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Greetings from Missouri!

I have a local funeral home that has a Steinway made in 1914. The piano has several loose pins. Eventually they want to have the piano professionally restored by Steinway, but asked me to help them "get by" with the piano for a couple more years. It is not really holding it's tuning. I have used CA glue before with great success, however I am a little hesitant to use it on this piano. By using the CA glue, would I ruin the value of this piano? Do you consider CA glue a last ditch effort? Should I tell them that it needs a new pin block and just hold off until they can have it restored? Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

If the piano is not staying in tune and they are asking you to help the piano "get by" for a few more years, then go ahead with the CA glue. If they are going to, eventually, have it professionally restored, it will get a new pin block then...and the current CA glue treatment won't matter.

I wonder...has there been a case where the pinblock got glued to the plate from the treatment?

That's a good question Loren. I use CA glue a lot on pinblocks but it's usually pianos that are on their last leg anyway. I have wondered what the result would be if the piano were to be rebuilt. Would some rebuilder be cussing me out?

Ryan - Do you think they're serious about getting it rebuilt? Are they just saying that but won't follow through? Will it be 20 years before they get it rebuilt? If you think that's the case then I'd say go for it for sure.

That's what I was thinking, Scott. I wonder if it makes it really difficult to knock the old pinblock loose.

It's an acceptable band-aid for the interim, and won't ruin the piano's value. As mentioned, the pin block will be replaced during a rebuild, anyway.

Someone commented recently that CA glue had glued the block to the plate on a grand so it is possible. I don't know if the numbers would work for Steinway to rebuild a vertical piano. It might be a better option just to buy a new upright, and I could think of several brand options for that - Steinway and others.

I've used CA plenty of times, and I'd use it in this case as well.

There are many ways of using CA glue. Used a little bit at a time, there isn't any real danger of gluing the pinblock in... However, I have read of techs using multiple bottles of glue, and putting paper in the action cavity to catch the overflow - that sounds like a problem in the making.

I would use a few drops (3-5) per pin the first time and then go back and put a few more drops in the pins that are still a little loose. Let them know this isn't an "instant" fix, but will cure all of the pins with a couple of applications.

Fresh, high quality water-thin glue applied neatly, can hardly be seen.

Ron Koval

If you fix it for them they will never go ahead with the proper repairs needed. I have seen the same scenario over and over again and it takes total component failure to convince owners to proceed with comprehensive repairs. Maybe tap in, or set, the offending tuning pins to give the threads some new wood follicles to hold it and when the coils reach the plate then it's time to proceed with repairs. If it was a lesser piano that gets minimal play then CA it but for a business such as this don't apply long term band aids. You will be called back repeatedly to fix out of tune notes or resort to oversized pins. How is the rest of the components. Hammers worn? Key bushings with too much side play? If it's income your after than go ahead and apply the CA but this is a business that uses this piano as a fundamental component of their business. Can you restring and restore ? Take this project on. My opinion.

Even if it did, I doubt that it would be such a big deal. You may have to scrape off a few fragments of the old wood here and there.

It would take a whole lot of CA and sloppy application to get a large area of the interface glued. Even in that case, it shouldn't be too much extra work. You can divide and conquer: Cut the old block into pieces. Sawzall some kerfs and use an old beater chisel to get prying access.

I've seen some incredibly sloppy applications! There's a console around here that is absolutely hideous. CA running halfway down the plate, then sprayed with accelerator. It's a white-colored mess.

A Mason Grand we are in the process of rebuilding had considerable CA glue treatment.

Yes, the block was well glued to the plate. Fortunately CA sheers well considering it is between wood and cast iron. The underside of the webbing cleaned up easily.

I would not be concerned about separating the block after CA.

If its just a few loose pins here and there, why would you not just go with some oversized pins and be done with it? As an alternative, you can wind out the pins, CA the hole itself and drive the pins back in for a more neater and effective CA job.

CA glue can be removed and loosened with debonder if any gets where you don't want it.
Plates are usually lifted out with some kind of winch/come along and still should separate if some glue gets in behind it. Wire brush wheel would clean up the remanents. Not fun, but nothing tragic.

Because C/A is a heck of a lot quicker and easier. I had three loose pins on a Wurlie mini piano this week. I used C/A on them without tipping the piano. It just wicked in and I used a paper towel to collect the overflow before it ran down the strings or plate. Worked just fine, and took about a minute.

I have beenn told lately to use thin brass sheet , for ancient instruments, it allows to change strings without loosing the wood or abrasive inserted in the hole.

Durable and reversible fix (used in 2 parts inserted in the hole)

I don't like pounding in pins - throws off the angles, just grabs a tiny bit of new wood.

Don't like using any shims - weakens the string as you uncoil and recoil, plus can just provide a bigger problem as you force the wood of the pinblock apart...

Same with oversize pins - if you are dealing with a weakened pinblock structure, tossing something bigger in the hole will just make things worse...

Pulling pins to swab with CA has the same problem of taking more time, weakening the string and causing instability problems.

Be mindful of indoor humidity level, CA doesn't set up if the humidity is low - it may cause you to have to schedule multiple trips, or wait until the humidity is higher. I still would be hesitant to use a spray accelerator around the pins and strings.

Ron Koval

Putting in oversized pins does require one to assess the situation first and if they are located around each other then yes, you may aggravate a cracking block. Angles don't change if done right and I haven't seen a string break from the process and have been doing it for several decades. Sure it takes a bit more time but you retain the same inherant feel on the min when tuning afterwards (albiet, tighter).

I do the CA treatment myself with usually good results but often loose pins encountered around here are most often already driven down deeper by previous techs. At some point you are gunking up the coils with CA on these and leaving a less than ideal position for the wire to come off the pin. If your pulling out the pin to reset it with CA, why not just put in a tighter pin, if your carrying them? Loose pins can also be caused by aggessive tuning, flagpoling ect...not always a cracking block causing it.

I have never pulled a pin out to apply CA glue. The whole point of using CA glue is so you don't have to pull the pin out. If you pulled the pin out then, yes, just put in an over-sized pin.

Weird, I just did the same thing on a mini Wurlitzer (72 keys) this week!
You know, using CA glue is so quick, easy and effective that I'm really amazed every time I use it.

Don't know about your Wurli, Scott, but mine wasn't too bad for build quality. Nice cabinet as well.