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#1879040 - 04/13/12 04:33 PM Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6469
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
It is my understanding that the Kawai RX BLAK and Kawai Shigeru pianos both have the Millenium III action. Is the Millenium III action really identical in both lines? What are the differences, if any?????
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#1879052 - 04/13/12 04:50 PM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 867
I don't think the action as such is different. Hammers might be (at least Kawai's description is different), and other parts (strings, soundboard, ...) will be. Most importantly, the instruments sound differently. Not so long ago I compared several RX2 with an SK2 - the latter was a quite another instrument. It's now standing in front of me.
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Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.

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#1879056 - 04/13/12 04:59 PM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
Robert 45 Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 1318
Loc: Auckland New Zealand
Dear Carey,
I am no expert, but I believe that the Millenium III action is the same action which is used in both the Kawai RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos.

The Shigeru Kawai action will have more meticulous regulation and adjustment in these individually crafted pianos.

However, the hammers are different. Kawai claims that the "Shiko Seion" hammers, a feature of the Shigeru Kawai range, meaning "highest level of voicing", are hand pressed and use New Zealand and Australian long fibre wool.

Regards,
Robert.

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#1879071 - 04/13/12 05:20 PM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
terminaldegree Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2818
Loc: western Wisconsin
Although I don't know the answer to your first question with certainty, it seems the actions on the Shigeru pianos are regulated to a finer degree of precision (and more to my liking than the RX Blak pianos the few times I've had a chance to try 'em back to back). The RX can seem slightly sluggish or less "dialed in" by comparison.
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#1879096 - 04/13/12 05:54 PM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14265
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
It is my understanding that the Kawai RX BLAK and Kawai Shigeru pianos both have the Millenium III action. Is the Millenium III action really identical in both lines? What are the differences, if any?????


To me the question needs to be answered by the person playing and trying the various models.

Having played literally thousands of pianos in my life, I can only remember those which were well regulated and those which were not.

If I would have taken out the action each time to see what's inside, I would be still working on this...

Norbert
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#1879223 - 04/13/12 09:47 PM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3371
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.
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#1879274 - 04/13/12 11:48 PM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: beethoven986]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1663
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.


What facts or opinions, if any, are you basing your answer on?
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#1879281 - 04/14/12 12:02 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: maurus]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6469
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: maurus
I don't think the action as such is different. Hammers might be (at least Kawai's description is different), and other parts (strings, soundboard, ...) will be. Most importantly, the instruments sound differently. Not so long ago I compared several RX2 with an SK2 - the latter was a quite another instrument. It's now standing in front of me.


Lucky you !!!!! thumb
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YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1879283 - 04/14/12 12:04 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: Robert 45]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6469
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Robert 45
Dear Carey,
I am no expert, but I believe that the Millenium III action is the same action which is used in both the Kawai RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos.

The Shigeru Kawai action will have more meticulous regulation and adjustment in these individually crafted pianos.

However, the hammers are different. Kawai claims that the "Shiko Seion" hammers, a feature of the Shigeru Kawai range, meaning "highest level of voicing", are hand pressed and use New Zealand and Australian long fibre wool.

Regards,
Robert.


Robert - while you might not be an expert, your reply does, indeed, make good sense. Thanks !!!!!!
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1879284 - 04/14/12 12:07 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: terminaldegree]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6469
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: terminaldegree
Although I don't know the answer to your first question with certainty, it seems the actions on the Shigeru pianos are regulated to a finer degree of precision (and more to my liking than the RX Blak pianos the few times I've had a chance to try 'em back to back). The RX can seem slightly sluggish or less "dialed in" by comparison.


Thanks for your response !
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1879288 - 04/14/12 12:10 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: Norbert]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6469
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Quote:
It is my understanding that the Kawai RX BLAK and Kawai Shigeru pianos both have the Millenium III action. Is the Millenium III action really identical in both lines? What are the differences, if any?????


To me the question needs to be answered by the person playing and trying the various models.

Having played literally thousands of pianos in my life, I can only remember those which were well regulated and those which were not.

If I would have taken out the action each time to see what's inside, I would be still working on this...

Norbert


Hi Norbert -

The actions are either identical or they aren't. The degree of regulation performed at the factory is another matter.

Best -
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1879289 - 04/14/12 12:14 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: beethoven986]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6469
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.


So basically its the same action in both. Is it safe to assume that the Shigeru probably gets a bit more work in the regulation department?? smile
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1879309 - 04/14/12 12:49 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
Rafterman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/12
Posts: 407
Loc: New York
Does someone have an itemized list of these two pianos features and components side by side for comparison?

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#1879330 - 04/14/12 01:57 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: Rafterman]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6469
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Rafterman
Does someone have an itemized list of these two pianos features and components side by side for comparison?


These details can be found on Kawai's websites for each piano (RX and Shigeru).

The websites for both the Kawai RX BLAK and Kawai Shigeru describe the actions as "Millenium III action with ABS carbon."
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YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1879388 - 04/14/12 05:39 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 867
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.


So basically its the same action in both. Is it safe to assume that the Shigeru probably gets a bit more work in the regulation department?? smile


I think so - if you mean: in the factory. However, a good technician can regulate an RX2 to a similar level of precision, and even an SK2 can go out of optimal regulation.

While this *has* to do with sound, and playability, it is not the only factor determining sound and the way the instrument responds. Don't underestimate the role of the hammers. And I suspect the fuller sound and sustain that I found in the two Shigerus I compared with the RX pianos has to do a lot with the strings (particularly in the bass) and other construction details.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.

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#1879404 - 04/14/12 07:31 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1437
I think that the Shigeru has exactly the same action as the RX, but the hammer head is difficult. The same level of regulation should be available on both pianos with a good technician. The soundboard is different and there is more hand finishing on the Shigeru. The price isn't soooooo much higher for a Shigeru (in the UK anyway) so it may just come down to a matter of taste between two individual pianos (say RX2 vs SK2). Some RX2 may sound better than some SK2 and vice versa.

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#1879420 - 04/14/12 08:06 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 867
Not in my (limited) experience (so far).
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.

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#1879422 - 04/14/12 08:09 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: carey]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1437
Nor in mine, well, actually there was an old KG-2 that happened to be one of the nicest small grands I've played. That was more to do with this particular piano being exceptional than any of the others being inferior. Also, it was an exception to the rule, because usually the KG-2 isn't that good, or hasn't been looked after or etc etc.

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#1879467 - 04/14/12 10:32 AM Re: Actions - RX BLAK and Shigeru Kawai pianos [Re: maurus]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6469
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: maurus
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: beethoven986
If you're asking whether or not one is inherently superior over the other, the answer is no.


So basically its the same action in both. Is it safe to assume that the Shigeru probably gets a bit more work in the regulation department?? smile


I think so - if you mean: in the factory. However, a good technician can regulate an RX2 to a similar level of precision, and even an SK2 can go out of optimal regulation.

While this *has* to do with sound, and playability, it is not the only factor determining sound and the way the instrument responds. Don't underestimate the role of the hammers. And I suspect the fuller sound and sustain that I found in the two Shigerus I compared with the RX pianos has to do a lot with the strings (particularly in the bass) and other construction details.


Yes - I meant "in the factory." grin

I realize that the hammers, strings, construction details, etc. are different...I just wanted to verify that the basic "action" was the same.

Thanks !!
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