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Steve, have you tried a single KSM141? Does it sound good, or do you need the stereo pair to get good sound?

RichardM

I think any mono system is going to be lacking. If you're considering a single KSM141 for budgetary reasons, I think you might be better off going with less expensive microphones.
MXL, Studio Projects, Oktava, etc. come to mind.

Steve,
I have various cheap cardiod condensor, a couple of dynamics, pair of Coles 4040's, Lavry Blue D/A & A/D, and a custom tube pre I designed and built myself. Piano is a Walter 190.

Dan

Wow! Lavry -- I'm impressed!!! I have Apogee AD/DA in my studio with the Big Ben clock. I'm very happy with them. But I'm considering getting a Lavry Blue set-up for my piano.

What media are you recording to?

Hey Steve,
The Lavry is the best I've heard, both A/D and D/A. You know that point when electronics get really good, that the music gets silky quiet and smooth?

I record 24/88.2 to a Linksys NSLU2 fileserver - haven't burned anything yet.

I use a Shure VP88 stereo mic and think it is just great. My piano recordings are quite good for home recordings I think. I don't know how it compares with the other Shure mics recommended here -- and would be curious to know what others think.

Virginia (from Virginia)

Here's my set up:

Mics: (rented) 2 AKG 414xlms 5.5 ft off floor looking into the piano, about 1 .5 ft out from the middle of the instrument. Mics are 1 ft apart angled slightly away from each other (kinda like human ears).

Mic Setting: -12 headroom; "Omnidirectional" (Whatever the means)

Preamp: Fast Track Ultra (Sue me! Can't afford anything else!)

Software/Hardware: Little MacBook running Garageband.

Short raw sample of Nocturne (opus 9 no 1) (please excuse the playing!) at 320 kps: http://www.box.com/s/28llz3nl7f757z0tlr2n

Result: Here's a processed version which I will get around to improving:
http://www.box.com/s/pcgjnn7zba2vimx4ma2o

Criticisms more than welcome. And please don't be nice. I want honesty and suggestions re: better Mics, Mic settings, and Mic placement.

For example: where should the Mics be placed with big piano in small room? Under the lid? And what's the deal on "Headroom" and "Polarity" settings????

Cheers,

JG

P.S. Piano: Hailun 218

I believe you would be better served by starting a new thread than by resurrecting one that's more than 7 years old.

I thought about that.... !!!!

JG

Nice job John. I get what you are doing with the mastering; I might lighten the reverb saturation but choose a 'bigger room'. So, less but more. Sounds good though. I would not close mic with only 2 microphones especially if they are omni, so I think you are on the right track there. With cardoid mics, You can get closer to the piano, even inside a little. Just try to keep them as equally high up as you can and apart. I like to point the bass mic at the bass section where you can see understringing, and then the other in the mid treble. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing though. It is just another method that might work out for you with different mics.

I just use 2 Rode nt1000 mic's (like an NTK without the tube) into a focusrite pre, into vegas pro. Some of the pro audio guys I know really like the NTK's, Neumanns, and various crazy hand made and vintage remanufactured mic's. One of the last things we did had a ribbon mic in the mix. Those were big setups though--6-8 mics. Those setups had almost no eq, just blending for the most part.

My vote is on very-small diaphragm electrets.

I use DPA4060 with Jecklin disk, at about 1 to 1.5 m distance

Here is an example

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/sinding.mp3

(My mozart performance of the last ABF recital seems to have disappeared already?)

I'm making progress. I now realize that in a small room the AKG 414 needs to be on the edge and perhaps slightly in the piano. I've eliminated the "boxy" sound that is so obvious in my first attempt. Now I have to get the position exactly right; so that the bass doesn't boom and the treble is not too bright.

Sounds great.. i like it!

JG

Very nice recording. The DPA's are VERY accurate, and with the Jecklin disc, you can make a nice binaural recording as well.

Where did you put the disc?

What preamp did you use?

Did you make the disc or buy it?

Keep up the great work!

You're on the right track, and the AKG C414 can work fine with piano though small diaphragm condensers like Wouter's DPAs are often preferred. It depends what you like.

Have a look at the setup I did here:


and here:


In this case, I used the microphones in a cardioid pattern - something you CAN do with the AKGs with no bass roll off and no volume pad.

You can hear the sound of this piano recorded with these microphones in this configuration in the mix on a recent CD by Laura Mills here: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/lauramills2. Yes, there was some compression and EQ done for the final mix, but not much.
====================
And here's another idea. In recent recording sessions at Blue House Productions in Silver Spring, two large diaphragm condenser mics, very good ones, Neumann U-87s, were used in a configuration SIMILAR but not identical to the one I used. In this case the microphones were used in an OMNI pattern, and were placed in parallel: one was about where my "treble" microphone is in the pictures, the other at the bass bridge break. The grills of the microphones were both facing the long edges of the piano as opposed to the way I did it in my set up where the "bass" microphone was facing down towards the strings.
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Happy Recording Adventures!

I use a ZOOM H2n, inexpensive, very handy and easy to use. I’m very pleased with the results for my own amateur recordings.

Great, super clear pics. The mics are about a foot off the soundboard. And I can see that the bass mike is pointed down directly at the strings. Is that treb mic pointed down at the treb strings or sideways? Looks like it's pointed towards the long end (left side when seated at the piano). Can't quite tell. I guess you can play with that orientation.

Also Cardioid pattern is (I'm such a newbie) governed by a switch on the back of the mike, I'm guessing... well, that's the way it is on the akgs.

Having trouble posting... hope this isn't a double... here's what I'm getting now, with the 414s IN the piano, coincident layout, 1/2 between lid and board, pointing to treb and bass on an angle, not pointed right at the strings. Cardioid pattern.

Here's a brief sound sample, some verb added, that's it:

http://www.box.com/s/pcgjnn7zba2vimx4ma2o

The best mic will depend on how, exactly you're using it. Generally speaking, I prefer large diaphragm condensers or ribbon mics. My first pair of studio mics were the M-Audio Novas. They are $99, and more than adequate for most applications. That said, a few summers ago, I built a pair of ribbon microphones, which I love. I don't think I'd recommend ribbon mics for a beginner, though. Your best bang for your buck is probably the Rode NT1-A. Get a pair of those and a USB audio interface (I like the Focusrite Saffire 6) to record directly into your computer. If you're a Mac person, you can use the Ardour DAW (which is free, but good), otherwise, I'd recommend Sony Sound Forge (Audio Studio).

You really don't need to go out and spend several grand (or even one grand) for an audio setup. There is a very real diminishing rate of return with audio equipment.

Thanks!

Let me add that I think omni directional mics are the best to use: more accurate frequency response. What you need for a piano is a dead flat frequency response from 20 to 20kHz IMHO

I had a thread some time ago concerning where to place the mic:

https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1723144/Re:%20new%20gear!%20mic%20placement%20fe.html#Post1723144

Currently I use the "diagonal" position, about 1.5 meter high. My room is just a (small) living room, about 6 by 4 meters and 2.5 meter high, in an appartment/flat.

an even earlier thread on my equipment:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1718523/1.html


The jecklin disk I made myself.

i'm in the process of ugrading my recording equip from a zoom q3 (which i'll still use for the video, and merge via windows movie maker). here's what i got for under $300:

2 behringer C-3 mics
presonus audiobox 22VSL with Studio One & VSL software (am using a laptop for my DAW)
2 boom stands & cables

after experimentation i'm placing one mic in the bend of the piano, 1 foot away, in cardioid mode, aimed at middle C (per paul cantrell's advice). the other mic is in omni mode and is under the lid, over the bass strings. the piano is on half-stick to compress the sound and saturate the mics.

here's a doodle demo; no effects, pan hard L-R. i still want to capture more of the sonorous lower register of my C7, but it's a start. you'll need a decent set of speakers or headset to get the idea:

http://www.box.com/s/l79gfhkn50laao37nb4p

comments are welcome!