Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Kawai RX-2BLK or Young Chang YP-185... Or Hailun 178/198?

I may get flamed for this, but for the price (price being the important point here), I did not like the RX2, particularly the bass. The action, however, is very, very good.

Based on the pianos you're looking at, I'd suggest you look at the 6'2" models by Brodmann and Ritmuller, if you can find them in your local area. Other than that, of the pianos you listed, I would probably lean toward the larger Young Chang. But I'd prefer either Brodmann or Rit over any of them.

In any event, the point is to buy something YOU are happy with, so take my opinion as simply that - an individual opinion.

Good luck,
Mike

I am a little confused by the Young Chang models and there is not much information available or good You
Tube videos to help with a buying decision but here is what I have been offered recently: A dealer has an RX-2 BLAK from Kawai on order. He will sell it to me for $20,000 after he preps it. Or, he has a 2012 Albert Weber AW76RSES in satin ebony which he will sell for $21,000! Albert Weber is Young Chang's premium line according to their website and they are advertising that several prominant venues in New York City have installed these premium pianos recently. The Alber Weber is 7'6" while the Kawai RX-2 BLAK is only 5'10". I am impressed with the Kawai's reputation, have watched the website videos, etc. and believe it is one of the best-selling pianos, but this Albert Weber is a real beast! I am just trying to get more information about Young Chang, Albert Weber, and so on. Will it hold up? Is anyone able to give personal experiences with these pianos? Are they about the same as the Prambergers made by YC in the past before Samick got the rights to the name? I am really leaning toward the bigger piano, but I want to wait to play the RX-2 when it comes in. I have played a lot of high-end pianos and even among the C.Bechsteins, the Bosies, the Schimmels, etc, I favored the bigger pianos, but the price!!! I am not trying to hijack the OP but since the Young Chang was in consideration, I thought I would add my insight.

No worries. :-)


Wish I lived close-by and had the room to fit it. That sounds like a great deal. Its (new) SMP is $48,144.

What I heard was that the current YP series (and AW) share the same design as the old Prambergers, but YP will soon be merged with AW. See https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...iano%20Buyer%20Now%20On.html#Post1868863

Thinking that this is no longer a contest.

Norbert

SGAO,
The opinions of all of us in terms of tone are personal. I don't think we can help you in that sense.

The following are undeniable facts that may help you with your decision.

The Kawai RX series is a line of pianos that has been available for about 15 years. The curve of developing of this line has been consistent and very positive.
This is something that Young Chang simply doesn't offer because of all the changes with the brand ocurred over the recent years as they bounced from one ownership to other.
I don't mean to say that the Young Chang is a very generic instrument but doesn't come close to a well developed product such as the RX series.

The action of the Kawai is unquestionable.
The re-sale value of the Kawai is also higher hands-down.

These are facts.
Best Regards,

Would be nice to substantiate this.
Care to elaborate?

In this case Dell can do no better that designing "very generic" piano sound.

Not being dealer for either make, I have played these pianos few times before myself.

Respectfully beg to differ.

Norbert

My Hailun 198 is #36660 and I bought it in May 2010 (in Toronto).

I was originally planning on getting the 1789 buyt was offered what I thought was a great price on the 198 and I'm very glad that I chose it over the 178.

And I'd also check out the Brodmann if you can since they are very impressive indeed.

The reason why I went with Hailun was because the quality and sound really impressed me and the price difference compared to a Kawai or Yamaha (which I'm not a fan of anyways) meant that I could get a significantly larger piano for the same price.

Kurtmen, thanks for the input. I do think that RX2 is a great instrument, and will be a "safe" purchase. At the same time, it's hard to ignore candidates like YP185/HG198, which are both cheaper and bigger, and, very importantly, have received good reviews from many folks here. Not an easy decision.

Sparky, yeah, that "05730" number is very puzzling. I'd probably ask for a new one if I do decide to buy Hailun.

Yea I would because apparently Hailun is constantly improving their models.
My only regret is that I could not afford to buy the Hailun 218 (or the Brodmann 212) because once you get a piano that hits 7 feet for some reason they really start to come alive.
I've never known anyone to regret buying a piano too large but lots of people regret buying one not large enough.
I may still trade up in the future if I ever can afford it.
As it is I'm extremely glad I went with the 198 instead of the 178 because I know I would not have been satisfied knowing that it would have only cost me a few thousand more for the extra 20 cm.
Always make sure you can play the exact piano that you are going to buy instead of buying one sight unseen. This goes for any brand that you are considering.

Remember that when you are buying a new piano, you are buying something that you are going to have for a long time, even a lifetime.
You need to choose wisely and consider not only the musical and expressive qualities of the piano in relation to sound and touch, but the durability of the instrument and the history and reputation of the company which produced it.

A new grand piano is a significant investment and the brand name and model will always influence its resale value.

In brief, my advice is to choose the piano that not only appeals most to you for its sound and touch, but which also provides assurance of reputation and brand name.

Good luck for your decision.

Robert.

I always tell my own customers to play as many pianos as possible.

I also make them aware that as pianos in similar leagues are often priced differently, it can create serious confusion.

For example, we recently sold a certain brand only to have customer come back a second time and decide on another one.

The piano he chose was over $15,000 cheaper but customer suddenly liked it even better than the more expensive piano he had decided on before.

In reverse, piano buyers have to ask themselves "how much better" a piano of higher price really is and if it's really worth spending the extra doe.

When someone shops in the 15-18 k range and ends up buying another brand for $ 25,000 later, he often has not checked what he could have gotten for same $ in first line up of pianos.

Outside simple brand name recognition, I know of no other product where someone would be willing to pay so much more without actually "getting" more.

So this "getting more" is for people to find out themselves.

It it can be a "very revealing experience"....

Norbert

Norbert, I wanted to send you a PM but you seem to be over the PM limit. Best to email you via your company website link?

I wouldn't draw any conclusions from Hailun's serial numbering right now. My two most recent grand arrivals had serial #5xxx and #10xxx. I have uprights ranging from #40xxx to #70xxx. You can always call their offices to track a specific instrument.

And in response to Robert, many highly respected brands have entrusted Hailun for production of parts and/or instruments. Not to be picky, but I like to clarify that brands don't "have" resale value, they "earn" resale value through continuity. Hailun has all the right signs for improving resale value, and at the same time, I point to American Baldwin pianos as an example where you just cannot predict. Kawai, of course, has done a great job with their brand, but I could make the case that they have greater challenges ahead of them then Hailun.

In any case, we're referring to mass produced instruments, not Bosendorfer or Steinway. Happiness is your best gauge for success once reasonable concerns have been addressed.

+1

.... and Ditto for pianos from Ritmüller, the new Feurich, Brodmann, Perzina, the new Seiler etc.

I agree completely that pianos "earn" resale value and "branding" is a very significant in that equation.

I believe that most people would have more trust in a company that has been successfully making pianos for 85 years in the case of Kawai, and even longer for Yamaha, than those companies which have been in production in China for a relatively short time.

I mean no disrespect to theses new brands like Hailun who are relative new-comers to the piano industry with about 20 years of piano production. Indeed, their instruments may surpass the Japanese pianos in every way.

My point is that the Japanese pianos have "earned" their reputation while the newer brands being produced in China are still "earning" it and name and reputation affect re-sale values.

Regards,

Robert.

I think what you're trying to say is that Yamaha/Kawai are a very poor investment, because you're already paying for their reputation. If you want to make money, you need to anticipate a brand whose reputation will be better five years from now than it is today.

Do I have that right?

My view is that pianos are not investments, they get old and devalue without exception. But if you are going to sell your piano, you will get more money back from a piano that says Yamaha, Kawai or something relatively well known on the fallboard than a newer brand of piano or a lesser well known word on the fallboard.

I won't speak for someone else, but I'll answer this how I do regularly with our customers. The value of the brand is most significantly in the competitive designs/models that expanded the makers reputation rather than those that are designed to hold onto market share. I can point to many negative examples, but I'll stay positive. From Yamaha, for example, certain models like the U1 have absolutely irrationally high resale value, while others like the YUS3 are, at best, average, regardless of the real quality.
If I change the one word, I believe that becomes an accurate statement, though probably not a reasonable goal for the average buyer. I'll say it is part of my business strategy.

Only high-end pianos with strong continuity & branding should be spoken about in the context of investment and then only in the very long term. Speculative investing, like in an investment property or in commodities like gold and coffee, is risky and not for most people. Many people wear gold, enjoy coffee and live in homes. The rest is the insanity of buying and selling.

Even though the trends are to buy and sell more homes in a lifetime, the trend is to buy less cars, and certainly is still to buy 1, maybe 2 pianos for most people's lifetime.

The secret about most promotional models from good brands is that so long as they work, most owners will have only a faint idea of what oppotunities they missed out on.

I've been playing classical, mostly, since I was 5. Now I'm 58, and STILL playing 1-3 hours a day. I've played every piano ever made over these happy years. At 13 my parents kindly purchased for me what is now called the "RX 2" Kawai, a 5'10" grand, which still sounds better than many of the smaller-sized grands, including New York Steinways, at least most of them, that are smaller than, say, 5'10". That's a critical size, because anything smaller (in my view) and you're almost always better off getting a high-end upright. They'll just sound much, much better for the money.

Having said that, things get very tricky over 6' in grands. You're getting into interesting territory, and prices vary hugely. A good used Steinway used to be the obvious choice from 6 to 7 ft, if you could find a good one for the money. Even the best-sounding Kawais and Yamahas just didn't "sound" like a good Steinway. We all know that. We've all grown up with the Steinway "sound" in our ears, and in some rare cases, with the Bosendorfer "sound" (an acquired taste some would say) "in our ears." That's what you hear, usually, in good jazz and classical recordings. It's pretty distinctive, and I for one think it "really IS beautiful", a really good German-built Steinway can just blow you away. But how often to we really get to here them????

Well, listen to this piano....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxGdncwv1N4

It's mine. I tried to capture it's beauty here, although it's not perfectly in tune, and the mics are not the best. Still, it was pretty obvious to me--the ultimate hater of every Chinese piano I've had the misfortune of hearing much less playing--that this piano was, quite honestly and frankly, in a class of its own.

That's all I have to say. The piano that, so to speak, "dare not speak its name." A game-changer.

JG

Everybody knows that the market is changing quicker right now than we can post here.

While there are certainly some threads to some, there are also incredible oportunities for others.

Everybody has to sort this thing out himself, deciding on "how much" one has to spend in today's market for a great sounding piano.

The rest is all postering of what "may" or may "not" be important for the average buyer.

Sound and touch still seems to be number one.

With "affordability" being a close second.

Or was that number one?

Norbert