At least by providing regular improvements and fixes through updates they seem serious in making this thing work for the first buyers. That's also the big advantage of a software (algorithm ) based instruments. It's far easier to continue developing the concept - as opposed to fixed samples in ROM. That's how all software companies work. In fact the Physis is more like a software instrument than a hardware synth. Korg Kronos is something similar (Linux kernel).

Last note: with all the Kurzweils I had, I performed so many OS updates I lost count. It never hung, or bricked the machine(s) as suggested here. Just provided me with more nice features , sounds and/or bug fixes (most often even handn't noticed the bug in the first place). I regard that as service to the customer, not a basically flawed business model.

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#2051340 - 03/20/13 12:36 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
voxpops Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3050
Loc: Oregon
Following on from my previous post, I think Casio offers a classic example of how to approach the market. Until the turn of the century, Casio had a reputation of being an efficient calculator and toy instrument maker (oversimplification, but you get the point). Then they introduced the Privia range at ultra-reasonable prices, and started to improve their standing in the domestic/educational market, as well as gaining a toehold in the stage arena. At this stage, people were still skeptical (look back at posts and reviews from the early 2000s), but those who were prepared to brave the sidelong glances, giggles and taunts knew that they were getting one heck of a deal.

Fast-forward a few years, and the latest Casios are being compared favorably with pianos that cost twice as much, and many pro players are placing orders for the PX-5S. At $999, it's a bargain, along with the PX-350 at $800 - but consider that my PX-310 cost less than $400 in 2006, and, despite a major recession, Casio has doubled the price of their equivalent product in seven years. That's the product of realism and a firm commitment to raising their own bar.

Now I'm not suggesting that Viscount should offer the Physis for a few hundred. But I am saying that a company with little in the way of a track record needs to consider the market, start with a realistic view of pricing based on their current standing, and then, as their stock appreciates, take advantage of the goodwill they've generated.

This, of course, is a personal view based on nothing more than observing the keyboard industry over time. I am no expert at anything to do with sales or marketing, and Viscount could well prove me totally wrong - and good luck to them in that case.
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#2051348 - 03/20/13 12:46 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
I agree, but I'm sure they just don't have deep enough pockets to sell it cheap and take a loss for a while. It's the chicken and egg story. They choose the chicken and went for the price that will pocket some money back now on each purchase and take the gamble there will be enough units sold to cover some of the cost.

No bank is eager at this moment to lend them the money to aggressively penetrate the market by selling at a loss to get units moved to the customer. Sorry banking crisis / 10 years ago ...maybe ...

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#2051351 - 03/20/13 12:52 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: JFP]
voxpops Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3050
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: JFP
New technology / early adapters = always premium price and uncertainty.

When you're in front of the line of buyers with some completely new developed product , you always subsidies the R&D and swallow all the potential bugs and design mistakes to pave the way for the more cautious buyers who wait for version 2 or 3 and a lowering of the price when the initial R&D costs have been earned back.


That's true. But most people are only willing to do that if it truly gives them something new that they can't achieve any other way. Ask yourself how much a Studiologic controller (with the same action as the Physis) plus a laptop with Pianoteq would cost versus the Physis.

Quote:
Thats always how it works. Only very big and wealthy corporations can introduce new products for a bargain price by subsidizing and taking a loss as long as they can penetrate the market and extend their market share. Hello Microsoft, Sony and alike...

Again, true. But how many small companies can afford to price themselves out of the market?

Quote:
At least by providing regular improvements and fixes through updates they seem serious in making this thing work for the first buyers. That's also the big advantage of a software (algorithm ) based instruments. It's far easier to continue developing the concept - as opposed to fixed samples in ROM. That's how all software companies work. In fact the Physis is more like a software instrument than a hardware synth. Korg Kronos is something similar (Linux kernel).

The commitment to updates is certainly welcome and reassuring. But again, if you want a software-based piano with lots of extra goodies, try the Korg Krome at $1,599. (Edit: of course the Krome is still a sample-based instrument, so not a great analogy.)



Edited by voxpops (03/20/13 01:01 PM)
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#2051366 - 03/20/13 01:19 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: JFP]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4345
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: JFP
At least by providing regular improvements and fixes through updates they seem serious in making this thing work for the first buyers.

I guess I'm a glass half empty guy when it comes to embedded firmware churn. Honestly, fixing bugs is the very least they can do. I'd also like a sincere apology for my aggravation and some money for my wasted time. We've all become too complacent when it comes to lax software development.

A bit more on-topic: the inclination with a new product line is to go for the jugular with a sky's-the-limit kitchen sink flagship and blow everyone away. But my god you have to really over deliver when taking that approach. At this point I wouldn't recommend it for something based on pure AP modeling - even if you 100% nail it (unlikely) there will be a substantial group of "it sounds fake" detractors, if only due to listener bias. I wish the Physis project the best.
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#2052055 - 03/21/13 05:01 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
Steinway170 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 27
Loc: Italy
I consider myself as a new user in this forum and I must say that I am really surprised how a new musical instrument introduction could generate such a broad discussion. I am still a little frustrated that this forum doesn't look (yet) at the quality of ihe instrument from a musician stand point, Does the Physis piano better suit pianist requirements from a pure musical standpoint? More expression, enhanced sensitivity, easy playing, good feeling on the key bed, enjoyable sound, mechanically suitable with typical pianistic technic????? I am looking forward to eventually hear musicians feedback? I guess this forum is not only about software and value for money but also about music! From my point of view the Physis is definitely the best fake musical piano instrument I had a chance to play with so far !

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#2052059 - 03/21/13 05:09 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
voxpops Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3050
Loc: Oregon
I hear what you're saying, Steinway 170, but unfortunately many of us (particularly on this side of the world) have not had a chance to try the Physis yet. If it is indeed the most remarkable and authentic DP yet produced, then once that becomes common experience, its reputation will grow. But where people might take a chance on an instrument that costs $1k or even $2k, few will be willing or able to purchase a $5k instrument without serious investigation and testing.
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#2052258 - 03/22/13 03:23 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: voxpops]
Steinway170 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 27
Loc: Italy
Understood Voxpop. I forgot we are talking about a product that is barely diffused yet and not many musicians had a chance to test in proper conditions. I will be patient and will remain open to any questions or curiosity from any of you regarding the instrument. I just wanted to highligh the point that most of the accoustic musiciens before purchasing a new instrument (brass, sax, trumpet, violin, piano ...)would spend a lot of time testing it for very small shading, nuance, sound tint, touch differentiation; looking for the best possible feeling to optimize playing and expression. Someone is willing to pay twice the price for an instrument versus the other for subjective and personal parameters. In some way, I think that; at the level of qualitity reached by the technology today, a Digital piano could in some way deserve similar treatment.

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#2052390 - 03/22/13 10:44 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: Steinway170]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4345
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Steinway170
I am still a little frustrated that this forum doesn't look (yet) at the quality of ihe instrument from a musician stand point ... I guess this forum is not only about software and value for money but also about music!

If you look around you'll find musicians here who comment on the way keys feel, how connected the action seems to the sound source, what the piano voice qualitatively sounds like, etc. The thing is, key actions get used in many models, as do sound generators and sample sets, so it's often just a rehash of the same old stuff in a new-ish box.

DPs can be more than the sum of their parts, but those parts are generally well defined things like processors, memory, sample sets, keys, speakers, amps, etc. each of which can have very specific limitations. There's also a lot of paid for happy talk and many professional "reviews" out there that need countering with hard reality. People pay a lot for DPs, they should know what they are getting.

Originally Posted By: Steinway170
I just wanted to highligh the point that most of the accoustic musiciens before purchasing a new instrument (brass, sax, trumpet, violin, piano ...)would spend a lot of time testing it for very small shading, nuance, sound tint, touch differentiation; looking for the best possible feeling to optimize playing and expression. ... In some way, I think that; at the level of qualitity reached by the technology today, a Digital piano could in some way deserve similar treatment.

Except for modeled sound engines like those in Physis, Pianoteq, V-Piano, and I suppose Roland SN (decay phase), I don't think DPs are generally at the point where musicians should approach them like acoustic instruments. For one thing they are assembly line products with very little if any variation between identically labeled items. For another they tend to be designed from fairly stagnant technology.
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#2052410 - 03/22/13 11:36 AM Re: Physis Piano [Re: pv88]
Jake Jackson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 580
Loc: Atlanta, GA
I hope that people will post more audio samples of the Physis piano, even if they are created with using midi files (there are good midi files created from live performances) or simply recordings of individual sustained notes, or chords. I worry that we are discussing the limitations of various technologies and concerns based on the GeneralMusic\GEM story largely because we do not have what we actually need before we can have much of a discussion at all--more recordings.

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#2052627 - 03/22/13 05:23 PM Re: Physis Piano [Re: dewster]
Steinway170 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 27
Loc: Italy

Except for modeled sound engines like those in Physis, Pianoteq, V-Piano, and I suppose Roland SN (decay phase), I don't think DPs are generally at the point where musicians should approach them like acoustic instruments. For one thing they are assembly line products with very little if any variation between identically labeled items. For another they tend to be designed from fairly stagnant technology. [/quote]

Agree with one addition: each musician have more or less sensitivity. I personally feel differences between keyboards even DPs from same brand . A same model built few months later could show slightly different key bed mechanical adjustment. A small difference in the height of the key could make your playing more or less fluid and easy. I have many example of instruments I really enjoyed playing that rational analysis cannot explain The new generation modelled sound can be quite sensitive to the force you exercise on each note and I am sure that if you have 3 pianos in front of you, there will be enough difference to make a musician prefer one versus the other. I guess, a lot has to do with the style of music you play and the technicality.

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