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#1875544 - 04/08/12 10:43 AM Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4217
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

This is a long one but it has to be that way. I feel it is important that people here know about this manufacturer and the position taken in this matter;

Recently a local dealer presented an invoice to me for review. I was informed by him, that a customer who purchased a grand had specifically requested a certain local technician do the warranty tuning. Apparently the client told the dealer that this person has been his long-time technician. For information about this invoice please see this thread from the tech forum at this link;

Warranty Tuning Only

The dealer, in a gesture of goodwill, agreed to let this technician do the warranty tuning, even though this particular technician is not a warranty technician for this store, or brand.

During the same phone call regarding this invoice matter, the dealer asked me to look at and repair a small warranty issue with a grand piano. One of the plate screws was either loose or stripped.

I asked the dealer to contact the manufacturer and get instructions for the recommended repair directly from the factory floor. After all, this was a brand new grand piano, only a few months old, and I wanted to repair this instrument in accordance with the manufacturer wishes so as to be in line with the warrant requirements. The instructions came to me a couple of days following.

I contacted the client with the warranty problem, and made an appointment to view and repair the piano. To complete the warranty repair I had to remove the action/keyboard. At that point I was making some observations about the unusual regulation I found. I also observed that the Teflon had been removed from the knuckles on this piano and thought to myself, “Hmmm I just looked at an invoice where the Teflon has been removed……” For information about the Teflon issue please see this thread from the tech forum;

Teflon Powder

I decided to take some photos of the action and keyboard. After completing the warranty repair and I forwarded the invoice for the service call to the dealer, I told him BTW have a look at these photos. The regulation on this one seems to be a long way from correct.

I got another call from the dealer right away. He was surprised that the photos came from the same piano; after all he was looking at an invoice total of $1200.00 presented to him for that very same grand piano. Further, the grand in question had been fully prepped and tuned in accordance with factory and warranty required specification previous to being sent out the client.

It was then that I realized all of this was connected to the same grand piano; the Teflon comments, the ambiguous and phantom charges on the invoice, along with charges for work not completed properly, and in some cases not completed at all.

Two days later I received another phone call from the dealer. Apparently the warranty repair I had completed was failing. The piano owner and his technician had complained to the dealer about this. Further, both of them had contacted the manufacturer directly to lodge a complaint.
The dealer asked me to re-inspect the piano and the repair I had done. At the same time the dealer asked if he could bring another independent technician in to review the regulation changes I had discovered and to review the repair I had done.
We all attended the home of the client with this piano; the dealer, the owner and his wife, their technician, myself and another technician.

Both the other technician and I went over the regulation steps. Previous to this appointment I had offered a copy of the instructions I had received from the factory floor to the other technician; both of us had a look at the warranty repair and discussed what I had done to complete that repair.
At this point we felt we had enough information to file reports on the regulation to the dealer. It was then that the owner complained the warranty repair was not working. We asked what the complaint was. We discovered, shortly after I had been here to complete the warranty repair, the owner’s technician had come over and deliberately tampered with the repair. This admission was made by the owner in front of everyone present.

Remember that the owner’s technician did not have any authorization to complete any warranty issues with this piano.
The owner’s technician was asked a specific question; “with more than 20 plate screws and bolts in the plate how did you find one that was loose originally?”

In front of everyone present this technician states; “I heard something in the tuning.”

The other technician and I were dumfounded at this statement. We both packed up our tools and made an exit. The following day we both filed reports to the dealer recommending that this technician no longer be permitted to complete any work on this piano. Failing that, recommend that the manufacturer void the warranty in writing to the owner.

Part two follows.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1875545 - 04/08/12 10:44 AM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4217
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
This one went past the technical director of this brand and all the way to the owner of company.

Now here is the email reply the dealer has received. This was forwarded to me a few days ago; I have changed the name of the owner. This email comes from the technical director after discussion with the owner of the company;

Quote:
The owner and I have discussed this case at length now and we have decided the following and confirmed as much to Mr Smith.

1) The dealer will no longer be responsible for the Guarantee for the PE 162 model sold to Mr Smith serial number xxxxxxxxxx The Guarantee will be covered by Brodmann Vienna in future. Please forward the Warranty card to Vienna.

2) Brodmann will be responsible for the costs involved in finalizing the frame screw repair to the piano, directly with the owner’s technician.

3) Mr Smith has confirmed he is 100% happy with his chosen technician looking after his piano in future and he is aware that the piano needs to be maintained correctly for the warranty to be valid.

4) Mr Smith has confirmed he does not want to take up the dealer’s kind offer to re-regulate and tune his piano once more.

5) Brodmann cannot become involved in discussions or disputes between the dealer and Mr Smith’s technician about any previous arrangements to carry out tunings, or service work, or after sales service work. Please sort this out directly.

We appreciate that you will not be comfortable with these decisions, but trust that matters will now be allowed to rest.

Once again, we thank you for your continued support of Brodmann Pianos.

With best regards,

(Signed by the owner and technical director)

Joseph Brodmann Pianos.


So for a hundred dollar tuning and then the subsequent warranty repair we now have;

Atmosphere between dealer and manufacturer= poisoned.

Atmosphere between dealer and new piano owner=poisoned.

Atmosphere between the owner’s technician and this dealer=poisoned.

Atmosphere between myself and owner’s technician=poisoned.

Atmosphere between another attending technician and the owner’s technician=poisoned.

I am, at present, aware of two other Brodman products both with warranty items for repair.

The chances of ANY technician locally here doing warranty work for a Brodman piano in the future?

Slim to no chance at all.

And this is all for a $100.00 warranty repair.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1875605 - 04/08/12 12:27 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
terminaldegree Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2736
Loc: western Wisconsin
Wow. Just wow...
Your summation at the end is particularly sad and must be frustrating.

I suppose if the customer really thinks this outcome is in their best interest, I'd probably leave it alone. In the interest of full disclosure, I have requested reimbursement of a tech I hand-picked for the first service on a prior purchase (instead of the store tech), and a few things popped up that should have been done by dealer prep, but it was nothing like the example you cited.
_________________________
Pianist, teacher, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Casio px-200, Bechstein A190 #192939 @ home
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#1875612 - 04/08/12 12:50 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4217
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada


A little additional information for everyone….
Brodman has stated clearly that they would like this “technician” to complete a plate screw repair.

For comparison here are some other examples of repairs done by the technician that Brodman has chosen to go with.

This is a Bosie. Note the cleanliness of the instrument along with the plate screw repair and the bass string repair.

If anyone has problems with the link below let me know; these photos have been sent to me by colleagues who are aware of this technician and his work....

Technical Expertise
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1875620 - 04/08/12 01:03 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: terminaldegree]
Mike Carr Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 714
Loc: BANNED

This situation, of course we’re only hearing one side of the story, more or less underscores that the warranty relationship is between the owner and the manufacturer, not the dealer. And it is just as important to find a good tuner as it is to find a good piano.

As this melodrama unfolds, I keep asking myself, and apparently Brodmann Pianos came to the same conclusion, where were the grown-ups?

Mike
_________________________
smoke 'em if you got 'em

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#1875647 - 04/08/12 02:17 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10386
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
I'm confused. What does Brodman actually think? That YOU messed up the repair of the plate screw and that YOU messed up the action? I presume you have submitted your side of the story and your evidence.

What does Brodman actually want as a long run outcome?

Do they seem to want this owner to choose an incompetent tech and then to pay this man thousands of dollars to fix his own mistakes? What am I missing here?

Is Brodman incompetent in your view?

P.S. I have never heard of a bad plate screw? What piano could come off of a reputable shop floor with such a slipshod piece of work not caught by a very basic quality control inspection?
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1875653 - 04/08/12 02:23 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1973
Loc: Philadelphia area
Mike I agree with what your saying. But I think the bigger point that Dan is making is that this technician, by doing more harm than good with his repairs, regardless of the reasons, is taking advantage of the unwitting customer.

One bad technician can make all technicians look bad. Same with dealers. Same with every field.

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#1875655 - 04/08/12 02:26 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10386
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Quote:
the owner’s technician had come over and deliberately tampered with the repair. This admission was made by the owner in front of everyone present.


This language "tampered with" is charged stuff. Do you know what was done to the part that YOU had repaired? If it was indeed "tampered with" then there may be legal ramifications here.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1875691 - 04/08/12 03:28 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8572
Loc: Georgia, USA
Dan, I looked at the photos you posted. There is no way in Hades I'd accept that kind of work from any piano technician. The term "butchered" comes to mind.

In fact, if that was my piano and it was under warranty, and that was indeed warranty work, I'd want a brand new piano to replace the ruined one.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1875714 - 04/08/12 04:08 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
j&j Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 445
Loc: Southwest
Holy Smokes, after looking at those pictures of that repair on the Bosie, I could do a much better job and I have never take any course and do not have any experience repairing pianos. I only have electronics repair and fabrication experience from an apprenticeship 25+ years ago. One of the very first things I was taught was how to properly put in a screw, bolts, and rivets.

How is this technician still in business?

This certainly makes me appreciate the wonderful work of my RPT!
_________________________
J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working." Pablo Picasso

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#1875841 - 04/08/12 09:41 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Bob Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3878
Regarding those Bosie bass strings - I'm guessing the tech did not have the correct replacement strings, and simply put something in there on a temporary basis so the piano could be played until the correct replacements arrived. That temporary repair would be preferred over removing the hammer, or blocking the key. At least the key would function and not disrupt the pianist. Simply doing nothing would allow the hammer to wedge between two adjacent bass strings, stressing the hammer flange, and causing key touch issues. Hopefully, the repair was supposed to last just a few days, till new strings arrived.

The piano is filthy. No regularly serviced piano should look like that.

I hesitate to evaluate any technician, however, unless I know what he had to start with, and the working conditions he endured. Sometimes the customer refuses to do the proper repair and just says "make it work".

One common theme in this business is very few pianos get the level of service they need - usually due to cost factors. Many customers don't see the value in proper maintenance.

Not defending, or criticizing, but just trying to be fair.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






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#1875947 - 04/09/12 12:19 AM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
beethoven986 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3351
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos


A little additional information for everyone….
Brodman has stated clearly that they would like this “technician” to complete a plate screw repair.

For comparison here are some other examples of repairs done by the technician that Brodman has chosen to go with.

This is a Bosie. Note the cleanliness of the instrument along with the plate screw repair and the bass string repair.

If anyone has problems with the link below let me know; these photos have been sent to me by colleagues who are aware of this technician and his work....

Technical Expertise


Woah. I'm trying to figure out how someone even managed to do that... confused
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#1875953 - 04/09/12 12:34 AM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: beethoven986]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos


A little additional information for everyone….
Brodman has stated clearly that they would like this “technician” to complete a plate screw repair.

For comparison here are some other examples of repairs done by the technician that Brodman has chosen to go with.

This is a Bosie. Note the cleanliness of the instrument along with the plate screw repair and the bass string repair.

If anyone has problems with the link below let me know; these photos have been sent to me by colleagues who are aware of this technician and his work....

Technical Expertise


Woah. I'm trying to figure out how someone even managed to do that... confused


I figure since it looks like the treble has been "restrung" the person had too much tension on the wire while they fastened the pressure bar back on. So in tightening the screws there must have been a few slips on the way.

Also I notice the web screws are not original and have been replaced.

As for the steel wire in the bass, those notes don't get played much on an imperial. smirk
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
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#1875986 - 04/09/12 02:19 AM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
88Key_PianoPlayer Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 1907
Loc: El Cajon, CA
Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak
As for the steel wire in the bass, those notes don't get played on an imperial. smirk


Hmm... I STILL have run out of keys on the few occasions I've had the opportunity to play an Imperial! shocked
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Associate Member - Piano Technicians Guild
1950 (#144211) Baldwin Hamilton
1956 (#167714) Baldwin Hamilton
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#1876010 - 04/09/12 04:30 AM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Wound up Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 65
nah, this is a case of smoke n mirrors... Silverwood spelled it out, this wayward tech is manipulating and playing the deal..

Slvwood, You should inform the manufacturer..


Edited by Wound up (04/09/12 04:30 AM)

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#1876106 - 04/09/12 09:25 AM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4217
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Thanks for all the comments. A couple of responses;

Piano Dad,

As I have no idea what Brodman is thinking; your questions are best directed to Christian Höferl owner Joseph Brodman Pianos.
After all, the email showing that the decision to dismiss both myself and this local dealer came from his office.

Dave B,

Has it correct, with the addition that he is taking advantage of the client, the dealer, and Brodman while sabotaging my work and then lodging a complaint about that work to further his own gain.

Piano Dad (second posting);

I reset the plate screw with what is called an interference fit. After threads have formed over a short period of time the screw is removed and the holes is lined with adhesive and the screw is installed with a release agent. Then, and only then, can the screw be clamped down completely tight. It would be impossible to clamp the screw down with no threads in the hole.

Previous to the second phase of this repair, by admission from the owner, the owner’s technician came over two days following the initial first step, and tampered with the repair by over tightening the screw and destroying the newly formed threads I had made.

Rickster,

Thanks for the observations. This technician had authorization from the dealer to perform a warranty tuning only. He was not authorized to perform any warranty repairs.

j&j,

This technician is a long time PTG member, in fact and RPT. In the last week I have discovered documentation and complaints that go back more than a decade, and possibly more.

Bob,

That is a fair assessment of the Bosie strings. I will research your observations and get back to you.

I do know that two technicians who are working on the same instruments are documenting everything they find in photo and on paper. These photos and others I have not posted yet were forwarded to me.

Bee986,

I have discontinued trying to figure out anything this person does while calling it work.

Rod,

I suspected the same thing; stringing and then replacement of the pressure bar…..

Wound up,

I reported this all to the dealer along with another technician who attended in the second inspection. The dealer reported all of this to Brodman.

Brodman dismissed all of us from this file and went with the owner’s technician.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1876130 - 04/09/12 10:35 AM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3181
Loc: Maine
Dan, for pianists, how would you recommend we avoid getting into situations like this?
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#1876195 - 04/09/12 12:37 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: PianoStudent88]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21690
Loc: Oakland
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
Dan, for pianists, how would you recommend we avoid getting into situations like this?


That is a good question! One of the high profile technicians around here used to do sub-par work, but a lot of his customers swore by him. There were only rare instances that I would see his work, because he insisted that nobody else touch pianos he had worked on, which is a warning sign. After he killed himself, I would see more of his work, and there were all sorts of problems with it: way off spec, screws left off, etc.

You see some of the warning signs here: An invoice with vague terms in it. Finding lots of things wrong with the piano. Finding fault with other people's work. No discussion with the person paying the bill.

Recommendations do not always work. The bad actors will join organizations or seek out publicity to boost their reputations. The organizations are slow to weed them out, so you cannot rely on protection from an affiliation. You have to be diligent.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#1876204 - 04/09/12 12:58 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
MiddleAgedProdigy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/28/11
Posts: 40
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos

This technician is a long time PTG member, in fact and RPT. In the last week I have discovered documentation and complaints that go back more than a decade, and possibly more.


This too me is the most disappointing aspect of the story.

How are we (the public) supposed to know a competent professional if the PTG doesn't?

Can you share with us how to checkup on complaints on an individual RPTs. But again this defeats the purpose of having a PTG.

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#1876206 - 04/09/12 12:59 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Sparky McBiff Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 1112
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
So this is the same "tech" that submitted this invoice?

Quote:

Prepare piano for tuning and next day concert.

Set timbre (tonal spectrum)
Set sustain and depth of sound
Stabilize key frame
Set ‘after-touch’ in the keys by establishing hammer blow distance and by evening out key dip
Align and fit hammers to strings
Check evenness in regulation of the action, not being concerned about specs due to time limitations.
Voice hammers
Check out piano for unevenness in the bass sound
Full regulation of action
Key dip self-corrects and falls into place
Tune, raising pitch mostly in the mid-range which had settled the most
Voice extensively, as from the regulation the action has gained much in power and efficiency


10.0 hours total


Sub-Total $ 1,071.00
HST 128.52

Total $ 1,199.52

This is a shame because it's certainly changed my view of Brodmann and I really admire their pianos.
The only thing I can think of is that perhaps Brodmann has decided to simply go along with the owner's wishes despite all the obvious evidence that his choice in technicians is obviously mistaken.


Edited by Sparky McBiff (04/09/12 01:04 PM)
_________________________
Hailun 198







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#1876213 - 04/09/12 01:15 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: PianoStudent88]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4217
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
Dan, for pianists, how would you recommend we avoid getting into situations like this?



That is the 64 thousand dollar question…..

If I had to answer I would state do your research. For anyone you hire to work on your piano, home, boat, car, etc.

There is a professional group that gives people, such as yourself, complacency by claiming to be a standard for the industry.

At times this can be an illusory as we can all witness in this particular case.

Sparky,

Yes the Teflon thread, the Warranty Tuning Only thread, and this thread, all the same tech.


Originally Posted By: Sparky McBiff

This is a shame because it's certainly changed my view of Brodmann and I really admire their pianos.
The only thing I can think of is that perhaps Brodmann has decided to simply go along with the owner's wishes despite all the obvious evidence that his choice in technicians is obviously mistaken.


Impossible to help people who don't want my help.

_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1876219 - 04/09/12 01:28 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21690
Loc: Oakland
From Brodmann's perspective, it may be that they know that the tech is incompetent, but do not wish to alienate the piano owner. If they deal directly with the customer, then they take the problem off the hands of everyone else.

There is a thin line that many of us walk in this business. If we criticize someone else's work, there is a chance that we are the ones who will not be believed.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#1876222 - 04/09/12 01:41 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8572
Loc: Georgia, USA
I’ve been told more than once by piano professionals that the piano industry is encapsulated within a small world. Most people in the business know each other or have heard of each other, whether directly or indirectly.

I would also imagine the same is true within the realm of piano technicians… many dealers are technicians, just as many dealers are trained pianist, and good ones on both accounts. I would also imagine that those who do poor/substandard work soon build a reputation for themselves, for better or worse (such as in this thread/case).

I also know from experience that when you recommend someone, quite often, the person to whom you make a recommendation holds you responsible to a certain extent. So, I guess it’s prudent to be very careful who you recommend, for anything.

FWIW, I happen to know my piano tech very well… in fact I know what he’s thinking 24/7, and he knows his limitations. laugh

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1876223 - 04/09/12 01:44 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: BDB]
Sparky McBiff Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 1112
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Originally Posted By: BDB
From Brodmann's perspective, it may be that they know that the tech is incompetent, but do not wish to alienate the piano owner. If they deal directly with the customer, then they take the problem off the hands of everyone else.



Yea I think BDB is correct here.
It would be hard to imagine that Brodmann could be this blind so they're just trying to keep the actual owner happy despite the fact that he appears wanting in the smarts department.
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Hailun 198







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#1876281 - 04/09/12 03:13 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3559
Quote:
>Brodman has stated clearly that they would like this “technician” to complete a plate screw repair.


From what you wrote I get the impression that Brodmann agreed with the customer that he sticks with customers' preferred tech. Because they know this 'tech' is making a mess of it, they have released both you and the dealer from any responsibility and "take it over".

Since they write explicitly
Quote:

3) Mr Smith has confirmed he is 100% happy with his chosen technician looking after his piano in future and he is aware that the piano needs to be maintained correctly for the warranty to be valid.


I suppose this is their nice but vague way of saying that his warranty is not valid anymore?
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#1876305 - 04/09/12 03:55 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Mike Carr]
Mike Carr Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 714
Loc: BANNED
Since this thread has little point other than accusing Brodmann Piano of "abandoning" a dealer, taking some kind of jab at the PTG, and in the process recommending "the manufacturer void the warranty in writing to the owner”, I’m naturally skeptical, especially after hearing only one side of the story and considering the preemptive nature and lack of evidence other than a few pictures for which credibility has not been established.

The only one who heard both sides of the story was Brodmann Piano and after hearing it and seeing all the, er, evidence presented, they felt they had no other recourse than to remove the responsibility for the warranty from the dealer and his tuner, a fairly strong message. They did not want to get in the middle of a he said, she said. Probably good advice for all.



Mike
_________________________
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#1876331 - 04/09/12 04:43 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4217
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Sparky and Wouter79,

Thanks for the additional observations. Wouter yours is a unique perspective that had not come to mind.

Originally Posted By: BDB
From Brodmann's perspective, it may be that they know that the tech is incompetent, but do not wish to alienate the piano owner. If they deal directly with the customer, then they take the problem off the hands of everyone else.

There is a thin line that many of us walk in this business. If we criticize someone else's work, there is a chance that we are the ones who will not be believed.


This is good too.

That is why when I discovered the unusual regulation and was made aware that the invoice I was looking at were the same technician I reported what I had directly to the dealer and the manufacturer.
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www.silverwoodpianos.com
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"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1876357 - 04/09/12 05:43 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2735
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Most manufacturers of ANY product have designated service professionals. In the absence of an on-site service center, the are usually centralized service centers. For example, we don't fix digital pianos, we connect digital service customers to Authorized service centers for the particular brand and product.

There is more than one perspective here, but both on its face and even with some speculation, it strikes me as very unusual for a manufacturer to willingly undermine a dealer even if it is an unintended consequence. Brodmann's solution is a novel one, given the customer's wants. There are no winners here. I think the only remaining issue is the $100 service turned $1200 invoice.

I have known individuals in and out of our industry that do a lot of harm without consequence or recourse. There truly is not any forum for this kind of problem. Not for doctors, not for plumbers, not for piano technicians. I feel the main reason this goes on is because few people are willing to challenge someone's livelihood for anything less than a criminal act. Our litigious society makes targets out of even the most reasonable advocates.
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PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bsendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
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#1876362 - 04/09/12 05:57 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Roger Ransom Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1269
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
Wow, I would LOVE to 'hear' the whole story from Brodman and the technician's perspective. This certainly sounds cut and dried but I have found many times in the past that there are often several sides to most stories.

I expect neither will be posting here to let the resident Lynch mob beat them up though smile

Just sayin'
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Laugh More
Yamaha G7 - Roland FP7

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#1876429 - 04/09/12 08:13 PM Re: Manufacturer Abandons Dealer over Warranty Issue [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8572
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Roger Ransom
Wow, I would LOVE to 'hear' the whole story from Brodman and the technician's perspective. This certainly sounds cut and dried but I have found many times in the past that there are often several sides to most stories.

You know, you are right, Roger... there are two sides to every story. I think sometimes we are too quick to pass judgment (myself included) without all the evidence, from both sides.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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