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#1893945 - 05/09/12 04:36 AM Re: Sampled VS Modelled Pianos ??? [Re: galaksa]
madAhorn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 23
Wow...that must be the best bargain in piano sounds ever!
$599.00 at musicians friend for that module!
Maybe I will add it to my CP5...

Hmm....

How do the EP's sound?
The piano demo sounded great!

I cannot find it anywhere else online other than Musicians Friend...interesting...


Edited by madAhorn (05/09/12 04:38 AM)

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#1893952 - 05/09/12 04:48 AM Re: Sampled VS Modelled Pianos ??? [Re: galaksa]
Yuri Pavlov Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 211
Loc: Moscow, Russia
Originally Posted By: galaksa

Here is a Fazioli Grand sound from my GEM RP-X:

https://www.box.com/s/41291d01f02d604bdfed

As for the samplers-romplers, all the worthy ones are for laptops only. But laptops tend to become obsolete. While the old familiar hardware friend will please you forever...


Sound is great!!! Thank you!
But at 2:49 - is it polyphony or playing problem? Repedaling?
3:50-3:53 - repedaling is abscent! It isnt good.


Edited by Yuri Pavlov (05/09/12 04:51 AM)
_________________________
DP: Korg Sp-250,Pianoteq 3.x, TruePianos 1.9x;
Grand piano: Blutner, Muhlbach, Yamaha;
Upright: Kalujanka;
English (with some problems)

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#1893973 - 05/09/12 06:39 AM Re: Sampled VS Modelled Pianos ??? [Re: madAhorn]
galaksa Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 9
Loc: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Originally Posted By: madAhorn
Wow...that must be the best bargain in piano sounds ever!
$599.00 at musicians friend for that module!
Maybe I will add it to my CP5...

How do the EP's sound?
The piano demo sounded great!

I cannot find it anywhere else online other than Musicians Friend...interesting...


I found (bought) it on musicstore.de. Use google & youtube.
Here is EP's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=654tyDiaEMg
Some people try RP-X and return it cause it sounds too sharp and bright by default. Midi velocity converter is the solution (custom velocity curves). Bear in mind that you can change tons of sound parameters like attack, release, decay, tremolo, vibrato, portamento, 4 reverb parameters, parameteric EQ etc. for each voice from your PC. Also you can merge up to 4 voices in one performance.
Ok, I have to make a thread on RP-X smile.

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#1894002 - 05/09/12 08:34 AM Re: Sampled VS Modelled Pianos ??? [Re: galaksa]
Gigantoad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
Originally Posted By: galaksa
[quote=madAhorn]
Ok, I have to make a thread on RP-X smile.


Yep, do that. Sounds interesting, I was under the impression it was mostly based on samples.

Edit: odd, look at this, seems 3 people have returned it. That's an unusually high number, wonder what the reason was.

Edit2: sorry link not working, just search for "RP-X" on Musicstore.


Edited by Gigantoad (05/09/12 08:46 AM)

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#1894018 - 05/09/12 09:07 AM Re: Sampled VS Modelled Pianos ??? [Re: Gigantoad]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3193
I returned my RP-X.

I liked it, it had a better piano sound than what I had been using, but not sufficiently better to bring around and wire up more gear. If it had better EPs, that might have put me over the edge to keeping it. (The EPs are pleasant, but not the most realistic, especially in the "bark").

The stretching is very audible if you listen for it, though honestly, in live playing, you rarely hear that anyway.

I sometimes found the string resonance to be too heavy when playing in mono, and couldn't find a way to reduce the effect.

Overall, I'd rank the RP-X as a bit better than the Yamaha MOX, and not as good as the Nord Bosendorfer, for example.

But as always, these things are subjective...

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#1894026 - 05/09/12 09:16 AM Re: Sampled VS Modelled Pianos ??? [Re: galaksa]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3193
Originally Posted By: galaksa
V-piano and pianoteq only? There is another physical modeling technology that is worthy of attention. Its DRAKE by Generalmusic.
...
Now I have GEM RP-X piano module, it uses only 64MB of samples (50 voices sound list), physical modeling does the rest.

As you allude to there, the RP-X falls into the category of the Roland FP-4F/RD-300NX/FP-7F/RD-700NX and Yamaha CP1/CP5/CP50 of being hybrid sampling+modeling. The V-Piano, PIanoteq, and forthcoming Physis are strictly modeling, I believe.

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#1894073 - 05/09/12 10:40 AM Re: Sampled VS Modelled Pianos ??? [Re: musicmad]
galaksa Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 9
Loc: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Ok, I've taken a look on Nord Bosendorfer on youtube.
IMHO, it has nothing to do with the original one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhYQtFlbjwM

Just another sampling hardware.
Yep, the RP-X is rather hybrid sampling + modeling.
At least it has no mad price.


Edited by galaksa (05/09/12 10:43 AM)

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#1894082 - 05/09/12 10:57 AM Re: Sampled VS Modelled Pianos ??? [Re: musicmad]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
I have owned the RP-X and the PRP800. If the darn thing hadn't crapped out on me, I'd still be playing the PRP. I would rank the playing experience (sound, not action) alongside Roland's SN. In fact, in some ways it felt more alive. Timbre variation was more limited, but other than that it was more enjoyable to play than any other non-SN DP I've owned. I also loved the EPs. They didn't quite have the authentic nuances, but there was absolutely no layering, stretching or looping going on, which rendered them closer to the original in response than most alternatives.

Funnily enough, I didn't warm to the RP-X as much as the PRP. That may indeed have had something to do with velocity curves, although I think the RP-X was also set up slightly differently to the PRP, soundwise. All that is adjustable as has been pointed out above.
_________________________
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http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1894089 - 05/09/12 11:06 AM Re: Sampled VS Modelled Pianos ??? [Re: galaksa]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3193
Originally Posted By: galaksa
Ok, I've taken a look on Nord Bosendorfer on youtube.
IMHO, it has nothing to do with the original one

That may be, but it's still a good DP sound. Have you seen this thread?

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1530919

It's interesting not just because of the Nord samples and comments, but also that it's being compared with the hybrid sampled/modeled CP5.

Originally Posted By: galaksa
Just another sampling hardware.

Better than most, I'd say. I also like it better than the semi-modeled Roland FP-7F et al.

Originally Posted By: galaksa
At least it has no mad price.

Yeah, Nord is not a budget line! Though I don't think there's anything cheaper than an Electro 3 that has as good a piano and as good of an organ. (Though you'd still have to connect another controller regardless, to have weighted and unweighted actions to play them from.) The sample library and ability to load your own samples is cool too. So while not cheap, I wouldn't necessarily say it's a bad value.

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#1894228 - 05/09/12 02:58 PM Re: Sampled VS Modelled Pianos ??? [Re: musicmad]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I had a GEM RP-X module.

Got rid of it. It's nothing special and it MUST be pointed out, it is sample-based. To call it modelled is very misleading. There are modelled elements such as string resonance but the base piano tones are completely sampled. It played MUCH too loudly at low velocities and I found the timbral change across all velocities a bit limited. I hated the Fazioli but the Steinway was quite nice and woody and had some subtleties in there, but as I say, it was really nothing special.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1894572 - 05/10/12 04:06 AM Re: Sampled VS Modelled Pianos ??? [Re: EssBrace]
galaksa Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 9
Loc: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I had a GEM RP-X module.
It's nothing special and it MUST be pointed out, it is sample-based. To call it modelled is very misleading. There are modelled elements such as string resonance but the base piano tones are completely sampled.


Ok, we already have found out RP-X is based on a hybrid technology, something like Roland’s SuperNatural and Korg’s SGX-1. But maybe that is the golden mean that we are looking for? Market success of such a technology is the proof.

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
It played MUCH too loudly at low velocities and I found the timbral change across all velocities a bit limited.


There is a good old anecdote:
- Do you like cats?
- No.
- You just don't know how to cook them.

Did You try to play with the programmable parameters? Did You try to dig in to find Your sound?
Well, I just have to start a thread on GEM RP-X module.

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#1894617 - 05/10/12 07:18 AM Re: Sampled VS Modelled Pianos ??? [Re: musicmad]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Although the acoustic piano sounds in the RP-X are based on samples (with modeled elements), and the EPs are pure modeling, I remember reading that the sound generator never actually plays back raw sample data for APs, but uses look-up tables to establish what to generate. (Apologies, I can't recall the source document.) Those with more technical know-how may be able to interpret this in a way that makes sense.

I agree with the thrust of what you're saying, galaksa: the combination of sampling and modeling seems to produce results that satisfy most people in terms of sound and playability.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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