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#1877007 - 04/10/12 06:47 PM Yamaha: GC1 & GC2 vs. C1 & C2-what's the difference?
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Yamaha makes 5'3" grands labeled GC1 and C1, and 5'8" grands labeled GC2 and C2.

Larry Fine points out how the GC series is different from the least expensive G series. (E.g., the G series is made in Indonesia and the GC series is made in Japan and the GC series has a bunch of features that might be considered upgrades from the G series.)

However, in comparing GC1 or 2 to C1 or 2, Fine only says that they're now very similar. And yet, the "C" series grands cost a whopping 30% more than the same-sized "GC" series.

I had no choice; I needed a Silent Piano, Yammy doesn't make a Silent GC2, so I had to pay the big bucks (for a Silent C2). Still, I'm curious . . .

Does ANYBODY know what the specific differences are between a GC1 or GC2 and the more expensive C1 and C2? Thanks in advance for a reply.

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#1877015 - 04/10/12 07:09 PM Re: Yamaha: GC1 & GC2 vs. C1 & C2-what's the difference? [Re: jivemutha]
ChrisVenables Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: Hampshire, England
Deja vu?

As usual, can't speak for the North American spec, but here's what we have in Merrie and Verrie Olde England:

There is no G series as such any more. (There used to be G1, G2 etc, made in Japan)

However, there is the GB1K made in Indonesia. Downsides -Fixed music desk, no rear duplexers.

Also, there are the GC1 and GC2 made in Japan.

Main differences between GC1/2 and C1/2 are:

C series have cabinet upgrades such as bevelled edge top lid, 'spade' end legs, locking fallboard, underfelted hammers, Ivorite naturals and wood comp. sharps as well as the much talked about (between you and me) vertically laminated main bridge.

Differences you hear on the C series are:

More dynamic range, especially in the mid and treble, richer tone, more voicing opportunities for the tech due to the more adaptable hammers.

You won't like the next part:

GC1 and GC2 are available in Silent version in Europe. (SG system too).

However, you made the right choice going with the new C2M! (worth the extra cash)

Best wishes.

Chris
_________________________
Tech. & Partner: Venables Pianos
Yamaha Piano UK main dealer and Grand Piano Centre
Stocking new Yamaha, Brodmann and Venables & Son

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#1877059 - 04/10/12 08:47 PM Re: Yamaha: GC1 & GC2 vs. C1 & C2-what's the difference? [Re: ChrisVenables]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Thank you, Chris. So, besides the little stuff (e.g., edge differences on the cabinet) and the arguably not-as-tiny differences that still don't affect tone (viz., the Ivorite keys) both the hammers and the treble bridge are different, so there is a meaningful difference is sound. OK--that makes me feel better.

This is embarrassing to say, but I'd completely forgotten that at one point I did momentarily play a GC2 some months back and as you say, there was a significant difference to my ear despite what that dealer was saying (who knew far less about it than you do).

No surprise that silent versions of the GC series exist over there but not here. Americans generally have plenty of space for both a digital and an acoustic piano if both happen to be needed (e.g., in an apartment building). If I had space for both, I would have gotten a regular C2 and a cheap P95 to practice on.

Your answer was so complete, I'm guessing that might be the end of this thread--you've covered all the bases. Thanks again!

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#1877062 - 04/10/12 08:55 PM Re: Yamaha: GC1 & GC2 vs. C1 & C2-what's the difference? [Re: jivemutha]
SolidG Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/14/12
Posts: 30
Loc: New Jersey
Agree with everything Chris said. If it matters, the C pianos also come with an additional lid prop (3 vs. 2). Specs aside, I preferred the look and sound of the C2 over the GC2. In fact, our C2 arrives on Friday!

Hate to tell you, but according to Yamaha, there is a silent series GC2 ( model GC2SG). But I think you made the right move with the C2. I should... I made the same move ( not silent, though).

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#1877162 - 04/10/12 11:31 PM Re: Yamaha: GC1 & GC2 vs. C1 & C2-what's the difference? [Re: jivemutha]
Bumble Bee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 46
The yamaha grand pianos brochure that I got from the dealer in canada lists GC1SG and GC2SG.

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#1877220 - 04/11/12 01:21 AM Re: Yamaha: GC1 & GC2 vs. C1 & C2-what's the difference? [Re: Bumble Bee]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Bumble Bee
The yamaha grand pianos brochure that I got from the dealer in canada lists GC1SG and GC2SG.


Interesting! The Yamaha.com website section devoted to Canada doesn't even mention ANY silent pianos--typical, given how weak the Yammy website is in so very many ways. (Sections are out of date, some sections contain misinformation, trying to compare different pianos is near impossible, etc. It's my unfavorite website.) If the dealer showed you the brochure I think it's fair to say that for some reason a silent GC1 or 2 is available in Canada and the website is, as usual, off base.

As for the U.S. section, there IS a section on silent grands, and as I stated before, it does not include a Silent GC1 or Silent GC2. Also, the new update of Larry Fine's Piano Buyer geared to the U.S. market does not list a GC1SG or GC2SG (i.e., a Silent GC1 or Silent GC2) but does list all the silent C series pianos.

I would have thought that silent pianos were as rare in Canada as in the U.S., which--so my thinking went--would have limited what was available just as it has in the U.S. I thought the average Canadian home was about as big as in the U.S. Am I wrong?

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#1877240 - 04/11/12 01:49 AM Re: Yamaha: GC1 & GC2 vs. C1 & C2-what's the difference? [Re: jivemutha]
Bumble Bee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 46
the catalog that I got from the dealer at the back it says
GP catalog (n.america 2010)
316011B printed in Japan
so I guess it is possible that the catalog that I have is out-dated.

Usually there are more choices in US than in canada. The size of the home depends upon geographical location, similar between U.S. and Canada.

when I was at the yamaha dealer, the consultant played a GC1, then a C2. He exclaimed that the C2 produces a more 3 dimensional sound and asked me if I can hear the difference.

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#1877500 - 04/11/12 12:47 PM Re: Yamaha: GC1 & GC2 vs. C1 & C2-what's the difference? [Re: Bumble Bee]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Bumble Bee
the catalog that I got from the dealer at the back it says
GP catalog (n.america 2010)
316011B printed in Japan
so I guess it is possible that the catalog that I have is out-dated.

Usually there are more choices in US than in canada. The size of the home depends upon geographical location, similar between U.S. and Canada.

when I was at the yamaha dealer, the consultant played a GC1, then a C2. He exclaimed that the C2 produces a more 3 dimensional sound and asked me if I can hear the difference.


Presumably you heard a difference between the much larger C2 than the much smaller GC1, but did you get to hear a GC1 versus a C1 or a GC2 versus an C2? Your comment about more choices south of the border makes sense because we (the U.S.) is a bigger market, of course. However, as best I can tell it still sounds like a silent GC was or is an option in Canada and so far I have seen no evidence of that down here. Hm.

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#1877704 - 04/11/12 06:35 PM Re: Yamaha: GC1 & GC2 vs. C1 & C2-what's the difference? [Re: jivemutha]
Bumble Bee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 46
Yes, I did, GC1 sounds very nice, but C2 sounds even better, richer to my ear.

The store that I went, do not stock on GC2, and C1. The reason that the consultant explained to me was: if a buy is interested in a 5'3", they think there is little difference in sound quality between gc1 and c1, and buyer is probably more budget consious, so the buyer will mostly likely choose gc1 over c1, I think it is partially from their sales experience. However if the buy is willing to invest more into a bigger piano 5'8", it is likely they will just go "all the way" and get C2, or C3, instead of GC2. That was certainly my mentality, but unfortunately C2 turns out to be too expensive for me.

I don't remember if it is mentioned before, the consultant told me the sound board used in C2 is better than GC2.

In short, sorry, I didn't get to hear GC2 side by side with a C2. But C2 is a beautiful beautiful piano.

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#1877831 - 04/11/12 10:05 PM Re: Yamaha: GC1 & GC2 vs. C1 & C2-what's the difference? [Re: Bumble Bee]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Bumble Bee
Yes, I did, GC1 sounds very nice, but C2 sounds even better, richer to my ear.


Perhaps we may not be communicating. Of course a C2 will sound better than any kind of C1, whether it's a GC1 or a C1 or at the bottom, a GB1--it has the huge advantage of another 5" (or 8") in length. I think that's probably a given.

The issue is how much better does a C1 sound than a GC1, or a C2 vs. a GC2. Your comment below makes it clear that you didn't have the chance to check out those differences because of what your dealer does and does not carry. His or her logic as you've described it makes a kind of sense to me--at least regarding the C2, especially after considering Chris Venable's comments about the significant differences between the two series.

You may have seen my post above in which I remembered that I actually did (at least for a moment) get to play a GC2 once (and move back and forth between the GC2 and the C2). Despite a dealer's comments (and Larry Fine's) to the contrary, I found the C2 to sound far more polished and noticeably better than the GC2--at least to my ear. This too fits with Chris's comments in his post above.

Originally Posted By: Bumble Bee
The store that I went, do not stock on GC2, and C1. The reason that the consultant explained to me was: if a buy is interested in a 5'3", they think there is little difference in sound quality between gc1 and c1, and buyer is probably more budget consious, so the buyer will mostly likely choose gc1 over c1, I think it is partially from their sales experience. However if the buy is willing to invest more into a bigger piano 5'8", it is likely they will just go "all the way" and get C2, or C3, instead of GC2. That was certainly my mentality, but unfortunately C2 turns out to be too expensive for me.


Are you in the market for a piano? If so, what do you think you'll get--do you know? If you love C2s and don't need a "silent" version (near impossible to find used in North America), might you look for a used C2? Yamahas last a long time. I never would have gotten a new one except for the need for the silent feature paired with the inability to find a used one--I really hunted!

Originally Posted By: Bumble Bee
. . . the consultant told me the sound board used in C2 is better than GC2.


Well, Chris really knows Yamahas and he didn't mention that difference, so I wonder whether that's really so. I'd like to believe it though, having paid the extra money for the C2. (Again, I had no choice because of the need for the "silent" version, which is not available south of the border in GC2 form.)

Originally Posted By: Bumble Bee
. In short, sorry, I didn't get to hear GC2 side by side with a C2.


Understandably!

Originally Posted By: Bumble Bee
. But C2 is a beautiful beautiful piano.


I've had mine new silent C2 for 6 weeks now. The acoustic part of a silent C3 sounds even noticeably better, but it would have been too big for the space, too loud for the space, and too much for my budget. I'm very happy with my C2. The irony is my teacher has me working on a bunch of exercises that I just can't subject my neighbors below and to each side to. (I'm in an apartment house converted to condos.) Therefore, I'm literally spending more time with the headphones than the real piano. (BTW, the digital component of all the silent Yamaha grands is the same, so what I'm hearing through the headphones is exactly what I would have heard if I had spent twice as much on a silent C7.) I wish it weren't so, as I MUCH prefer the real piano!

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#1877919 - 04/12/12 12:17 AM Re: Yamaha: GC1 & GC2 vs. C1 & C2-what's the difference? [Re: jivemutha]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13969
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Piano Disc offers a very efficient silent system that can be installed on any grand, any make.

A while back we did one on an Estonia grand, the cost is about $ Can 6000. Depending on system used, cost varies..

http://www.pianodisc.com/products/details.aspx?id=69261

http://www.pianodisc.com/products/details.aspx?id=11846

It's becoming very popular and we expect to see these systems in many more pianos in future.

best wishes,

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (04/12/12 12:23 AM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1877935 - 04/12/12 12:57 AM Re: Yamaha: GC1 & GC2 vs. C1 & C2-what's the difference? [Re: jivemutha]
Bumble Bee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 46
I got a new kawai rx2 for 2 weeks now.

I wouldn't have minded a less than 10 year old yamaha c2 or kawai rx2, but none were available. And honestly looking at the price of used piano locally, it is not really very cheap. A 1994 C2 is asking for 15000 CAN. Long story short, we don't want to wait around, and we are willing to shed a reasonable amount of money for a new piano.

I think you are wondering if the price increase going from a silent GC2 (which you cannot buy) to a silent C2 is justified by the amount of improvement, is that right?

I had a different problem: we were seriously considering yamaha c2 and kawai rx2. yamaha is 4000 CAN more expensive.

If I had the money, and rx2 is not in the play, i would pick C2 over GC2.

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#1877950 - 04/12/12 01:38 AM Re: Yamaha: GC1 & GC2 vs. C1 & C2-what's the difference? [Re: Bumble Bee]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Bumble Bee
I got a new kawai rx2 for 2 weeks now.

I wouldn't have minded a less than 10 year old yamaha c2 or kawai rx2, but none were available. And honestly looking at the price of used piano locally, it is not really very cheap. A 1994 C2 is asking for 15000 CAN. Long story short, we don't want to wait around, and we are willing to shed a reasonable amount of money for a new piano.

I think you are wondering if the price increase going from a silent GC2 (which you cannot buy) to a silent C2 is justified by the amount of improvement, is that right?

I had a different problem: we were seriously considering yamaha c2 and kawai rx2. yamaha is 4000 CAN more expensive.

If I had the money, and rx2 is not in the play, i would pick C2 over GC2.


Actually, for me it's become a moot point. As you know a silent GC2 isn't an option here. More importantly, I've already bought the silent C2.

I haven't played an RX2, but it's a little longer than a C2, has those now-famous composite parts, and unless you're a jazz player, might even be considered a better way to go--especially given that you saved quite a bit over a C2. It's odd--your preference for the sound of the C2 yields no particular clues to me about your playing, but if instead you had said that you prefered the RX2 it would have almost totally ruled you out as a jazz player. Some classical players prefer the RX while others prefer the C, but pretty much all jazz players seem to go with Yamaha. Odd how that is . . .

In any case, I hope you enjoy your Kawai!

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#1877955 - 04/12/12 01:50 AM Re: Yamaha: GC1 & GC2 vs. C1 & C2-what's the difference? [Re: Norbert]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Piano Disc offers a very efficient silent system that can be installed on any grand, any make.

A while back we did one on an Estonia grand, the cost is about $ Can 6000. Depending on system used, cost varies..


I was aware of after-market conversions, though I had no idea they were that expensive!!!! (Adding the silent feature to the Yamaha grand increased the price by "only" half that amount.)

I've never heard anything bad about the PianoDisc system, but so many players claim the Yamaha silent system is "the best" (presumably due to the quality of the sound through headphones) while a number of people have expressed concerns about effects of adding something like that after-market.

In the Yamaha grands, there is fancy technology that corrects for changes to regulation induced by all the silent system hardware--not so on Yammy uprights. As I understand it, this would probably also not be so when adding an after-market system to a grand. That said, I admit that in playing a silent Yamaha upright I did not find the feel to be significantly off.

In any case, the 3rd time I heard from a tech that "it's better to get it from the factory if you can" I put that together with the fact that I couldn't afford the Schimmel, and that seemingly left me only one major choice--Yamaha.

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