You know, you are right, Roger... there are two sides to every story. I think sometimes we are too quick to pass judgment (myself included) without all the evidence, from both sides.

Rick

I am, at present, aware of two other Brodman products both with warranty items for repair. (Seemingly, not a good mark of brand quality: P*D)

The chances of ANY technician locally here doing warranty work for a Brodman piano in the future?

Slim to no chance at all. Distaste for the corporation's attitude and tactics.

Regarding those Bosie bass strings - I'm guessing the tech did not have the correct replacement strings, and simply put something in there on a temporary basis so the piano could be played until the correct replacements arrived. That temporary repair would be preferred over removing the hammer, or blocking the key. At least the key would function and not disrupt the pianist. Simply doing nothing would allow the hammer to wedge between two adjacent bass strings, stressing the hammer flange, and causing key touch issues. Hopefully, the repair was supposed to last just a few days, till new strings arrived.

Not a peep from old Norbert. Seems a bit odd.

Not a peep from old Norbert. Seems a bit odd.

Dan--It seems as though the manufacture, faced with a difficult situation, has decided to do whatever it takes to keep the customer happy---even if that means additional (and likely unjustified) expense to them. I just hope you're able to get paid for the work you've done.


Piano*Dad--Some technicians, as a matter of routine, check the tightness of the plate bolts. Unfortunately, there are some who get a bit uhh, 'over-enthusiastic' when tightening these bolts. Without having personally checked the piano out before and after, it's difficult to say if the stripped out bolt is something that happened during manufacturing process, or after...

What I am pointing out is that Dan has said things that someone like me (a completely neutral and disinterested party) easily sees as disparaging remarks about the quality of Brodmann products and about their management.

The implication of Dan's posting seems to be that Brodmann either doesn't believe him, or that Brodmann thinks that he and the unnamed (but probably Vancouver-located) dealer are somehow to blame for these repair problems.

If you want to see inflammatory, just reread the thread title.

I agree with both of your observations.

What I am pointing out is that Dan has said things that someone like me (a completely neutral and disinterested party) easily sees as disparaging remarks about the quality of Brodmann products and about their management.

When a customer makes comments of a similar sort about any particular maker, many people here at PW get all over them like the proverbial cheap suit.

Dan says he is aware of even more warranty issues on Brodmann pianos. One does not usually point out stuff like that (without evidence) unless one is venting, and that sort of venting usually gets a very chilly response from the ownership here, since manufacturers have a tendency to issue warnings about liability for .... ah, misstatement.

The implication of Dan's posting seems to be that Brodmann either doesn't believe him, or that Brodmann thinks that he and the unnamed (but probably Vancouver-located) dealer are somehow to blame for these repair problems.

Your explanation about Brodmann's thinking is much more likely, and much less inflammatory.

If you want to see inflammatory, just reread the thread title.

I cannot help but wonder, if the entire point of posting these "three separate threads on this same issue" is just an excuse to poke, jab demean etc., at a manufacture, the PTG and RPT's in general. Perhaps it is time to just close it down....

The other real kicker? This one is amazing. This technician is a long time member of the Piano Technicians Guild, in fact an RPT.
Numerous other members of this local chapter have know about this kind of work going on, all of them have photos and documentation going back more than a decade and possibly more than two decades.

What have they done about it?

Nothing.

To me, the local PTG Chapter now has the ball in THEIR court. They can prove their worth by assembling a jury of approved examiners to look over the evidence and make a recommendation. Anything less would give credence to those who put little to no value on the RPT designation in the area of this chapter's influence.

I would strongly suggest contacting the PTG home office directly in Canada as they would have to be the ones to deal with it. Not the chapter. We can do nothing about it here in the USA that I know of.

I had the impression that the whole point of this thread was mainly the issue that Brodmann has acted questionably by meekly siding with the owner who insists on using an obviously inept technician.

The fact that he tech in question just happens to be an RPT is mentioned but I don't see it as being the focal point of the issue here.

We all know that there are bad people in every profession so I don't think everyone should go off on a tangent about the RPT thing since the MAIN POINT seems to be that Brodmann's actions have thrown a wrench into the workings of manufacturer/dealer relations in a relatively small market.

(It appears they are as adept at dealer relations as they are at making a useful website. Which is badly.)

At least that's the way I'm seeing it.

Well, with some sense of dread, I'll jump in

The PTG website states: "A Registered Piano Technician (RPT) has passed a series of rigorous examinations on the maintenance, repair, and tuning of pianos. Only RPTs are authorized by The Piano Technicians Guild to display the logo containing the words “Registered Piano Technician”."

Additionally, I believe there is a "code of ethics" that RPT Techs are "suppposed" to subscribe to. In my 40 years of being in the piano business as a tuner and retailer, I have only known of ONE person who ever was admonished and removed from membership of the PTG, and that was in the SF Chapter. In that particular case, there had been egregious behavior for YEARS before such a roar went up that the organization had to do something or lose all credibility in our market - which I think is the point here.

I happen to have been in on this particular problem from the beginning, acting as a soundboard to the retailer - since we both carry the Brodmann line. In my NOT so humble opinion, the main mistake by the retailer was in letting the customer's technician, who the retailer had known previously and had known was "problematic," work on the instrument. Sometimes, IMHO, customers have to be protected against themselves. I know, I know, this often gets you a reputation for being difficult but better that than lawsuits.

However, once the deed was done, IMHO the manufacturer should have firmly backed the dealer and the dealers trusted technicians in not only remedying the problem but also in ongoing service of the piano, for a very simple and logical reason; warranty of fitness.

I am not sure about the area where this piano was sold, but in California, there is a "warranty of fitness" which basically, as I understand it means that a product must be fit to perform for the purposes it was sold, i.e. playing the piano. Obviously, the consumer will not sue the manufacturer but rather the dealer (who is local) if an issue arises. Even though the manufacturer "officially let the dealer off the hook" for the service on this piano, the dealer still has exposure. IMHO, the manufacturer should stand by the dealer not only for this very important reason, but also the fact that the dealer is its customer. I can understand a manufacturer cancelling a sub-par dealer who does not service their pianos properly and therefore cancelling the relationship, but that is NOT the case here. In fact, I know personally that the manufacturer is soliciting the dealer to buy more product in a large quantity. To me, if I were the dealer, I wouldn't even consider another order.

Most manufacturers know which of their dealers to trust. For example, with one manufacturer that we represented for 28 years, we placed only two warranty claims with them. It wasn't because we never had service issues with their product, but I just don't believe in "nickel and diming" manufacturers over small items. This works to my benefit because when I do make a call or claim, the manufacturers, for the most part, respond positively and immediately because they know I wouldn't bother them with a minor problem. The dealer in question has a very good reputation for service, and hires only quality technicians and the manufacturer should be standing clearly beside him, which they aren't.

One way the manufacturer COULD have solved the issue was to send a "factory technician" to the customer's home to examine the piano and the repairs and alterations. This should give the customer a renewed sense of confidence in the brand, and it would benefit the dealer if the customer's technician is the culprit (which I fully believe he is). This would also cement good feelings between the dealer and the manufacturer, and as an outside party it would be easier for the manufacturer to criticize the work of a local technician without repercussion. Unfortunately, this didn't transpire.

To me, the local PTG Chapter now has the ball in THEIR court. They can prove their worth by assembling a jury of approved examiners to look over the evidence and make a recommendation. Anything less would give credence to those who put little to no value on the RPT designation in the area of this chapter's influence.

Blaming the local chapter is not justified for what has happened here.

Brodman goes with the owner and the owner’s technician, dismisses dealer and the two technicians one being myself.

You are correct that PTG headquarters is the venue to be contacted. However, the chapter can engage the national office. There is nothing to stop them from making their Regional Vice President and the home office aware of the situation.

An action against a PTG member has to be brought by somebody -- and they could just as well be that someone.

Local chapter members have not seen fit to write a formal letter of complaint outlining their concerns about this technicians work, signed by all concerned members who have photos and documentation and sent the Regional Vice President.

I had the Regional Vice here for three hours last Thursday going over documents, photos and the invoice.

I am trying to do the right thing instead of nothing.

Local chapter members have not seen fit to write a formal letter of complaint outlining their concerns about this technicians work, signed by all concerned members who have photos and documentation and sent the Regional Vice President.