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#1879093 - 04/13/12 05:52 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: Tango]
daviel Offline
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Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 933
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
Ed, what caused the flap was treating the chord explanation like we were over in the classical pianists' forum. We aren't; we're in the NON-classical forum. Mr Tango needed a generally-accepted-in-the- blues-genre explanation so that he is not hooted off the bandstand when he calls out "F-flat!" at his next blues jam.

A quote from Ed's post above: "As long as these descriptors do not violate or contradict basic, tonal theory, then any one is not any more correct than the next. " to which the modifier is or should be: "unless you are trying to communicate with blues players."

I'm still waiting for the answer to Jazz+'s request for a chart with an F-flat chord in it.

Not trying to start anything, just trying to add some common sense. smile
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#1879148 - 04/13/12 07:00 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: LoPresti]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4750
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: LoPresti

Once we venture into blanket rules like this one, the learner is still not out of the complexity woods. To be complete, here we need to address intervals that are usually perfect or prime (4th, 5th, 11th, etc.) So, in addition to your "seventh flat by default", we need to add that all intervals that COULD BE perfect, are perfect by default, unless otherwise altered.

OOPS!!! That was really dumb of me. Yes, everything but the 7th is major or PERFECT, by default. 4 and 5 is perfect, so 11 is too.
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
[4] I am not certain why everyone is quoting this out of context. As plain as day, here is what I wrote:

Major ninth chords, that is major chords with an added ninth, are constructed upon major triads. In the same way, they are built with intervals above, and referencing, their root.

Yes, but your "plain as day" explanation started out with "major ninth chords". For the same reason I just acknowledged, above, that I left out something critical, so did you. You are clearly DEFINING the concept of adding extra notes to a major chord. But I am telling you for a fact that the moment I hear "major nine chord", I immediately think of: Xmaj9. It is visceral. So I have to read past your label, then get to the definition. I am very careful in my teaching to state, clearly, that either a major or minor chord may have any number of additional notes or "color tones" added. I would always say "major chords with an added ninth". I am not nitpicking. In my world any inconsistency in how I explain things to students will cause a train-wreck. If I start off with any phrase that is non-standard, then FOLLOW it with another phrase that makes my first usage clear, I see glazed-over eyes. smile

Now, having said that, I was not the person who nitpicked your choice of words. That was "The Exalted One". Did he really misunderstand you? Or was he just posting to score "gotcha-points"?

Most likely you will not get an answer. I have never gotten one from him.
Quote:

I generally dislike repeating (or re-writing) myself, but I would like to remind everyone on the thread that the (F flat) 9th was brought up as the subject of this thread - I did not invent it, I was simply hoping to explain it.

And you ran into the chasm between "classical musicians" and "non-classical musicians". I live in both worlds, so what you were writing about was crystal clear to me.
Quote:

I would also say, to all those learned individuals who are calling for the diagram or spelling of this chord in some published chart, that if you need a chart to look up chords of this type, you are way out of your depth.

I think here "chart" means "jazz chart".

http://www.opus28.co.uk/decipheringchords.pdf


Edited by Gary D. (04/13/12 07:25 PM)
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#1879151 - 04/13/12 07:05 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: daviel]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4750
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: daviel
I'm still waiting for the answer to Jazz+'s request for a chart with an F-flat chord in it.

Not trying to start anything, just trying to add some common sense. smile

I think the chances of finding Fb9 in a pop chart is zero, and finding one in any jazz chart is somewhere between extremely unlikely and zero also. laugh
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#1879168 - 04/13/12 07:47 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: Gary D.]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: London UK
Quote:
Now, having said that, I was not the person who nitpicked your choice of words. That was "The Exalted One". Did he really misunderstand you? Or was he just posting to score "gotcha-points"?

Most likely you will not get an answer. I have never gotten one from him.


Of course you can have an answer!

I don't think I misunderstood what was meant. I just pointed out that it was in error.

There is a chord, written as "Cmaj9" and spoken of as "C major 9" which consists of the major triad, major 7th and major 9th.

Using "C major 9" to refer to a quite different chord, with a minor 7th, is therefore incorrect. Quite straightforward. No points to be scored. But let's get these things right - students may be listening!

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#1879261 - 04/13/12 11:22 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: Gary D.]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Legal Beagle
I would attempt to diffuse the volatility a bit by pointing out that when Jazz+ said this...

Originally Posted By: Jazz+
Show me a published chart that says Fb9

I believe he was using the common vernacular of jazz musicians (and many others) who refer to printed sheet music, either lead sheets or full scores, as "charts."


Originally Posted By: Gary D.
I think here "chart" means "jazz chart".

Well, I am usually critical of those who simply ASSume they know what others intend, so I need to have a big bite of “humble pie” here! In retrospect, of course that is the type of “chart” to which our gentlemen are referring, and I should have taken that into consideration. My mistake.

---------------------
So, if I were to locate a chart (NOT a chord spelling chart) that contained a Cb9, would that be close enough (key-wise, only a single flat away from Fb) to satisfy your challenge?

Ed
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#1879275 - 04/13/12 11:52 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: LoPresti]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4750
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: LoPresti

So, if I were to locate a chart (NOT a chord spelling chart) that contained a Cb9, would that be close enough (key-wise, only a single flat away from Fb) to satisfy your challenge?

Ed

I don't "have a dog in this fight". smile

I don't think you will find something like Cb7 in blues, but I think you will in jazz charts. I would be more surprised to find Fb7 (or any extension) or something like A#7.

But in Bach, although there are no chords in it, the C# Major Prelude of the WTC, book I, wanders towards the sound of C7 going to Fm. I mean it is very clear that for a moment he is heading to Fm and setting it up with a dominant 7. The notation for chords would be B#7 to E#m if you don't switch enharmonically, mentally, to flats.

There is the notation of music, and then there is the sound of it. Sometimes the two clash horribly. Even if someone notates Fb9, in ANY kind of music, I am sure I am thinking, in my mind, E9. smile
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#1879294 - 04/14/12 12:23 AM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: Gary D.]
LoPresti Offline
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Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
I don't think you will find something like Cb7 in blues, but I think you will in jazz charts. I would be more surprised to find Fb7 (or any extension) or something like A#7.


Well, if you are referring to Muddy Watters-style blues, I'll bet you are right. Much of that genre depended on use of the open strings on the guitar, laying well in E, A, D, and G.

I am hoping that daviel and Jazz+ bite on my Cb9 offer. What do you say, guys - close enough, or do I have to start exploring Mingus' more esoteric works?
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#1879328 - 04/14/12 01:41 AM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: LoPresti]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4750
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
I don't think you will find something like Cb7 in blues, but I think you will in jazz charts. I would be more surprised to find Fb7 (or any extension) or something like A#7.


Well, if you are referring to Muddy Watters-style blues, I'll bet you are right. Much of that genre depended on use of the open strings on the guitar, laying well in E, A, D, and G.

I am hoping that daviel and Jazz+ bite on my Cb9 offer. What do you say, guys - close enough, or do I have to start exploring Mingus' more esoteric works?

Before anyone else answers, blues covers a lot of territory. smile

I already found a Cb9 chord in a standard. It took me perhaps two minutes to find it. smile
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#1879332 - 04/14/12 02:01 AM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: Tango]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1438
Loc: Australia
Here is a quote from member Tango, from Sept 2010

"Hello all.I am learning the song "The Girl From Ipanema".It was written by Antonio Carlos Jobim.It is in a Fake book.I want to play it using chords in the right hand and the melody in the right hand.There is a Cb9 cord in the L.H."
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#1879342 - 04/14/12 02:23 AM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: Tango]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4750
Loc: South Florida
Bingo! Ipanema is most often played in F. The bridge moves to Gb, so the Cb9 chord is the IV chord. Then it moves to parallel minor, so F#m9, but then goes to D7 or D9, etc.

Not blues, but a very famous standard. wink
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#1879480 - 04/14/12 11:03 AM Fb9 chord [Re: Gary D.]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Before anyone else answers, blues covers a lot of territory . . . . . I already found a Cb9 chord in a standard. It took me perhaps two minutes to find it.

"Blues" does cover a very broad spectrum, and that is why I tried to narrow the field to the 12-bar, sing-the-same-4 measure phrase-three-times style.

I wasn't going to devote any time to researching the Cb(7)question - examples are plentiful, depending upon the sophistication of the composer (or arranger), and his "chart".

In fairness, however, I am having some difficulty with the Fb(9). I had in mind Good Bye, Pork Pie Hat, but can not locate anything resembling an authoritative copy of the composer's sketch or score. Copies that do appear have been transposed as far as I can tell.

I was really hoping one of those other bold challengers would step up here, maybe with a nice, substantial wager, against finding the Cb(9) in a blues or jazz chart. Actually, NOW I AM the one still waiting . . .



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#1879484 - 04/14/12 11:05 AM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: R0B]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: R0B
Here is a quote from member Tango, from Sept 2010

"Hello all.I am learning the song "The Girl From Ipanema".It was written by Antonio Carlos Jobim.It is in a Fake book.I want to play it using chords in the right hand and the melody in the right hand.There is a Cb9 cord in the L.H."

Very effecient! That will leave his left hand free to play the maracas or guiro!
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#1879508 - 04/14/12 11:58 AM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: LoPresti]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11572
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
... bold challengers .....

I didn't read any challenges or see challengers. I saw a basic point being made that different styles of music / music playing will veer toward different conventions which are the most suitable. Music is practical, except when in academic circles. It seems very reasonable that written "classical" music might use Fb(anything) for sound reason, but if people are playing by ear and improvising, shouting out "Fb" would be less efficient.

I dunno. I've always found forums to be a fantastic place for people to put their heads together, share knowledge, and sometimes come up with new ideas that emerge out of differences. I've also found the most frustrating part of forums the fact that such discussions can turn into competitions of proving others wrong on some secondary point meant to illustrate a main idea, and then the idea gets lost. Unless I'm wrong, that is what risks happening here.

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#1879519 - 04/14/12 12:34 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: LoPresti]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
So, if I were to locate a chart (NOT a chord spelling chart) that contained a Cb9, would that be close enough (key-wise, only a single flat away from Fb) to satisfy your challenge?


I think you'll find Cb chords to be quite a common animal. You might have more trouble locating an Fb, but I'm reasonably confident you COULD find one.

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#1879528 - 04/14/12 12:48 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: keystring]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Hi KeyString,

Here are those challengers you missed:

Originally Posted By: Jazz+
Show me a published chart that says Fb9
It's nonsense, imo.


Originally Posted By: daviel
Non-classical conventions are valuable to a discussion in the non-classical forum. . . . . Oh, and I eagerly await the published chart requested by Jazz+. wink


Originally Posted By: Gary D.
I think the chances of finding Fb9 in a pop chart is zero, and finding one in any jazz chart is somewhere between extremely unlikely and zero also.


I attempt to negotiate, so I do not need to dig too deeply - I hate research!
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
So, if I were to locate a chart (NOT a chord spelling chart) that contained a Cb9, would that be close enough (key-wise, only a single flat away from Fb) to satisfy your challenge?


Gary rises to the occasion, and in a couple of minutes locates an example, proving how trivial it is:
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
I already found a Cb9 chord in a standard. It took me perhaps two minutes to find it. smile


A few minutes later, Rob comes up with a reference from this very Forum.
Originally Posted By: R0B
Here is a quote from member Tango, from Sept 2010 (::)
"Hello all.I am learning the song "The Girl From Ipanema".It was written by Antonio Carlos Jobim.It is in a Fake book.I want to play it using chords in the right hand and the melody in the right hand.There is a Cb9 cord in the L.H."


And, alas, another opportunity to win a couple of wagers has fallen by the wayside - I the sad victim of too many people knowing too much information.

Let us hope that Tango eventually does learn to construct those troublesome ninth chords. Maybe if he were to stick with his own thread a little longer . . . . ?

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#1879533 - 04/14/12 12:57 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: LoPresti]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4750
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: LoPresti

Let us hope that Tango eventually does learn to construct those troublesome ninth chords. Maybe if he were to stick with his own thread a little longer . . . . ?

If Tango doesn't want to Tango with the rest of us, that is his (or her) loss. As I said before, someone sets things in motion. If that person disappears and we have fun with the topic, not loss for US!
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#1879538 - 04/14/12 01:15 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: LoPresti]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

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Ed, I follow the progression in the discussion of these two chords: Fb9 and Cb9 that you have listed. I was following that level of it all along. But my thinking was that it's not about these two chords: that the real point was that there are two worlds requiring two views, and that the "challenges" were originally simply a means of illustrating this. Of course I may be wrong, and it may actually have been a contest. It's not the first time that I've been wrong.

Meanwhile you have a valid point about hit and run questions. Where is the asker?

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#1879579 - 04/14/12 02:09 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: keystring]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: keystring
Meanwhile you have a valid point about hit and run questions. Where is the asker?


He got a adequate answer early in the thread. Perhaps he isn't interested in whether it SHOULD be called Fb9.

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#1879584 - 04/14/12 02:27 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: LoPresti]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4750
Loc: South Florida
I just want to point out that I meant to make no challenges!
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
I think the chances of finding Fb9 in a pop chart is zero, and finding one in any jazz chart is somewhere between extremely unlikely and zero also.

I was simply sharing my experience, based on my memory. And since my memory is very faulty, with such things as an Fb chord I go on experience only, then I check. I was going on the assumption that in general more practical people try to stay away from chords that would not be normal triads in a standard key.

Normally the key of Cb major is avoided in favor of B major. Since Fb is the IV of Cb, it is going to be rare in something that does not modulate or have a lot of chromatic movement. As a I chord, same thing. Fb is a rather exotic key, even for a short modulation. And as a V chord, it would be V or V7 of the nasty key of Bbb - NINE flats. smile
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#1879602 - 04/14/12 02:58 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: Tango]
daviel Offline
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Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 933
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
I have enjoyed this thread - it has legs. It is a good illustration that what you call a chord depends on what "school" you're in at the time.
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David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas

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#1879619 - 04/14/12 03:27 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: Gary D.]
Exalted Wombat Offline
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Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
I was going on the assumption that in general more practical people try to stay away from chords that would not be normal triads in a standard key.

Normally the key of Cb major is avoided in favor of B major. Since Fb is the IV of Cb, it is going to be rare in something that does not modulate or have a lot of chromatic movement. As a I chord, same thing. Fb is a rather exotic key, even for a short modulation. And as a V chord, it would be V or V7 of the nasty key of Bbb - NINE flats. smile


And, of course, just as the chord on the b6 - Ab - is a common chord in the key of C major, Fb is the equivalent in Ab major - a perfectly "standard" key. The only question is whether to "misspell" it in the interests of convenience.

I agree, Fb would be an unusual key to modulate TO. But using the chord doesn't imply a modulation!

Cb is indeed more common as a chord than as a key. But I've known it happen!

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#1879728 - 04/14/12 08:12 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: daviel]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4750
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: daviel
I have enjoyed this thread - it has legs. It is a good illustration that what you call a chord depends on what "school" you're in at the time.

I have enjoyed it too. As I have said elsewhere, I have one foot one one world "traditional/classical" but the other in arranging, and there are some suprising overlaps from one world to the other. smile
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#1879733 - 04/14/12 08:27 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: Exalted Wombat]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4750
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Exalted Wombat

And, of course, just as the chord on the b6 - Ab - is a common chord in the key of C major, Fb is the equivalent in Ab major - a perfectly "standard" key. The only question is whether to "misspell" it in the interests of convenience.

This point was precisely what I was thinking of. Moving into the "classical" area for a moment, a German 6th chord in your key of Ab is a deliberately misspelled E7 chord, spelled Fb Ab Cb ***D*** and in Bach would move to Eb Ab C Eb, Ab/Eb, a I 6/4 chord, then it would resolve. We would have to find it in the WTC though, because Ab major sounded horrendous in mean tone or anything close to it.
Quote:

I agree, Fb would be an unusual key to modulate TO. But using the chord doesn't imply a modulation!

Just exactly what a modulation is gets tricky, because it's not only about where we choose to go but also how long we plan to stay there. For instance, no matter what key we are in (key signature), a V7 to I movement in any other key COULD signal a temporay key change that will last for 1 second or several minutes.

Going back to the Ipanema example, if someone decided to play it in Bb instead of F, not at all an unusal key, then the bridge will start Cbmaj7 to Fb9 then Bm9 to G7 or so. You could switch to Bmaj7 to E9, and I would, but the other shows a movement to b2 (new tone center) rather than #1.

As for pieces written in Cb major, starting and ending in that key, I can't think of a single example, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I can't imagine a "symphony in Cb major", and I can't think of any pop tune in that key. But I have seen standards in Gb and Db. smile
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#1879757 - 04/14/12 09:25 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: daviel]
keystring Online   content
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Originally Posted By: daviel
I have enjoyed this thread - it has legs. It is a good illustration that what you call a chord depends on what "school" you're in at the time.

I wanted to bring that part out, especially for those of us who are students. Originally I intended to lurk. This was almost a subtheme that popped up for a short time and then lowered its head again but it seemed extremely important. My own schooling went more along the "classical" line and I'm far from done with it but at some point I started encountering this "other" world. What was being said here made a lot of sense to me. Namely that people playing by ear and manipulating music in a particular way are going to need some different conventions here and there. Meanwhile sound is sound: "A rose by any other name" and all that.

My thought is that if a student is only used to one OR the other, then this could get confusing in the sense of trying to decide which one is right. So the fact that there is more than one way of seeing things, each suitable in a particular context, is not a small thing.

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#1879884 - 04/15/12 05:26 AM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: keystring]
Exalted Wombat Offline
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Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: keystring
My thought is that if a student is only used to one OR the other, then this could get confusing in the sense of trying to decide which one is right. So the fact that there is more than one way of seeing things, each suitable in a particular context, is not a small thing.


A classicist might want the chord under discussion to be named as some flavour of Augmented 6th (a description that always bemused me until I discovered the more functional description as the b5 substitution for a secondary dominant.) But surely the point is that if I (wearing my commercial music hat) want to refer to a "German 6th" I must get it right, not confused with an Italian or French 6th. Likewise, if (wearing my classical robes) I should stray into chord symbol territory, I must not re-define "Cmaj9" as having other than the accepted meaning.

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#1879971 - 04/15/12 11:31 AM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: Tango]
daviel Offline
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Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 933
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
Exactly! I think from a musicianship standpoint, a student (that would be me) is well served by being aware of these differences, and when and where to use them. thumb
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"She loves to limbo, that much is clear. She's got the right dynamic for the New Frontier"
http://roadhouseallstars.com/

David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas

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#1880117 - 04/15/12 06:01 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: Exalted Wombat]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4750
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Exalted Wombat

A classicist might want the chord under discussion to be named as some flavour of Augmented 6th (a description that always bemused me until I discovered the more functional description as the b5 substitution for a secondary dominant.) But surely the point is that if I (wearing my commercial music hat) want to refer to a "German 6th" I must get it right, not confused with an Italian or French 6th. Likewise, if (wearing my classical robes) I should stray into chord symbol territory, I must not re-define "Cmaj9" as having other than the accepted meaning.

0:38

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6K_IuBsRM4

Ab7 to G. Key of C minor. Italian 6th to V to i.

Technically an "Italian 6th" because there is no 5th in the Ab7 chord.

But the Ab7 chord, going to G, doesn't have to be going to V. It can just as easily go to I, so then it would have to be some kind of "bII7" chord, and it's outside of traditional RNs. And it doesn't matter if it is altered by flatting the 5, Ab7-5, Ab B Db F#, to G (I).

This kind of analysis drives me NUTS. So I absolutely hate the terms "German 6th", "French 6th", "Italian 6th". I feel like I have to explain them to students to protect them from theory geeks who care more about what things are called than where they go!

What I prefer: EXPANDING fake dominant. You have something that sounds like a dominant 7 chord, or one with an altered tone, then it just opens up. It's typically the outside that does that, and the spelling is just the most convenient. Db7, traditionally, is most likely to go to Gb. Take the same chord, open it up so that the root goes DOWN and the 7 goes UP and you have something that works in any kind of music. Db F Ab Cb to C ** ** C. It doesn't matter if it is C F A C, C F Ab C, C E G C or something more exotic.

Then respell to Db F Ab B because it is clearer notation. smile


Edited by Gary D. (04/15/12 06:03 PM)
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#1880124 - 04/15/12 06:17 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: Tango]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: London UK
Better still, simply analyse the tensions within the chord, and where they might resolve to. All harmony is counterpoint. Or the othrt way around. Or something!

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#1880133 - 04/15/12 06:27 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: Tango]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4750
Loc: South Florida
That's how I see it too. For me it's all about:

1) Where do we start.
2) Where are we going, and how do we get there?
3) Where are we now, and where do we want to go next?

To me any chord has no meaning by itself. It's all about the movement, context. smile
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#1880220 - 04/15/12 09:09 PM Re: Fb9 chord [Re: Tango]
daviel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 933
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
Tension in chords - chord substitutions - resolution - voice leading w/ chords.
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