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#1880665 - 04/16/12 04:54 PM Mini digital grand piano
SherazPianoGuy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 48
Loc: Nj, MiddleSex, NorthBrunswick
I am planning to buy a mini digital grand piano. It has to be a mini digital grand piano (not an up right or a simple keyboard). My budget goes from 3k to 5k. So far I have these three in the list (based on the recommendation of an expert)

Yamaha CLP465GP (Price: 5,000)
Samick SG-310 (Price: 3,000)
Omega LX802 (Price: 4,500)

How the instrument sounds matters the most to me. I have been told that there is no way mini digital grand piano can give you the feel of a grand piano but they do sound like grand piano. I have never played grand piano and am a beginner. Should it matter too much to me if I get the same feeling as of grand piano (I don't even know how it feels for now)????
I will try out Yamaha in my local area but I haven't found anyone who has Samick or Omega in Nj or Pa. Therefore, it'd be great if I can get some input here.
The reason Yamaha and Omega are more expensive is because they have 128 polyphone (can someone explain what this means) and Samick has 64. On the other hand, Samick has 6 speakers with 120 watts while yamaha and Omega has 4 speakers with 80 wattss.
Does having more speakers and watts produce better sound???

Thanks

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#1880693 - 04/16/12 05:22 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
BrokenChord Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 288
Loc: Michigan
May I ask why you are only considering a digital grand piano and you're a beginner?

Originally Posted By: Sheraz Khan
I have been told that there is no way mini digital grand piano can give you the feel of a grand piano but they do sound like grand piano. I have never played grand piano and am a beginner. Should it matter too much to me if I get the same feeling as of grand piano (I don't even know how it feels for now)????


So are you just looking for a mini Grand just for aesthetics?

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#1880695 - 04/16/12 05:25 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3866
Loc: North Carolina
I've never heard of the Omega, and I was unaware that Samick makes digital pianos.

But the CLP465 is grossly overpriced at $5000. It's equivalent to Yamaha's cheapest Clavinova (around $2000) dressed up in a mini-grand cabinet. Would you pay $3000 extra for that cabinet?

Note that even for this piano, $5000 is beyond reason. You could offer the dealer less, perhaps $3000. (Remember, the high-priced pianos are not sold at a "fixed price". You have to make your own deal.)
Quote:
I have been told that there is no way mini digital grand piano can give you the feel of a grand piano but they do sound like grand piano.
The CLP465 will give you neither the feel nor the sound of a grand piano.

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#1880699 - 04/16/12 05:29 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: BrokenChord]
SherazPianoGuy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 48
Loc: Nj, MiddleSex, NorthBrunswick
Yes I'm a beginner. I'm considering digital because they are cheaper than Acoustic. I could also go with Up-right but my wife likes the grand look (welcome to married life).

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#1880703 - 04/16/12 05:32 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: MacMacMac]
SherazPianoGuy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 48
Loc: Nj, MiddleSex, NorthBrunswick
Mac,
I was aware of the fact that CLP465 or any other digital piano won't give the same feeling but I was under impression that they would sound the same (more or less).
Can you please explain how CLP465 is same as cheapest Clavino? Did you compare the specs?
Since you said CLP is not going to sound like grand, which one do you think is best within $5,000 range?
Thanks

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#1880707 - 04/16/12 05:37 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2434
Loc: UK
Kawai CS9, Roland LX15, Yamaha CLP80 are all aesthetically pleasing. Aso excellent pianos. Uprights! I think they look better than those attempts to recreate a grand piano look in a mini style, and would consider them. But I'm not married to your wife.

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#1880711 - 04/16/12 05:42 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Kawai CS9. Or you might get close(ish) to a Yamaha AvantGrand N1 at the top of your budget. The three pianos you mention will be very mediocre - almost insulting given their high price.

Your wife might prefer the "grand" look but show her something in polished ebony (like the two above) and I'm sure she'll warm to them - both look very classy.

Good luck,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1880713 - 04/16/12 05:43 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9558
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Unfortunately the Kawai CS9 is not available in the US.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1880716 - 04/16/12 05:48 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: Kawai James]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Unfortunately the Kawai CS9 is not available in the US.


Tut. What's the one below it James? Or there's CA-93 (although that is satin black).
_________________________
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#1880717 - 04/16/12 05:48 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: Kawai James]
SherazPianoGuy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 48
Loc: Nj, MiddleSex, NorthBrunswick
Yep. I just checked the site. CS9 is not available here.

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#1880724 - 04/16/12 05:55 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
CarloPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 170
CLP-465 is, AFAIK, the same piano as CLP-440. It has the new RGE sound engine which is Yamaha's equivalent to Roland's SuperNatural and it's, in my opinion, very good (in the digital cathegory). But their weakest point is the action: both 465 and 440 have GH3, a ten years old digital piano action that is, in my opinion, not bad but unrealistic and difficult to control.

If you like the furniture (I also think it's a good looking one), I think that the 465 is not a bad option within your budget but I'd have in account that the action of the 465 is not as good as that on the cheaper CLP-470 (but this one without the grand furniture).

I like much more Roland RG-1F because I like a lot more the action but its more expensive. I never tried both Omega and Samick.

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#1880725 - 04/16/12 05:55 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9558
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Yes, CA93 is the top-of-the range soundboard model, the CS6 is the top of the range ebony polish model. I honestly don't know why Kawai America decided not combine both popular characteristics and market the CS9.

Kind regards,
James
x


Edited by Kawai James (04/16/12 07:30 PM)
Edit Reason: Brain was half-asleep.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1880732 - 04/16/12 06:05 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: Kawai James]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3100
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I honestly don't know what Kawai America decides not to market the combine both characteristics and market the CS9.

Too much nihonshu last night, James?

I think I know what you mean. wink
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1880739 - 04/16/12 06:13 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
Tell your wife the grand piano option is the Yamaha N3. If you can afford it, splurge and enjoy the best digital pianos have to offer. smile


Edited by gvfarns (04/16/12 06:37 PM)

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#1880771 - 04/16/12 07:29 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9558
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I honestly don't know what Kawai America decides not to market the combine both characteristics and market the CS9.

Too much nihonshu last night, James?

I think I know what you mean. wink

Oh dear.
That'll teach me not to post on the forum until I've had my morning cuppa. wink

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1880782 - 04/16/12 07:53 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3866
Loc: North Carolina
The only way to know is to try one yourself. Don't buy until you try.
Originally Posted By: Sheraz Khan
I was under impression that they would sound the same (more or less).

Someone else pointed out that the CLP465 is not equivalent to the low-end Clav. It's actually equivalent to the CLP440, a step up from the bottom.

But the CLP440 can be had for $2500. So, to correct my earlier question ... Would you pay $2500 more for mini-grand cabinet? (Instead of $3000 more, as I implied earlier.)

If you really want a piano that sounds "close" to a grand, try the Yamaha Avant Grands. They start at around $8000.

If that's too much, try the Kawai CA63 or CA93, both well under your $5000 limit. In that price range, nothing from Yamaha or Roland can compare.

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#1880835 - 04/16/12 10:16 PM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
Macy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 617
Originally Posted By: Sheraz Khan
Yes I'm a beginner. I'm considering digital because they are cheaper than Acoustic. I could also go with Up-right but my wife likes the grand look (welcome to married life).

My wife also talked me into a Yamaha "mini-grand" for my digital piano because she liked the way it looked in our living room. I'm glad she did. I have to admit, I like the way it looks too now. So listen to your wife. They have a good sense of things like that. Besides, it's much cheaper to replace a piano than a wife.

The top of the line Yamaha "mini-grands" sound "pretty good" and their keyboard feel isn't bad at all. The N1/2/3 have better keyboard actions for sure, but their sound isn't that much better than the top of the line CLP/CVPs mini-grands (and there are issues with the N-series when using their speakers with software pianos, which would mean more to me than the differences in their built-in samples). As a beginner the difference in those keyboards won't matter much unless you have fairly high aspirations for developing your playing ability (and in that case you may eventually want an acoustic piano anyway). I'm not sure how much the keyboards vary from the top to the bottom of the CLP mini-grand line.

As far as sound goes, the top-of-the-line mini-grands have better sound than the bottom of the line mini-grands both in sample-set depth and speakers. So you may want to consider that in what you spend. But if you aren't satisfied with the built-in samples you can use software based virtual pianos for better sound.

However, if you don't like the speaker/amplifier systems in the mini-grand (which should be better than the consoles, because of the speakers and also the orientation of the speaker placement - which is another reason to get a mini-grand) then it becomes more difficult and perhaps aesthetically displeasing to your wife to add external speakers, etc. So that could be a reason to buy a more expensive mini-grand rather than a less expensive mini-grand. In my personal case, I knew before buying that I would never be happy with the built-in samples and would use the piano as a MIDI keyboard for software pianos, but I picked a model that did have pretty good speaker/amplifier system to avoid adding separate speakers.





Edited by Macy (04/17/12 02:01 AM)
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#1880890 - 04/17/12 01:14 AM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: Macy]
piano_shark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 201
Originally Posted By: Macy
So listen to your wife. They have a good sense of things like that. Besides, it's much cheaper to replace a piano than a wife.


so now they are to to tell us what we are supposed to play on too? mad

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#1880912 - 04/17/12 02:53 AM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Sheraz Khan
I am planning to buy a mini digital grand piano. It has to be a mini digital grand piano (not an up right or a simple keyboard). My budget goes from 3k to 5k. So far I have these three in the list (based on the recommendation of an expert)

Yamaha CLP465GP (Price: 5,000)
Samick SG-310 (Price: 3,000)
Omega LX802 (Price: 4,500)

How the instrument sounds matters the most to me. I have been told that there is no way mini digital grand piano can give you the feel of a grand piano but they do sound like grand piano. I have never played grand piano and am a beginner. Should it matter too much to me if I get the same feeling as of grand piano (I don't even know how it feels for now)????
I will try out Yamaha in my local area but I haven't found anyone who has Samick or Omega in Nj or Pa. Therefore, it'd be great if I can get some input here.
The reason Yamaha and Omega are more expensive is because they have 128 polyphone (can someone explain what this means) and Samick has 64. On the other hand, Samick has 6 speakers with 120 watts while yamaha and Omega has 4 speakers with 80 wattss.
Does having more speakers and watts produce better sound???

Thanks



Out of those three only the Yamaha should be seriously considered as the others are noname brand stuff.
That said the Yamaha isn't exactly a good DP .... far better DP's can be had for 1/3 the price.
But you want a mini grand so your going to pay triple the price to get half the board.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1880916 - 04/17/12 03:09 AM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
piano_shark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 201
Sheraz Khan, you can buy a real acoustic new grand for around 6k$ in NJ...

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#1880928 - 04/17/12 03:47 AM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
LMKawai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 180
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Hi Sheraz! I am sure the looks of the Kawai CS6 will impress your wife smile
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#1880947 - 04/17/12 04:42 AM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: Macy]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2434
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Macy

My wife also talked me into a Yamaha "mini-grand" for my digital piano because she liked the way it looked in our living room. I'm glad she did. I have to admit, I like the way it looks too now. So listen to your wife. They have a good sense of things like that.


No. You've been suckered. These mini grands look pathetic. OK IMHO. I'm guessing your wife doesn't play? What's that got to do with it? Everything.
grin
But actually, I'm a bit serious here. The better high end upright DP's look more realistic and appealing than the mini grand DP's, which look like they've had surgery. OK IMHO again.

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#1880954 - 04/17/12 05:40 AM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: spanishbuddha]
piano_shark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 201
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha

But actually, I'm a bit serious here. The better high end upright DP's look more realistic and appealing than the mini grand DP's, which look like they've had surgery. OK IMHO again.


actually avantgrand N3 looks pretty good like a regular baby grand but other dgp I agree look bad.

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#1880956 - 04/17/12 05:51 AM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I've thought of buying one of the Roland digital mini grands to move into a restaurant.



http://www.rolandus.com/products/productlist.php?ParentId=21
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1880957 - 04/17/12 06:02 AM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
motifmm6 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/12
Posts: 98
The brochures say CLP465GP is actually the CLP430 in grand cabinet. It is not the 440. 440 has several aspects upgraded. String resonance, ivory keytops, etc.

Being in mini grand cabinet, the speakers are bigger of course.

Also, the 430, although at entry level, has decent sounds.

It has the new RGE tone generator. Not sure, whether this is the same old AWM2, with a re-name, though.

Like some have suggested, if you really need good sounds, maybe you can hook up to a virtual piano using a laptop.


Edited by motifmm6 (04/17/12 06:02 AM)

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#1880961 - 04/17/12 06:41 AM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: Dave Horne]
piano_shark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 201
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
I've thought of buying one of the Roland digital mini grands to move into a restaurant.
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productlist.php?ParentId=21


are you moving to restaurant?

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#1881027 - 04/17/12 09:29 AM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: piano_shark]
SherazPianoGuy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 48
Loc: Nj, MiddleSex, NorthBrunswick
So I paid a visit to a local store to try Yamaha CLP465GP. I also tried N3. Definitely N3 looks more like a grand piano and has great key action and also sounds amazing. CLP465GP didn't have that bad of key action and sounded ok. I also discussed about the differences of CLP465GP and other CLP models that are not mini grand. The sales person was very honest about it and told me that I'm paying good money for the look. The amps are a little stronger then previous versions but not a huge difference and key action was the same. He eventually gave me a deal on CLP465GP for 3,800 including shipping and then said that he will see if he can drop a couple of hundreds as well. N3 and also N2 had really good key action and also sound but they are out of my price range.
Piano_Shark: you are right. I can get a mini grand piano for around 6k. The good part about mini grand piano is that it comes with other built in sounds as well. I'm not crazy about 200 different instrument sounds but I was impressed with CLP465GP 4 different options of Grand Piano. I'm not that much bothered with the fact that I'd need to get mini grand piano tuned every year for $100 but the question would be how good is it?

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#1881029 - 04/17/12 09:37 AM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
If you're going to pay $6,000 you might as well buy the N1.
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1881031 - 04/17/12 09:39 AM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: Dave Horne]
SherazPianoGuy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 48
Loc: Nj, MiddleSex, NorthBrunswick
haha soooo many options. I couldn't try N1 but after playing N2 and N3, I'm sure it won't disappoint me.


Edited by Sheraz Khan (04/17/12 09:43 AM)

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#1881032 - 04/17/12 09:43 AM Re: Mini digital grand piano [Re: SherazPianoGuy]
SherazPianoGuy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 48
Loc: Nj, MiddleSex, NorthBrunswick
I'm glad that I started this topic. This is a very interesting topic. Mini Digital Grand Piano for around (3k - 15k) or Acoustic piano within the same budget (Well in Acoustic case 6K is the starting point).
There aren't too many threads on this topic and I think it's a critical decision to make considering how many choices are available.

Would one rather spend 6-8k to buy a mini grand piano or a digital mini grand piano? I'm sure most of people who want to buy would want to know all this.

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