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Hello all.I looked all over the internet to see what notes make up the chord Fb9.I could not find anything.What notes make up an Fb9 chord?Could you also explain how this chord is formed and arrived at?Thanks.

Hi Tango
This is a beautiful chord that can be used in many contexts where colour is needed, the b9 providing the colour.

You can use F# A C Eb.
So if you have a Bb major progression C min 7, F7, Bb maj 7
you can use Fb9 instead of the normal F A C Eb.

Maybe it is what CA suggests, F7b9. This would commonly be used as a dominant in Bb major or Bb minor.

Voiced F, A, C, Eb, Gb in can also be seen as a slah chord Adim7/F.

Hmnmm. Could this by some chance be Fb in the key of Cb? Maybe the Fb9 is the enharmonic equivalent of being an E9. Dunno, just thinking out loud.

ya think? I'd just play an E9 - IF Fb9 means F-flat 9th

Tango,

Do you see the confusion? In order to answer correctly, we need to know if you are referring to "F major with a flatted ninth" {F (b9)}, or "F-flat major with an added ninth" {Fb (9)}. These are two completely different chords, and would be used in drastically different settings.

What is the context in which you find this? What key are we in? What other chords immediately surround this one in question. More info, please . . .

And, on the subject of consulting "the internet", there are ABSOLUTELY NO F#s in either of these chords. (However, both do contain a Gb.)
Ed

Hello all.I apologize for not giving the key and progression of this blues song.This Fb9 chord is taken from the song,"Texas Flood" by Larry Davis and Joseph W. Scott .The song is in the key of Ab.The Fb9 is in the introductory measure #4.The blues progression is Ab,Db,Ab,Fb9,Eb9.

Fb 9: Fb Ab Cb Ebb Gb

Though the progression you write is correct: Ab, Db, Ab, Fb 9, Eb 9
I would write Ab, Db, Ab, E9, Eb9 as, imo, it's much easier to comprehend the chromatic chord movement.

Here we are again with the issue of "familiar useage" contradicting chord spelling and theory. I would rather "think" E 9th any day of the week, than Fb 9th, but that is because I am far more familiar with 3 or 4 sharps than I am with 8 or 9 flats.

However, once one writes it down, in my opinion, we are taking it out of the realm of just familiar thinking, and placing it in a theoretical perspective. Maybe even more especially when we are coaching someone who is learning this stuff. So, even forgetting for a moment that Tango asked specifically about Fb, the Fb chord progresses just fine chromatically to Eb. We even hear it as a descending motion from a flatted sixth, rather than from a raised fifth.

Ed

So he's just sliding into Eb chord from an E chord. No blues player in the history of western civilization ever played an F-flat chord! That's an E-chord. That's a very common blues convention. Blues is an "ear" genre. Go to a local blues jam and call out an "F-flat add the 9th" when the change comes, and watch the ensuing trainwreck.

I agree that blues (and jazz) is much more about hearing and feeling than about analyzing or notating. I also agree that chromatically ascending, or descending, ninth chords are found everywhere in popular music and jazz. Even further, I concede that if I were attempting to remember this harmonic structure for playing, I would retain it as E9 – but that is my lazy “common useage”.

However, Mr. Tango did not ask about an E9, so somewhere he is encountering the notation Fb 9

And quite logically, once we are in the Ab major tonality, it is a real theoretical stretch to get to E. While we might use it as an augmented 5th, we do not hear it that way in this context. Our ears dictate the progression as an Andalusian sixth (major chord built on the flatted sixth of the key), sliding as you say, to the dominant ninth.

Quite the opposite, surely? E9 may be a more familiar shape, and I wouldn't condemn anyone who chose to notate it that way. But in this piece, it's the b6 chord, not the #5. If you can't see this, transpose the tune to C major and see if you'd even dream of writing it as G#9 rather than Ab9! The harmonic movement is much clearer when a b6 LOOKS like a b6.

All I was trying to say was that in blues it is uncommon/odd to characterize chord changes as one would in a Jazz Studies theory class. Of course if he is in the key of Ab you could call his chord an F-flat chord. No real blues players do that. Esoteric theory discussions are a waste of time in blues circles, I was trying to get across. They're OK on piano forums, though. I'm trying to keep Mr. Tango from looking like a nerd at his next blues jam, and to encourage Mr. Tango to listen to the tunes, not read sheet music in the blues genre. I know you read tangos, but find some blues piano players you like on you-tube - and real players, not white-bread lessons, and copy their licks. Billy Preston, Ray Charles, James Carroll Booker, more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_blues

OK, so blues players are sometimes short on musical theory, and take the easy way out when naming chords. But this person has shown an interest, and should be given full information.

True, that. I am just not accustomed to academic blues, at least not down here in Texas

Here's SRV playing the tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWLw7nozO_U

Be aware that SRV tuned his guitar down a half step. That may be how you got in to this Ab fricas!

Tango,

Hopefully your eyes have not glazed over too badly from your little theoretical "side discussion". There is still the second part of your question, and this is very similar to the thread you started dealing with differences between Cm7 and Cm9 and Ab7 and Ab 9.

Chords, including triads AND extended chords, can be constructed by adding intervals ABOVE THE ROOT of that chord.
[1] The chord takes its letter name from the root. So, any variety of chord named C ( C7, Cm9, C+7, Cø7, C 13 (#11)) will all be “built” with intervals above the root note C.

[2] The type of chord to be built will be designated by the lower-case letters, numbers, and symbols that follow the chord name. I would be here all night covering which triad forms the base of which type of chord, but the two you seem most interested in at the present are minor and major ninth chords, so I’ll try to make sense of those for now.

[3] Minor ninth chords, that is minor chords with an added ninth, are built upon minor triads. They are constructed with intervals above, and referencing, their root. The intervals are:
a minor third (part of the minor triad)
a perfect fifth (part of the minor triad)
a minor seventh (assumed)
a major ninth
Applying this to your former question about Cm9 (C minor ninth), one spells the chord like this:
C + Eb + G + Bb + D

[4] Major ninth chords, that is major chords with an added ninth, are constructed upon major triads. In the same way, they are built with intervals above, and referencing, their root. The intervals are:
a major third (part of the major triad)
a perfect fifth (part of the major triad)
a minor seventh (assumed)
a major ninth
Applying this to your former question about C9 (C ninth), one spells the chord like this:
C + E + G + Bb + D
Applying the same intervals to your current question about Fb 9 (F flat (ninth)), one spells it like this:
Fb + Ab + Cb + Ebb + Gb
And, at the risk of muddying the waters even further, for those who wish to think of this sound as E9 (E ninth), that would be spelled with the exact same intervals above the root E:
E + G# + B + D + F#

To state the obvious, keys, scales, and intervals are at the very heart of understanding the spelling and proper construction of chords. If you let us know where you are with understanding those rudiments, we may be able to help better.

Enjoy the blues!
Ed

Well, the YouTube video is in Gb (or F# if you prefer).

The thing is that keyboards (Reese Wynans - B3 and piano) had to play the half step down. So Reese is playing in F#/Gb and SRV's fingers are playing in G while the guitar sounds the half step lower. Good way to learn playing in odd keys - which Reese was very good at. SRV used thick guitar strings and apparently liked the extra slack. I don't really mean it is not important to learn how to write/spell chords. It just sounds odd applied to blues changes.

I took one look at this post and thought: Oh NO!

My students all wrestle with the problems that jump out like "Jason" from Friday the 13th with this notation.

Any root can form a 9 chord. Fb9 is simply Fb Ab Cb Ebb Gb. End of story.

For a "flat 9" chord, the notation is different, so if we want an F7 with a flat 9 added, as several people have shown, it's easy:

F7b9 F7(b9) F7-9, and even F-9, which I use when I am lazy and want to save space.

The difference between Fb9 (ambiguous) and F-9 is that with the dash used for a m9 (b9), suddenly we know that the chord itself is F, never Fb.

Normally I use F7-9, again because I type it into music and want something that is fast and clean, but to students I would recommend F7b9 as the quickest and most clear notation.

This is only to get the Fb9, truly an Fb7 chord with a 9 added, and a F7b9 or F7-9, in two notational forms that make the two very, very clear and different from each other.

This is just to get two different chords (sounds) out of the way and move to the other problem brought up.

Next point: how to spell unusual chords.

People try to apply the same notational standards to different styles of music.

Fb9 in "classical music"? It can happen. It does happen.

But something like this is a lot more common:

Fb7-5 (Fb7b5) moving to Eb, and that turns out to be a "French 6th", a pain in the butt name that doesn't really get at what it is. It is spelled in this manner, because of where it is going to:

Fb Ab Bb ***D*** TO
Eb G Bb Eb

The top note, the Ebb, is respelled to "D" because of where it is going next. And suddenly it is pretty clear. Two notes go down 1/2 step, the top goes up 1/2 step, and the Bb is a "common tone", not moving. You can write it in four voices. It could show up in Bach SATB.

To use that same logic in blues is insane. The chords are not MOVING the same way. If you are in Ab and want to slip to an Eb9 chord, just a simple dominant, no one I know is going to to write Fb9 moving to Eb9. Suddenly the same logic above, good voicing leading, all goes up in smoke.

I have to agree with Daviel. Applying traditional theory to parallel 7 chords is just geeky, and everyone I know uses simple, clear spellings for simple, obvious progressions.

I would write, in A:

A, D, A, F9, E9.

But in Ab:

Ab, Db, Ab, ***E9***, Eb9.

Bach is Bach, and blues is blues. Applying the rules for one to the music of the other is just weird...