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#1878319 - 04/12/12 04:24 PM Is this G2 gray market? Should I not be buying it?
Sesshy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 15
Loc: Denver, CO, US
http://denver.craigslist.org/msg/2905857569.html

I'm on the verge of purchasing this thing for $5700, but just today it occurred to me to check the serial (E2610212), and it seems like it's a gray market piano.

The seller (he's a technician selling it on behalf of the owners) says it's a '78 that was bought new here in Denver, but I have to wonder if I should trust a gray market piano that has been in one of the driest areas of the US for over 30 years. I've seen it, played it, and it looks nice, sounds nice, action feels nice, it appears to be in nearly immaculate condition with nothing but a bit of bleaching on the lid and a little wear on the hammers. But I'm no expert, and I'm having second thoughts about plunking down this much money. What do you guys think?


Edited by Sesshy (04/12/12 04:26 PM)

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#1878347 - 04/12/12 04:48 PM Re: Is this G2 gray market? Should I not be buying it? [Re: Sesshy]
master88er Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 859
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Don't walk, RUN to the telephone, call a piano technician and get them to check out the piano before you purchase it. ANY used piano should be thoroughly examined by a qualified technician before you invest thousands. Think of how well you'll sleep knowing you bought a really good piano!
_________________________
Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

FORMER US Rep.for C.Bechstein

SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
www.rkassman.com
russell@rkassman.com
510.558.0765

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#1878360 - 04/12/12 05:03 PM Re: Is this G2 gray market? Should I not be buying it? [Re: Sesshy]
Crow Wing Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/22/09
Posts: 34
The ad says, "It was bought new here in Denver...". A check of the serial number on the Yamaha website says, "This serial number E2610212 was not made for the North American market." I would wonder, What else is not factual?

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#1878400 - 04/12/12 06:44 PM Re: Is this G2 gray market? Should I not be buying it? [Re: Sesshy]
Bob Snyder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast
If you google the phone number, it seems that the seller IS a piano technician...
_________________________
Bob Snyder
Senior District Manager
Steinway & Sons

rsnyder@steinway.com
www.steinway.com

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#1878407 - 04/12/12 06:53 PM Re: Is this G2 gray market? Should I not be buying it? [Re: Sesshy]
Sesshy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 15
Loc: Denver, CO, US
Yes, he is a tech, so that's the thing: should I hire a non-partisan tech? He seems like a really nice guy, and like I said, the piano doesn't seem to have any problems at all. I called him about its gray market status, and he basically said "whether or not that's the case, the piano's been in this climate for more than 30 years and there are no cracks anywhere in the wood or the soundboard," which is true.

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#1878410 - 04/12/12 06:58 PM Re: Is this G2 gray market? Should I not be buying it? [Re: Bob Snyder]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Bob Snyder
If you google the phone number, it seems that the seller IS a piano technician...


I don't think I get the point. As Russ says, the potential buyer absolutely needs to have a tech check it out, and this may even be more important than usual because the number does not check as a N. American market Yammy, it's old, Denver is dry, and Japan is not. As the potential buyer obviously can't use the seller as that hired technician due to the seller's vested interest (and potential misinformation already uncovered re "originally bought in Denver"), I don't understand what difference it makes that the seller is a technician. What's your thought here? Thanks in advance for a reply.

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#1878412 - 04/12/12 07:00 PM Re: Is this G2 gray market? Should I not be buying it? [Re: Sesshy]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Sesshy
.. . should I hire a non-partisan tech?


YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES !

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#1878442 - 04/12/12 08:11 PM Re: Is this G2 gray market? Should I not be buying it? [Re: Sesshy]
Bob Snyder Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast
Jive, we are on the same page. By the way, do we know each other?

Sesshy - the phrase "non-partisan tech" is somewhat like the phrase "non-partisan salesman". Both are partisan; salespeople just are not reluctant to admit it!

Regardless, the technician that is selling the piano is probably not the one you want evaluating the piano that he is selling....! That is in no way suggesting that he's less than honest or qualified; what I am suggesting is that he is less than objective, as his "one of the best sounding parlor grands in CO" statement in the ad would very strongly support.

All that said, if the piano checks out, it seems like a lot of piano for the money. Good luck to you -
_________________________
Bob Snyder
Senior District Manager
Steinway & Sons

rsnyder@steinway.com
www.steinway.com

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#1878469 - 04/12/12 08:55 PM Re: Is this G2 gray market? Should I not be buying it? [Re: Sesshy]
Sesshy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 15
Loc: Denver, CO, US
Yeah, I think you're exactly right, Bob: gray market or not, it is a lot of piano for my money so long as it checks out okay, so I'm just gonna play it safe and hire a registered guild tech. I already found one who does pre-purchase appraisals as well as historical tunings, and I was having a really hard time finding somebody who even knows what a Young temperament is, so, two birds with one stone. Really appreciate your guys' input, thanks. smile

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#1878588 - 04/13/12 12:21 AM Re: Is this G2 gray market? Should I not be buying it? [Re: Sesshy]
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
Duh! If the piano is of 1978 and has 2 pedals it is gray market. A non gray market 1978 G2 has 3 pedals. The "E" scale was of both gray and non gray market status. Yamaha USA database is not always accurate as for gray market status. The database reflects Yamaha pianos sold via Yamaha dealers in the USA not the fact of being seasoned for the North American market. A 33 year old Yamaha G2 is no "spring chicken" especially if it had been recently imported into the states having spent most of it's previous life in Japan. A 33 year old Yamaha would probably need restringing now or shortly along with hammer,shanks,flanges and wipps. You don't even want to pay $5700 for a piano and than have to put in another 5-6K+ in this minimal refurbishment. To much dinero Sesshy!
_________________________
www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE

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#1878616 - 04/13/12 01:18 AM Re: Is this G2 gray market? Should I not be buying it? [Re: Bob Snyder]
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 528
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Bob Snyder
Jive, we are on the same page. By the way, do we know each other?


Well' 'looks like we're both on the west coast, but your name doesn't ring a bell. Unfortunately my real name (Steve Austin or Stephen Austin) rings bells with everyone, but it doesn't necessarily mean you'd know me. It more likely means you watch wrestling ("Stone Cold Steve Austin") or saw the Six Million Dollar Man, or studied Texas history. As you might guess, I'm none of those guys.

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#1878625 - 04/13/12 01:37 AM Re: Is this G2 gray market? Should I not be buying it? [Re: Sesshy]
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
Hmmm....theres a Bob Snyder that represents Steinway & Sons. That is a coincidense that this fellow has the same name but if it doesn't ring a bell...Oh Well! grin
_________________________
www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE

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#1879179 - 04/13/12 08:18 PM Re: Is this G2 gray market? Should I not be buying it? [Re: pianobroker]
Sesshy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 15
Loc: Denver, CO, US
Actually, it does have three pedals. Interesting that their databases are inaccurate... I've already hired a tech anyways, but pianobroker, I really don't think the thing is going to need restringing anytime soon; it shows very little wear from playing and the tone proves it. That much, my ear is fit to determine. Perhaps the hammers could use some revoicing, but the strings, as with the soundboard and everything else except for that sunbleached portion of the lid, are practically immaculate and still very shiny:

http://i42.tinypic.com/9gvrih.jpg
(I took the photo myself)

I imagine the dryness of Colorado can be thanked for that, at least in part. As Bob said, if it checks out, and seeing as it's apparently not even grey market I'm certain it will, it's a lot of piano for my money.


Edited by Sesshy (04/13/12 08:19 PM)

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#1879346 - 04/14/12 02:37 AM Re: Is this G2 gray market? Should I not be buying it? [Re: Sesshy]
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
Actually the piano's top end looks very clean for being from 1978. Maybe a string cover. I would say that the piano was restrung at one time along with the soundboard being refinished and the duplex bars plated or polished. The soundboard lacquer on Yamaha grands from the 70's usually turns a burnt orange over age. Notice the steel wire (strings) on this piano.Most don't know that Yamaha uses plated Suzuki steel wire which can only be purchased in large spools for factory application. In any event the top end looks good,no doubt.Should check out.
_________________________
www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE

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