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First of all the band you're tagging along sounds really good. Very solid. The bass player sounds like my bass player when he plays All Blues. The drummer is awesome. They're really high end players.

And what's fantastic is that you are very much in your element playing blues. Really cool playing. I'm not that good at blues so I appreciate it when it is played well. You have very solid time here btw. You have none of the rhythmic wavering of long ago. That must be something that you've worked on. I'd say you moved up another notch here.

Being on the early part of the jazz journey, obviously it is easy for me to find players better than me. In fact, as a general rule now, I hang out with better players and as long as I handle my comping and form right, it's cool. I'm not so concerned if my solo is too simplistic (I tend to simplify when intimidated).

I think the biggest effect on me has been my time and comping. If the group isn't solid, I'm focused on just surviving the tune and not enjoying the playing.

I'm scared of mixing it up with seriously heavy dudes because it everyone plays like Bill Evans Trio style, I may not be able to keep the form (because everything is so open and changes are often rhythmically displaced). So I'm not ready for that level. It would be exciting though to play at that really high level someday.

What I am not yet able to respond to is the "conversation" between the instruments. My ears have to grow. It's fun to observe that among better players though, like when they quote each other.

Scep that was nice! Slow blues is haaaard.

Actually they're not really high end at all, but I think they play well together. The bassist and drummer are father and son so that may have something to do with how they approach time, who knows?

I'm not sure I'm in my element yet, but have been working on the blues genre for the past little while because I've always felt that I was never doing it right. I'm still not convinced I'm doing it right, but at least I'm more comfortable these days.

This I'm not sure about. I was asking earlier about what it means to play with those at your level, or below, because I'm thinking that for me if I'm unsure about what others are doing or about to do that I'll push the beat, and this results in timing issues. With the trio that I've been playing with the past year I've really struggled with trying to get the drummer and bassist on the same page, but I think it's not been overly successful. One main reason is that the bassist doesn't practice and has issues with memorizing tunes. Another reason is that I'm also trying to mold the drummer into a more modern player, in effect trying to straighten his swing and other things as well as to constantly remind him to listen to others when he plays. BUT in doing all this I'm feeling too much like a teacher when all I really would like to do is play.

But back to the timing issues...they're still there more than I'd like, but when playing with these new guys the stress was off of having me feel that I had to lead the tunes. I'm still also trying to rewire my brain to hear behind the beat as natural rather than in front of the beat.

Thanks KK! I'm glad no one told me it was hard before I played it. I'm also glad no one took offense to the 32nd note stuff. I can't seem to just do swung eighths very well, so will gravitate towards fast streams of notes.

Were you on bass or piano?

So did you rise to the occasion, or did your playing become less satisfactory to you? Also, what made you realize (or imagine) that the players were in fact better? Is it at all possible that they were on the same level as you?

Playing with good players makes you sound good. Playing the music becomes effortless and sometimes it feels like you can do anything and there is no possibility of it going wrong. The music is made collectively so when real communication and trust is possible the music happens so much better.




What does it mean to be on the same level as a drummer or a bass player? Are you talking about experience or ability to hold the form or ability to play interesting lines or being able to transpose hard tunes at sight or the ability to play complex cross rhythms or the ability to sightread anything or the ability to play with taste or groove or creativity etc? Everyone has their own special talents I think, and it does't make much sense to think about people or music in that linear way, to me.

But there are times when I have played with other piano players who were on a completely different level than me. I played piano duets with Cedar Walton once for instance. No way could I match his bluesy swing, not even close.

best time I've ever had playing last night. I joined this group of young gifted guys, all full time players. The bass player is particularly talented. I wasn't always sure where he was going. Many tunes played way outside my confort zone. I'll remember April at a good 300, and blues at a good 40bpm. I felt like I was flying.The drummer was on top of everything I was playing, switching feels, getting all my hits just right. Pure bliss. Whatever complaint I ever had about playing a DP, bad sound blah blah was completely gone last night.
On top of it, those guys were super nice, really into the music, the right attitude, and even insisted that I was playing great.

I have a small movie recording if anyone is interested, send a PM. Not the most exciting part of the evening, but at least you can see us a bit.

Cool story Knotty! It's by stretching oneself that one gets to know thyself.

Yes, please post or share the recording.

Thanks. Yes those ideas keep coming . . . the timing however . . . shudder.

Thanks Scep.
Please do send some money, I need a new amp too - oh and a spare tire to the car and . . .


A problem in this country is that the winter season is very dry. I use humidifiers, but this winter they were to no avail. My tuner told me to wait until Easter was over (it has snowed . . !) so I will get it tuned.
Promise.
Another issue is that my piano is tuned to 442 and BiaB is not tunable (fixed at 440) - I might try with a time-stretch (Logic, ProTools or even Amazing SD) but where's the time . . ?

Thanks. Melodic ideas and variations abound - maybe because I've composed so much music . . .
But my timing . . . it sucks. It seems the brain only wants to focus on one thing at a time whilst learning.
Maybe I'm just terrible with a drummer . . . my playing is so ingrained as a soloist or accompanist . . . I'm going to do some solo recordings of Solar, etc, then I'll see.

I haven't chosen any specific Style, I choose an instrument via the Track buttons, that's how I can have hip-hop drums + jazz double-bass + pedal-steel country guitar + etc. I'll give the Style buttons a try . . BiaB has so many options . . .

Excellent, sounds like a great experience

Well, you tell me. My question was what was it like playing with people above your level and your response was "scary and humbling." So what aspect of better were you referring to?
I agree that everyone has their own special talents, too. But your response made me wonder what would you consider scary and humbling? For me, I'm usually humbled and intimidated by people with big ears, literally and figuratively I'm also intrigued by those that can play flawlessly in the pocket no matter what tempo or style.

So, how did this affect your playing with him? In your opinion did you sound better? Worse? Different in any way? I think I'd probably just freeze up or fail as I tried to show off.
It seems that I'm still in the competitive mode when I play with others in that I'm trying to sound the best and most modern and innovative that I can to somehow prove that I can play. Not a good way to approach playing, I know, but I guess it's something I'll need to work through.

I don't really know. I was concentrating on playing and not concentrating on evaluating how well I was doing. I think it is good not to evaluate whilst playing, or at least have this as an ideal to work towards. I have found that when I feel the pressure to play well that interferes with my ability to actually play well, probably because the urge is to get all the best licks out and not concentrate on actually playing the music. Just like the 'competitive mode' you mention, it is not a good way to approach it.




Any aspect really that I can recognise as being well above my own I guess. Technique and pianistic control is impressive, also time and musicality, but what really amazes me is creativity - the ability that some people have to just take the music off somewhere completely from their own imagination, to completely reinvent the melodic/harmonic/rhythmic space according to their wish. That is the quality that I admire above all others.

Interesting you should say that because I was thinking that very very few people have this ability including many many great players. What I mean is that if you can recognize someone's style of playing, most likely you'll be able to continue to identify their style, and this doesn't lead me to believe they are actually reinventing anything, or recreating anything other than expressing themselves within the parameters that they've grown into.
I think of players like Pat Methany, for example. It's obvious that he's a master at playing the guitar, but for me it appears that his voice has been very consistent for the past 20 or 30 years.
So, to me I don't see this as reinventing at all. I still can admire their facility to produce their given sound, but am usually a bit bored by hearing a number of songs by the same artist unless there is something that I don't quite understand, but want to understand, about the way they play.
I think I need more exposure to great players that haven't become institutionalized in some way, but yet still appeal to me.
Recommendations for some lesser known inventive players that you admire? At one point you mentioned an up and coming Brit, but I've since forgotten his name. I remember liking his sound though.

Some players find something unique and then stick with it and some are constantly going for something new. Others never find anything much new and just play the same old. It takes all types I guess. But if someone has even one unique thing to say then that is pretty impressive to me.



I can hardly think of any musician who has been broader in approach than Metheny. He has covered such a wide range of stuff. Personally I find a lot of the Metheny group stuff borders on smooth jazz a bit too much for me but even if he had only recorded 'bright size life' and nothing else that would be enough to secure a place in my heart. Maybe he has recorded just a bit too much.



Craig Taborn
Jean Michel Pilc
Helge Lien
Django Bates
Gwilym Simcock
Kevin Hayes
Geri Allen
Stephano Bollani
Paul Bley
Uri Caine
Aaron Goldberg
Tigran Hamasyan
Yaron Herman

Hi all,

As a self taught amateur pianist, unable to read music, I´m learning a lot on this forum. Thank you all for sharing! Wish I had discovered this site a long time ago.
I thought I would participate in this thread with a recording done on my brand new Tascam DP-24 multitrack recorder.
(Blue and Green in a slow tempo suits me fine as I get some time to think ;-)
Comments and criticism are welcomed.

Regards, /Rune

Blue, Green and DP-24

Hi Rune
and welcome
Nice playing on Blue in green, well recorded as well

I'll take your word for it. I suppose then that I've only heard selections from his body of work that seem to immediately identify him as Pat Methany. Maybe my sample set is too small, or maybe I'm only focusing on certain aspects of his playing, but I find him to be one of the most identifiable players of his era.

Thanks for the list! I've not heard of most of these players before. Time for some CD buying again...