Yes, well, the Earthworks PM-40 is roughly twice my client’s already recently stretched budget of $1,500. And a pair of QTC-40’s seems to go for around $2,200. Also quite a bit out of his budget—he would prefer to keep the total expenditure below $1,000.

But, I’ll pass this along as well.

[/quote]

Hi Del, I did not see that Budget point, In that case I think that you are barking up the right tree-- Allthough the Rodes mics from Australia will be under budget too__ I think AT has a few option also.

Jeff Clef,

OK here goes, There were lots of version of 414 some ok, some awful.. and some awesome The awesome ones are an early version of 414EB that had the "Brass Ring" capsule (with the little screws around the edge/face and back or the capsule) NOT the "Teflon era" 414EB(which happens to be the second best sounding one...) The 'teflon' one is really a nylon ring not teflon but it is widley refered to as Teflon...

OK You should not wait to wear yours out if you can switch before --Sell yours after you find a suitable set they can be as much as $2000 each though--

And do not be afraid of the age -- people can trash a mic in a year or 50 year old capsule can be good.. kind of like Pianos .. Also like pianos that having a tech check them out can be worthwhile. A tech OR someone with several examples to A-B with .. The Brass Ring capsule is the same capsule that is in the C12, C12a, and Elam 251 those mics can be 20k! The tiny 414EB with Brass ring sound VERY good-- They perform like 85-90% of their expensive big brothers and are easy to move around/mount.. They should keep their value well based on the capsule alone...

Next option -- Get some Telfon EB's and buy replacements capsule from Tim Campbell in denmark-- His capsules are around $400-- He has the ORIG diaprham materials and many think his caosules are really close to the originals..

I do not know if his capsules could be used in the newer mics but he is easy enough to find and you could ask him

Lastly as I wrote before 414BULS or TL2 are not awful mics and you should be able to get a set of TL2's for not much more then selling your new ones.. though I would just get it right and get the Brass ring EB's! or contact Tim



sorry for the COMPLETE answer haha

best-j

[/quote]

Here is a nice demo of the Earthworks PM-40:
PM40

I believe I can rent the dpa stuff; so I will try it. But that particular demo does not do it for me in any way shape or form!

JG

Here's an old thread where I A/B tested a bunch of mics including dpa, earthworks, neumann, and oktava:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-shoo...a-qtc1-u87.html

The oktavas were surprisingly well received considering that they're so low cost compared to the others.

Howard

The Octava's tend to be 'Harsher' and less consistant, If you find a use for them where the harsh character is not coming out they can be as Howard said - Suprisingly good! Lots of Mods out there for that one also..

You can Get a chinese Apex 460 and have it modded usually for less then 900 a pair.. those can come out really nice also..

I think it's ok to post these, as I had done so in a previous thread, and as I recall, the pianist Mr.Pandolfi was fine with it so long as his name was by the recordings.

Here is a wonderfully restored 1906 M&H CC, by Keith at Pianocraft. (Great job Keith) Here is the original link to the thread.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1317813/Searchpage/2/Main/95802/Words/pandolfi/Search/true/Re:%20Mason%20&%20Hamlin%20restore.html#Post1317813

I also put them into mp3's for Keith a few years ago, since the original files were so large. Here is my box.net folder for those pieces, (no password necessary) Mr.Pandolphi plays the piano beautifully.


http://www.box.com/shared/6frkt9tqtl Thomas Pandolfi, Piano


The mics are great. Earthwork QTC40's. Yet another mic possibility! Here is the info on the equip used;

The recording engineer is the very talented Nate Taylor. The following is Nate's answer to someone asking about his recording chain:

"For live recording I'm using a matched pair of Earthworks QTC40 linear omni microphones, a True Systems Precision 8 eight channel mic preamp, and a Lynx Aurora 8 eight channel AD/DA converter, running into a custom build PC system running windows. The software I use is primarily Cubase 4. My studio monitors are Adam A7's. I'm also running a backup audio feed to a Sound Devices 702 two channel recorder. I'm using an AVS 2000pro voltage stabilizer, which has some power filtering ability."

According to Nate, the diaphragms were set about 10" apart. The mics were 7' high and about 10' from the piano.

Nate also wanted everyone to know that the files we have linked are CD quality and he hopes people will burn them onto a CD and listen on a good stereo system.

A little Chopin from the Beyerdynamic 160 ribbons, because i'm returning them to the rental folks:

http://www.box.com/s/yiugxe3z5937cv3rpq6f

Please excuse family chit chat spilling in from elsewhere (which also put my concentration off).

Some thoughts about Ribbons and Pianos :

Yeah M160's are great mics- though they have a really tight hyper cariod pattern and the rejection is such they it would be hard for them to catch the whole piano.. Also-- Like Most ribbons they are not brillant on the top end -- I know if you had some API 550 eq's and found the right positions they could be stellar though they would be challenging to make work in comparison the capacitor mics which most all would have a wider pick-up pattern and be balanced for more high end...

But those 160's do lots of thing well! would not be my first pick on Pianos..

Neumann SM2 is great for Piano..
I am so excited to get my new Grand soon and start experimenting again --

if you had to use ribbons ROYER SF12 Has more high end then most ribbons and natual sound as well as RCA KU3A (though uber expensive and hard to find)

I look forward to more people posting about their experience micing pianos

quick update -- i have returned the behringer c-3s as being too thin of a sound. yeah, i was trying to skimp. i now have a pair of akg perception 420s -- still lower end mics ($250 each) so they're not great but already my tests are showing a marked improvement in tonal quality. examples to follow. here's a review of the mics:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb09/articles/akgperception.htm

here's a quick test of the new mics; previous photo settings:

http://www.box.com/s/r4kljxzs32ldjsp0y1ic

SF 12, next on my list, along with a few other ribbons and, what the heck, probably DPA 4060/61 and Schoeps MK2h and 21.
Yah, there's something thin about the hfreq on the 160s; on the other hand, the c 451b as full-sounding as the are, sound a tad coloured or harmonically distorted in comparison. I could actually live with the 160s, but not with the 451s.

As it stands, I think, I hope, I can do better. More renting on the way!

JG

Sound pretty good to me! (And the Scarlatti, too!)

JG

Entheo, that is a slight step up from the previous and it's not going to break the bank!

Glen

glen i think it's more than a slight step up; i'm not at all displeased with the results so far:

http://www.box.com/s/sboh3z2za3dfrrkxsvc5

That one is more pleasing to my ear, by far. Fine playing, too, by the way. How are they placed when you say parallel?

Glen

That is quite fine. Have you attempted to bring the mics in that configuration slightly farther back from the case so as to get a bit of natural room/soundboard reverb effect, or is your space not conducive for it?

I don't agree.

Just turn off the computer, fridge, ventilation etc while recording. And shield it (close that door and window, close a curtain or panel).

For me the good sound is more important than the bit of unwanted noise.

Good consumer grade WILL allow you to hear the differences. I'm talking about a good headphone particularly.

(why is nothing quoted when you click on "reply to"?? here is the quote I'm responding to)

i haven't yet tried the new mics back from the piano in ORTF config or XY pattern in cardioid mode; on my todo list and i'll post results if they sound promising; thx.

I look forward to hearing your progress.

There are many, many options that sound quite nice. It's a fun journey. I have a friend who uses two pretty expensive shotgun microphones placed approximately 15 feet from the piano, from the side, one facing the entire register across the top and another facing the bass strings a bit towards the tail. It provides a very nice balance across the register and a natural reverb effect and does not lead to any room slap. Fun stuff.

Glen

sat. morning; good time to try some different configs. here's a config that's promising:



akg 420s in cardioid mode, parallel to the LID, per DPA suggestion. will try them up higher and back a bit as well.

here are some sample recordings (please overlook boo-boos; am focused on recording not music). of course no effects:

http://www.box.com/s/5axfetptdnrhq9ryp6u3
http://www.box.com/s/z6kcd9haxgey7bd7a6r5
http://www.box.com/s/cigu3lcpxr2xiav1eb8d

Only the first clip is working.... but it sounds about... well... about as good as I can imagine. That's the sort of raw material you could make a very, very mainstream-quality piano (classical) recording from. (Add now-requisite verb and you're 99 per cent there!) That AGK looks like, sounds like, an exception to the rule... "they all sound the same in the end"!!!

JG

sorry, switching to soundcloud.com; i think they have better codecs; try this (with a bit of 'verb):

http://soundcloud.com/ekriege/schubert-impromptu-142-no2-a

I've been listening with the Grados headphones to all the still available recordings you made, Entheo.

The Scarlatti and Schubert are very, very nice. You found excellent distance and placement with this AKG 420 set-up. I'd lock this one down as the basis on which you judge all of your other experiments.

You play beautifully

Glen

thanks glen! yes i agree i'm going to go with this setup and start focusing on the music again

Thanks for this.
I've been considering buying a good mic soon (to replace an ancient Shure 58 I've got) and I think I'm going to go with the AKG 420.

On the road without good headphones so I can't listen critically until this weekend, but I'll take the rave reviews from other posters as "mission success" for you.

Hurrah.

Glad the DPA book was a help even if we've decided on different placements.

andrew, i tried your placement and there were good results, but i prefer the focus i'm getting with my current placement & cardioid mode -- at least for now!

I also used MXL 990's... superb results at the same time i recorded with the built in microphone of the TASCAM BB1000 CD direct to CD OR SD CARD = WHAT AN EASY MACHINE TO USE, NO COMPUTER, NO SOFTWARE JUST PUSH REC AND GO FOR IT!

Love that Schubert... and the 420s in Card sound excellent!

Here's a mistery mic I used to record that old saw .... by JSB...

http://www.box.com/s/ctsg3mjrl5c6ebmg788v

Less precise, I think, than the AKG 420..

And that old Chopin again, but now on the same mystery pair...

http://www.box.com/s/e0bzcprrr221ox1so44t

By way of edit, I've changed the Bach to a close-miked version of the WTC 2 prelude, which is sort of a test piece, I guess.

There are numerous pops and clicks, which I attribute to the underpowered Macbook's audio recorder.

The Chopin is a more distant miking, a couple of feet off the piano.

Oh, yes, I added verb to the Bach, if it isn't obvious. Amd I had to equalize out some of the boomy bass around 100 hz.

JG