Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
115 registered (Albert Brighten, Anne H, ando, accordeur, 34 invisible), 1305 Guests and 18 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1879040 - 04/13/12 04:33 PM Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6762
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
It is my understanding that the Kawai RX BLAK and Kawai Shigeru pianos both have the Millenium III action. Is the Millenium III action really identical in both lines? What are the differences, if any?????
_________________________
Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
Hailun / Pearl River Pianos

 

Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano
#1879052 - 04/13/12 04:50 PM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 977
I don't think the action as such is different. Hammers might be (at least Kawai's description is different), and other parts (strings, soundboard, ...) will be. Most importantly, the instruments sound differently. Not so long ago I compared several RX2 with an SK2 - the latter was a quite another instrument. It's now standing in front of me.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.

Top
#1879056 - 04/13/12 04:59 PM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
Robert 45 Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 1432
Loc: Auckland New Zealand
Dear Carey,
I am no expert, but I believe that the Millenium III action is the same action which is used in both the Kawai RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos.

The Shigeru Kawai action will have more meticulous regulation and adjustment in these individually crafted pianos.

However, the hammers are different. Kawai claims that the "Shiko Seion" hammers, a feature of the Shigeru Kawai range, meaning "highest level of voicing", are hand pressed and use New Zealand and Australian long fibre wool.

Regards,
Robert.

Top
#1879071 - 04/13/12 05:20 PM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
terminaldegree Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 3048
Loc: western Wisconsin
Although I don't know the answer to your first question with certainty, it seems the actions on the Shigeru pianos are regulated to a finer degree of precision (and more to my liking than the RX Blak pianos the few times I've had a chance to try 'em back to back). The RX can seem slightly sluggish or less "dialed in" by comparison.
_________________________
Pianist, teacher, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer

Top
#1879096 - 04/13/12 05:54 PM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14600
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
It is my understanding that the Kawai RX BLAK and Kawai Shigeru pianos both have the Millenium III action. Is the Millenium III action really identical in both lines? What are the differences, if any?????


To me the question needs to be answered by the person playing and trying the various models.

Having played literally thousands of pianos in my life, I can only remember those which were well regulated and those which were not.

If I would have taken out the action each time to see what's inside, I would be still working on this...

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

Top
#1879223 - 04/13/12 09:47 PM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3457
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

Top
#1879274 - 04/13/12 11:48 PM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: beethoven986]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1697
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.


What facts or opinions, if any, are you basing your answer on?
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

Top
#1879281 - 04/14/12 12:02 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: maurus]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6762
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: maurus
I don't think the action as such is different. Hammers might be (at least Kawai's description is different), and other parts (strings, soundboard, ...) will be. Most importantly, the instruments sound differently. Not so long ago I compared several RX2 with an SK2 - the latter was a quite another instrument. It's now standing in front of me.


Lucky you !!!!! thumb
_________________________
Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#1879283 - 04/14/12 12:04 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: Robert 45]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6762
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Robert 45
Dear Carey,
I am no expert, but I believe that the Millenium III action is the same action which is used in both the Kawai RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos.

The Shigeru Kawai action will have more meticulous regulation and adjustment in these individually crafted pianos.

However, the hammers are different. Kawai claims that the "Shiko Seion" hammers, a feature of the Shigeru Kawai range, meaning "highest level of voicing", are hand pressed and use New Zealand and Australian long fibre wool.

Regards,
Robert.


Robert - while you might not be an expert, your reply does, indeed, make good sense. Thanks !!!!!!
_________________________
Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#1879284 - 04/14/12 12:07 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: terminaldegree]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6762
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: terminaldegree
Although I don't know the answer to your first question with certainty, it seems the actions on the Shigeru pianos are regulated to a finer degree of precision (and more to my liking than the RX Blak pianos the few times I've had a chance to try 'em back to back). The RX can seem slightly sluggish or less "dialed in" by comparison.


Thanks for your response !
_________________________
Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#1879288 - 04/14/12 12:10 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: Norbert]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6762
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Quote:
It is my understanding that the Kawai RX BLAK and Kawai Shigeru pianos both have the Millenium III action. Is the Millenium III action really identical in both lines? What are the differences, if any?????


To me the question needs to be answered by the person playing and trying the various models.

Having played literally thousands of pianos in my life, I can only remember those which were well regulated and those which were not.

If I would have taken out the action each time to see what's inside, I would be still working on this...

Norbert


Hi Norbert -

The actions are either identical or they aren't. The degree of regulation performed at the factory is another matter.

Best -
_________________________
Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#1879289 - 04/14/12 12:14 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: beethoven986]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6762
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.


So basically its the same action in both. Is it safe to assume that the Shigeru probably gets a bit more work in the regulation department?? smile
_________________________
Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#1879309 - 04/14/12 12:49 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
Rafterman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/12
Posts: 407
Loc: New York
Does someone have an itemized list of these two pianos features and components side by side for comparison?

Top
#1879330 - 04/14/12 01:57 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: Rafterman]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6762
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Rafterman
Does someone have an itemized list of these two pianos features and components side by side for comparison?


These details can be found on Kawai's websites for each piano (RX and Shigeru).

The websites for both the Kawai RX BLAK and Kawai Shigeru describe the actions as "Millenium III action with ABS carbon."
_________________________
Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top
#1879388 - 04/14/12 05:39 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 977
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.


So basically its the same action in both. Is it safe to assume that the Shigeru probably gets a bit more work in the regulation department?? smile


I think so - if you mean: in the factory. However, a good technician can regulate an RX2 to a similar level of precision, and even an SK2 can go out of optimal regulation.

While this *has* to do with sound, and playability, it is not the only factor determining sound and the way the instrument responds. Don't underestimate the role of the hammers. And I suspect the fuller sound and sustain that I found in the two Shigerus I compared with the RX pianos has to do a lot with the strings (particularly in the bass) and other construction details.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.

Top
#1879404 - 04/14/12 07:31 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1879
I think that the Shigeru has exactly the same action as the RX, but the hammer head is difficult. The same level of regulation should be available on both pianos with a good technician. The soundboard is different and there is more hand finishing on the Shigeru. The price isn't soooooo much higher for a Shigeru (in the UK anyway) so it may just come down to a matter of taste between two individual pianos (say RX2 vs SK2). Some RX2 may sound better than some SK2 and vice versa.

Top
#1879420 - 04/14/12 08:06 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 977
Not in my (limited) experience (so far).
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.

Top
#1879422 - 04/14/12 08:09 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1879
Nor in mine, well, actually there was an old KG-2 that happened to be one of the nicest small grands I've played. That was more to do with this particular piano being exceptional than any of the others being inferior. Also, it was an exception to the rule, because usually the KG-2 isn't that good, or hasn't been looked after or etc etc.

Top
#1879467 - 04/14/12 10:32 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: maurus]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6762
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: maurus
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.


So basically its the same action in both. Is it safe to assume that the Shigeru probably gets a bit more work in the regulation department?? smile


I think so - if you mean: in the factory. However, a good technician can regulate an RX2 to a similar level of precision, and even an SK2 can go out of optimal regulation.

While this *has* to do with sound, and playability, it is not the only factor determining sound and the way the instrument responds. Don't underestimate the role of the hammers. And I suspect the fuller sound and sustain that I found in the two Shigerus I compared with the RX pianos has to do a lot with the strings (particularly in the bass) and other construction details.


Yes - I meant "in the factory." grin

I realize that the hammers, strings, construction details, etc. are different...I just wanted to verify that the basic "action" was the same.

Thanks !!
_________________________
Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
(ad) Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
Composer Statuettes
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tours
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Old Sample Pianos
by lgarcia
05/25/15 10:49 PM
What well-known piano piece does this opening resemble
by hreichgott
05/25/15 09:13 PM
Pure G1G4 and G1B4?
by Weiyan
05/25/15 08:36 PM
Am I expecting too much from my piano teachers?
by Utkonos
05/25/15 08:09 PM
Frederic Lamond talks about Liszt's lessons
by Batuhan
05/25/15 07:29 PM
What's Hot!!
New Forum for Selling Your Products or Services
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
79,419 Registered Members
44 Forums
164,335 Topics
2,410,456 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission