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Hi. I may buy a 1872 Steinway D and have it rebuilt by a very reputable shop. However a local technician is discouraging me since he says the wood will probably be too old and the piano won't be able to cope with the string tension which will be much higher than when those pianos were built. Any thoughts? Thank you very much

Look over in the Technician's area at what I had to say about restringing an old Bösendorfer.

I will add that pianos from the era before the construction became standardized are probably best left to people who specialize in such things, and not used as everyday instruments.

Hi MBA,

If the Steinway you are looking at was made in 1872, it is not a D. It is an earlier model with a very different design. Unless you are looking for a historic instrument that is quite different than a modern piano in both sound and touch, you might want to reconsider this. These early Steinways can be quite interesting and beautiful sounding, but I agree with BDB in that for most people, they are not an everyday instrument.
If you can link some pictures, or give more information about this particular instrument such as its length and number of keys, I can give you more information about it.
We have an 1865 Style IV 88 note Steinway concert grand which we restored ( although Steinway's sale records call it a Style III fancy, all other research seems to indicate it is a Style IV, apparently the same model could have been called by different numbers ) and it is a remarkable piano which I love, but it has a very particular sound that is quite different from a modern Steinway D.

As Keith said, the piano you are considering is a predecessor to the modern D. It is different in many respects but is quite a beautiful instrument in its own right.

There is no reason why these instruments cannot perform for world class players. Here is a link to a veteran Van Cliburn competitor performing on an 1875 Steinway concert grand that we had freshly rebuilt this past November:

Excerpt from an 11/11 performance on an 1875 Steinway Concert Grand

To bring out the potential on these instruments requires expertise and experience. They are a different beast from the modern D.

My 2 cents,

Wow that piano certainly has a sound of it's own. It's not a modern Steinway at all, it seems to have a lighter sound, with less sustain perhaps, but is a more dramatic, less homogenized sound than todays instruments have.

It's very interesting to hear the repertoire performed on the instruments of the day, because we tend to forget how much the piano has changed even in the last 30 years.

Beautiful sounding piano indeed. Encourages me to hold on to that old Bluthner of mine and have it rebuilt one day.

DON'T BUY IT!!! and don't get it rebuilt by someone who is going to change the scale and make it into something it's not..

buy a more modern piano if that's what you want, don't alter a piano which was born in a time when the overall sonority was sweeter and not as metallic..

I feel that you can do what you like with the more common pianos, but historic pianos need to be preserved for what they are, not as cheap wannabes of modern pianos.

Greetings,
Be advised that Steinway did not care for this model, changing it drastically in the next 10 or so years. There is a reason that they did not continue building pianos like this, they were inferior to the next generation!
The board will be dead, the action in need of replacement. To get the piano back to its original condition would cost above $30,000 and you would still have an inferior instrument.
To quote Al Sanderson, (inventor of the modern ETD), "Steinway sure learned a lot about pianos between 1870 and 1890."

Regards,

Wow Rich what nice light sound! and on a beast that size I expected excessive ringing overtones! no way! what a delight to hear..

Thank you Bob.



Ed,

You already know you have my total respect and the action absolutely had positive changes from the 1870's. But those three piece rim bellies that were being made in the concert grands right along side the continuous bent rime were beautiful man.

I feel the modern belly has two advantages:
1) it is cheaper to build
2) it is easier to repeat without a tremendous skill set.

These are two compelling reasons when when the newer design works well too. I just love the concert grands of this time. I love watching the differences year to year - almost piano to piano. I also appreciate all of the extra work and passion that was put into these beasts.

My 2 cents,

Thank you everyone. I tried to upload a picture, but I'm new at this and I'm not sure I did it right.

I don't need the sound of a modern D once this piano is rebuilt. In fact, I would love to have a warmer less bright tone than your typical D. I just want to make sure that this piano will be able to handle a full rebuild. The shop I would take it to is one of the best in the country.

Thank you all

I think the piano will handle a full rebuild, but a technician will know better. I think you're aware of what the end result could be and you're not in it to buy a modern piano at a reduced price (that's where Yamaha, Kawai, Brodmann etc come in - and rebuilding the Steinway will cost more than those pianos). I think if you love the piano, and you want to preserve the sound of it via a full rebuild, then go for it.

These old pianos are so special in their own way, offering a different tonal palette. Enjoy!

Thanks Ed,

But if I replace everything in the inside, soundboard, strings, action, etc., with the best available modern parts and just safe the case, why would you consider it still an inferior instrument?

Thank you, I don't have my laptop connected to a good sound system so it is difficult for me to appreciate the quality of the sound. It seems though that notes die very quickly, specially in the treble. Is that the case? FYI, if you love that Granados piece, go to youtube and listen to Alicia de Larocha playing the same... I'm afraid this Van Cliburn contestant doesn't get any of the true spirit of the piece. She should go to Spain and party a few nights with gypsies playing guitar and dancing flamenco, may be that would help...

Thank you. I tried linking pictures but I don't seem to be able to do it. Here I will try again.

Here's how I put up a photo:

(I start by upload my photo at a photohosting site.)

I go to www.postimage.org and UPLOAD my photo there.
Then I click on "copy to clipboard" beside the DIRECT LINK info that appears.

I then come to Pianoworld and in the posting window click on the square icon at the top that is the fourth from the left "Enter an image".
(You have to make sure that you are in the "Full Reply Screen" otherwise you will not see the icon options at the top of the window.)

Select any of the "centering" options that comes up in the pop up menu (I've never noticed a difference in which one I choose) and RIGHT CLICK on the address line and select PASTE then OK.

(That should copy the direct link location info that you got from the photohosting site.)

By doing those steps I've just loaded this picture that appears below.


Give it a shot because it's actually pretty simple to do and I'd like to see the pictures that you're trying to post.

MBA,

This piano is a more delicate tone than a modern D and I think Ang Li described it as a "sweeter" tone than she was used to from newer Ds that she has played. It was beautiful in that space, but it would not do in a house with 1500 seats, that is clear to me.

Having said that, none of the artists who have played this instrument have commented on a lack of sustain - and we did ask for a critique from each artist.

One day I would like to spend a few nights with Spanish gypsies and Flemenco dancers. I know I would learn from them.... and we might even get to their music.

Thank you for your post MBA. I enjoyed your comment.

MBA, the treble on the Steinway that you are considering definately is most noticably different than a modern D in the treble. The notes may sustain for an acceptable amount of time, but the sustain itself will be much lighter than on a good modern D with a strong treble. Also, because of the design, the treble in general, is not as strong as the rest of the piano in most objective ways.

Because of this, a pianist can achieve all sorts of interesting effects that may be more difficult or impossible on a modern piano with a stronger and thicker sounding treble. There is an inherant transparency to the sound of these pianos that allows one to understand better the intentions of the composers of that time by following the scores more exactly. For example, one can change the damper pedal less frequently, according to a score, and create beautiful atmospheric effects without creating a big messy blur which would happen on a modern piano.

You can rebuild these old Steinways to have stronger trebles and work more like a modern instrument, but I think that is a mistake. I believe the best rebuild approach with these instruments is to remain as faithful to the original sound of these pianos as possible, and love them for what they are and not for what they are not.

I do think it is ok to modernize the actions on these instruments if the intention is to play them regularly, but one can restore the original action on these instruments without modernizing them and they can work decently.

Also, as Rich pointed out, these instruments require experience and skill sets different from the rebuilding of modern Steinways.

Thank you, here we go [img:center]http://postimage.org/image/p8dr55he7/[/img]

Here you go:

Hi MBA,

It is unfortunate that they changed all of the beautiful historic details on that piano to modernize it. To get the correct legs, lyre, and music desk will be very expensive. Also, that piano was probably a gorgeous Rosewood before being made black. If the original Rosewood hasn't been ruined, to strip off that black finish and refinish it in Rosewood will be very expensive.

I would say it would be a very worthwhile project to save that piano and get it back to how it looked originally and restore it to its original sound, but this is a hugely expensive project to be done correctly, and if you are not into the type of sound this instrument is designed to have, it might not be for you.

I would recommend against trying to restore this piano to be a kind of weird semi modern instrument. If it works to your liking now, and it is cheap enough, that is probably worthwhile, or doing a major restoration to get it back to the way it was originally because you love the historic but very different sound of these instruments. I think any other approach might be regretted or a waste of money.