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Joined: Nov 2004
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You give the impression that you are not happy with your current level of playing and have areas you would like to improve on. The real question is is there something going on in your life right now that gives you the impression you will be able to improve, and that's why you're posting this?

Are your starting with a new teacher? Having more time off from work to be able to practice? Suddenly have a revelation that you going to start practicing 4 hours a day instead of 1? If any NEW doors are opening in your pianistic life, then no - don't give up, since I do believe technique can be improved at any age. If, however, you are not making any new changes in your practice amount/habits and just expect that you will naturally get better, then I think you will need to accept that you're playing will stay where it is and will need to make peace with that.

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An off-topic thing for a second to OpusM: Wouldn't it be good to say something about that 'thing' from a couple of weeks ago? What the heck was it about? You never really said, and you didn't help us in straightening it out. It would have been good at least for you to help somehow in giving it closure, maybe just something like a "sorry, it was wrong, forget it." You left us just to scramble around trying to find out something, without the full benefit of whatever you had heard and who your source was. In any event it was (it seems) a pretty bad mistake, and you never acknowledged it.

If you feel like saying anything, this thread is still open.

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Well since both topics were actively closed, and I didn't feel like making yet a third about it, I'd figured it was best to drop it. But since you ask, I'll PM you with the details about this and where it originated from, and why I took it to heart.

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...AND just found out you are not accepting PM's...

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I showed you the thread that was left open (and still is).

(How about anything else about this goes on the other thread....)

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I'm well past the half-century mark in age, and am committed to improving my technique. I have worked hard at it and am showing some results, in spite of everything. I did have some college-level training, but basically had no technical background to speak of, which I have set about trying to remedy. It works, even if it does feel a little odd to still be learning how to play the piano after playing for over fifty years.

We are all different, and for me, thinking about how well others play is usually counter-productive, except maybe in very small doses. Mostly, I simply am enjoying the process for its own sake, without big goals. The improvement happens without them, so why torture myself with that kind of stuff? I work on very small, incremental things, and that's usually where I find the rewards. What is really fun is revisiting something I used to read through, and discover that the "impossible" bits are now actually possible.





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Originally Posted by ando
I used to try to improve my playing exclusively through playing different pieces which were technically demanding. I eventually decided this was not working so well for me. I would be somewhat distracted by the piece itself and not really sort out the minutia of the technique required. It's possible to enjoy playing a masterpiece and be technically deficient in many ways. So I did exactly what Ronald is proposing, I developed a technical drill which addressed my various technical weakness. I still do it every single day.

It is not a totally set routine - it changes according to what needs work the most in my playing, and it continues to evolve according to the improvements in my technique. Examples of some things I do: I run through every major/minor key in octaves, 3rds, 6ths. I do arpeggios with alternate fingerings across 4 octaves - sometimes in inversion in one hand so each hand has to think about different notes. I do chromatic scales with different fingerings. Maybe a bit of Hanon, but not much. I also add variety to this program by using accelerandos, cresc/dim, loud/soft, staccato/tenuto/legato, different rhythmic groupings. - you name it, I try to put in as many musical variations on this material as I can. I try to be aware from my playing of pieces, what is most needed in terms of development. It is a needs-based system, even though the drill has a lot of elements that are similar every time. It takes around 45 minutes to run through - and I intentionally keep it no longer than this because I don't want to become jaded with the very approach that is reaping such benefits. Many days I don't even feel like doing it, but I treat it like a price of admission. I have to pay that price every day and by the time I'm finished, I'm always glad I've done it.

To say it has helped my playing would be a massive understatement. I've had people who hadn't seen me play in a about a year tell me that I sound like a totally different musician. It has raised my basic level of technical readiness by a great degree. It as been more efficient than trying to make the same changes by playing through pieces. It's reduced the fatigue from pieces that can come from overpractising them. It has also given me confidence in myself to diagnose my own needs and to readily make exercises that address them in my very next technical drill session. I usually do the drill before I do any other playing, based on what I felt needed work from my session(s) yesterday. The skills being developed can be roughly split into the categories of short, medium and long-term goals. Hence some skills being constantly maintained/evolved, others might be only used for a short time and revisited on necessity. It helps that I'm a teacher and am used to pedagogical principles, but it has been a real eye-opener to me to apply those principles rigourously to myself. I'm sure it has made me a better teacher and have a better understanding of what my students are experiencing. It's put a certain discipline into my playing and my life that was lacking.


+1 ....Thanks for sharing your experience!

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Originally Posted by Opus_Maximus
You give the impression that you are not happy with your current level of playing and have areas you would like to improve on. The real question is is there something going on in your life right now that gives you the impression you will be able to improve, and that's why you're posting this?

Are your starting with a new teacher? Having more time off from work to be able to practice? Suddenly have a revelation that you going to start practicing 4 hours a day instead of 1? If any NEW doors are opening in your pianistic life, then no - don't give up, since I do believe technique can be improved at any age. If, however, you are not making any new changes in your practice amount/habits and just expect that you will naturally get better, then I think you will need to accept that you're playing will stay where it is and will need to make peace with that.


Hi Opus,
Not I am not happy, I want to improve more. I made a new commitment. I want to try for the next year or two, if there is no improvement, I will accept the reality. But I will not give up before I try this. I will tell my teacher to help me with this project. I am willing to pay him two hours lesson, one hour for technique and one hour for pieces.

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Like you, wr, I'm well past the half-century mark (62, to be exact). But I like your philosophy: "enjoying the process for its own sake, without big goals. The improvement happens without them, so why torture myself?"

I only had 4 months of formal lessons back in 8th grade, and then foolishly became a piano major when I was 19. I was amazed that I actually received an A for my first quarter, so I decided to try another quarter. Dropped to a C, at which point I dropped out of college entirely. As Dirty Harry said, "A man's got to know his limitations."

Since then, I've always had a piano, and I play regularly. But I don't practice. I put my headphones on to spare my wife any aural discomfort, and simply leap from one easy piece to another, never stopping to really work on any of them. Then I'll get bored and open up a Chopin Ballade, and just hack away here and there, to no real purpose. With no technical foundation, I'm confined to a very small play pen. Common sense would dictate that I pitch all of my sheet music, except "Album for the Young". (Problem is, I'm not a big Schumann fan).

But since joining PW, I've started toying with the idea of perhaps, maybe, at some time (tomorrow or the next day), making some feeble attempt to actually practice something - anything. And maybe my goal should be as simple as: make it sound better than it did the last time.


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If you are in a position to find a teacher and get some positive advice/lessons with technique as a priority, then if you're not 95 yet you should be able to make some serious progress providing the teacher is competent and can direct you ably in your quest.

You need a daily regimen of technique and changes periodically to cover new areas.

But, you must be willing to apply yourself and persevere or it is a lost cause.

Ralph

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Originally Posted by wr
I'm well past the half-century mark in age, and am committed to improving my technique. I have worked hard at it and am showing some results, in spite of everything. I did have some college-level training, but basically had no technical background to speak of, which I have set about trying to remedy. It works, even if it does feel a little odd to still be learning how to play the piano after playing for over fifty years.

We are all different, and for me, thinking about how well others play is usually counter-productive, except maybe in very small doses. Mostly, I simply am enjoying the process for its own sake, without big goals. The improvement happens without them, so why torture myself with that kind of stuff? I work on very small, incremental things, and that's usually where I find the rewards. What is really fun is revisiting something I used to read through, and discover that the "impossible" bits are now actually possible.






I'd say I'm in roughly the same place. I'm finally working with a teacher on some basic stuff I never learned wrt to how to use my hands and arms -- not that I wouldn't have wanted to do this in the past, but until now I never encountered anyone who knew how to teach it, so better late than never. As far as being able to compete in competitions, play big pieces, etc., who knows? If it happens it happens, but it's not my primary goal.


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Originally Posted by Varcon
If you are in a position to find a teacher and get some positive advice/lessons with technique as a priority, then if you're not 95 yet you should be able to make some serious progress providing the teacher is competent and can direct you ably in your quest.

You need a daily regimen of technique and changes periodically to cover new areas.

But, you must be willing to apply yourself and persevere or it is a lost cause.

Ralph


Here, I have just sent an e-mail to my piano teacher. Let's wait for his reply.

Here is the e-mail. (see below)

After the lesson on Sunday, I had thought about improving my technique that I have never had, for I never had learned piano technique properly.
Do you think you can help me with this, or willing to help? If you think it is doable, I really would like to pursue this. We can increase the lesson to 1.5 hour or 2 hours every time you come. My goal is to be able to play bigger pieces, but now, I am lacking of technical ability. Could you please let me know what you think?

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Ok--wait for the reply. In the meantime what does your teacher do for you at a lesson? While not a pre-requisite or even a standard procedure, my teachers had me do some kind of exercises, even if only a portion of them, to see that I was doing them properly at the beginning of the lesson. If satisfied with that portion, the lesson continued with the pieces and detailed instruction on phrasing, fingering, dynamics, touch, etc.

Then if something seemed to have accomplished its purpose then maybe a new type of exercise was prescribed and perhaps a continuation of the previous one or totally new.
I might suggest that you read books by various pianists--teachers and performers on their perspectives as to technique as they have covered the 'road' as it were and know what worked for them and others. As hands are not the same then some adapting has to be done. Generally your teacher would be the one to advise you on that path.

However, reading books by famous artists and teachers can be very helpful and enlightening.

Ralph

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