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#1884588 - 04/22/12 09:12 PM How many times have you......
newinstru? Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 113
Loc: SoCal
visited the same store, looking for the perfect piano? I'm sorry for my silly question, but I'm starting to get embarrassed by going into the same stores, spending lots of time, having them explain things to me, me being interested in one or a few but unable to come to a decision, and then coming back some time later. I'd feel more bold if some of you have done this a lot too. Thanks.


Edited by newinstru? (04/22/12 09:13 PM)

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#1884598 - 04/22/12 09:23 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1474
Loc: Danville, California
Not many.

Maybe 100-200 times, that's all.

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#1884646 - 04/22/12 10:16 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
notbach Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 155
Loc: Texas
I went back to play my recently-acquired piano several times before I committed. The dealer would greet me each time and then leave me alone to play and evaluate. A good dealer will welcome repeat visits without applying any pressure even (especially?) if you're 'just browsing'.
_________________________
Actively working on:
Bach - Two-part Invention No. 14
Chopin - Prelude in E minor - Op. 28, No. 4
Notenbuch für Nannerl - Tempo di menuetto in F (Anonymous)

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#1884657 - 04/22/12 10:26 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8073
Loc: Georgia, USA
As many times as you like... an acoustic piano is a major purchase and not something to be rushed or hurried. It’s better to feel comfortable on the pre-sale side as well as the post-sale side. Buyer’s remorse is not fun.

Good luck with your purchase!

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1884684 - 04/22/12 11:10 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: Rickster]
newinstru? Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 113
Loc: SoCal
Thanks....I feel better. smile

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#1884878 - 04/23/12 09:23 AM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2629
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
Originally Posted By: newinstru?
Thanks....I feel better. smile

Where you seem to be going wrong is in not sharing your process with us. So what are you looking for and what have you looked at? Do tell... inquiring minds want to know.

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#1884963 - 04/23/12 11:37 AM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
Rotom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 1670
About five different stores, thirty+ pianos. Take your time, there's no need to worry!! smile

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#1884994 - 04/23/12 12:40 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
Gatsbee13 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 462
Loc: So Cal
i live in southern california and have been to many of the local and not so local places multiple times.. but i ended up getting a piano from craigslist smile

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#1885026 - 04/23/12 01:22 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: Gatsbee13]
newinstru? Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 113
Loc: SoCal
Where in So Cal are you.....and what stores did you like? (also looking on Craigslist)


Edited by newinstru? (04/23/12 01:23 PM)

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#1885042 - 04/23/12 01:38 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
Gatsbee13 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 462
Loc: So Cal
im in ventura county (east side).. i liked John Waltrip's in Arcadia (when it was open).. they carried C. bechstein and yamaha mainly (and various other brands). when i first played the c. bechstein, it was a heavenly sound. the uprights had a very nice sound and the concert grand was amazing. i believe they also had W. Hoffman pianos there too.. too bad they closed

if your looking for a place to go, just message me and ill let you know. but to answer your question, ive been to all the stores within a 60 mile radius. although id like to try to visit David Anderson's pianos (its not a store) and try out a Steingraeber


Edited by Gatsbee13 (04/23/12 01:41 PM)

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#1885114 - 04/23/12 04:14 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: Steve Chandler]
newinstru? Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 113
Loc: SoCal
I have a 110 year old Henry Miller upright. My technician would occasionally, gently suggest I look for a new piano. I know he is hearing things that I am not, but I actually was pretty happy with my piano....so many old pianos sound just terrible, and, well, really old, and mine just does not. I love the bass, and Chopin sounds pretty sweet on it. I've had it for 35 years. What prompted my looking was him telling me that the touch prohibits softer dynamics, and subtlety (he is so right, and I hadn't thought about that); and the fact that my kids are playing quite a bit now, have a seven year old starting, and I would like them to play on something better. I didn't know where to start, so he suggested I just go to some piano stores and see what I liked. That's when things got complicated!

I went to a couple of stores, tried a Bosendorfer for fun, came back to earth, and tried several more, and came home. I found that my price range was quite prohibitive, which is what I kind of feared at the outset, and one of the reasons I didn't actively look at first. Everything in my 5K budget sounded too small. A few months later I went back to the same stores, and had the owner of one play several for me so I could hear them better, after which he told me I like a sweet sound. Hearing me play he suggested that for a few thousand more a grand might not be a bad idea due to the fact that the different design made faster pieces sound better and repetitive notes easier.

I went back again later, (both stores are close together so I always went to the same two). I reminded the owner who I was, and that he had told me I like a sweet sound, and asked him what he would recommend. I told him out of curiosity that I would like to look for pianos between 5 and 10K. He led me to a 5 foot (I think) Albert Weber satin black baby grand, for 10K. I really liked the sound. And I liked the satin black which seems to be scarce now. I looked at a few more, but didn't find anything I really cared for. I went next to the other piano store, and the guy there said anything that came from where Young Chang pianos came from (Korea?), and pianos from China for that matter, are disappointing to owners after a few years. Despite the fact that he was unfamiliar with Albert Weber, it gave me pause. I might mention that my technician also likes Yamaha, and Kawai, and is distrustful of many other "unproven" Asian pianos.

Then I discovered Piano World, and things got even more complicated!

Now, in all of my looking I found out that I'm not crazy about Yamaha (not sure what's wrong with my ears, I like my ancient piano, and not Yamaha!), but liked Petrof and the Albert Weber, and some others I couldn't afford. My problem seems to be that I love and am used to a big, rich bass, and can't seem to get one. That's what I liked about Petrof....it sounded bigger than it is.

In the meantime, my budget has gone up to 10K, I've spent too much time on Craigslist, and too much time on piano world smile After finding out that AW is not a bad piano, I went back to see what I liked about it. It had a SOLD sign on it, and it was locked. frown And apparently the price on one has gone up?? On the same day, I found I wasn't crazy about the Petrof upright, liked a Kawai upright (that surprised me), found a used Kawai grand, that I liked, a completely rebuilt Mason and Hamlin that I liked, but not sure if the touch is what we needed.

I finally took my daughter with me to the stores so I could really hear the difference between what we had at home and what we were looking at. I liked a Brodmann (5'6" I think), but didn't know much about it. We really liked it until she hit a really deep chord in the bass, and the sound that came back surprised us both. I don't know how to describe it other that saying I just thought ......ooooh....big metal string sound. Then I went around to all of them in the store to compare. It was there on some, not so much on others. A kind of a buzz maybe??? Forgive me for stating the obvious, I know that a hammer is hitting a metal string.....but I don't want to think that when I am listening to music......Does that make sense?

Sorry.....I'm almost done.....we recently went to a competition at a University....I tried all the Steinways in the music rooms, and there was the same sound....perhaps not as pronounced....went home, opened the top of our piano, and behold, same sound. So I guess it is a thing with open grands?

Anyway, that's where I am now.....thinking about checking out a 2001 Estonia an hour away from Craigslist............Brodman? ........?????

Sorry for the long, rambling post.

Melly

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#1885125 - 04/23/12 04:32 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3246
newinstru
Visiting the same stores again and again? Why? I visited all stores only 1 time and made recordings of all pianos that seemed worth attention. After about 100 recordings from some 10 shops (and trying probably 500 pianos) I found one.

Melly,
keep searching, you will find the one.

Quote:

>We really liked it until she hit a really deep chord in the bass, and the sound that came back surprised us both. I don't know how to describe it other that saying I just thought ......ooooh....big metal string sound.


It's not exactly clear what you are pointing at but it sounds like you hear something you don't really like? Metallic seems to suggest sharp overtones. If the bass strings are good it should not really sound metallic. Try playing a few really big concert grands to see if that sound disappears. Then try a bit smaller to see what the trade-off is between size and metallic-ness. On almost all grands of 2meters and smaller the lowest few notes are usually not so good. The better the grand, the lower the 'acceptable' sounding note.
But make it not too important, check your music to see how much you really need those notes. There are lots of other sound quality factors that probably are much more important, like how the upper bass and treble are sounding and if they connect properly.
_________________________

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#1885140 - 04/23/12 04:45 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: wouter79]
newinstru? Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 113
Loc: SoCal
I wish I knew how to put your individual quotes here and then respond to them, but until then.....

One store I've gone to more often because his stock changes so much, and he has things on consignment I have come to understand, so I end up trying different brands.

The other place is much bigger, also have used, but lots of new. I've not thought of recording....that's a good idea, but it would have to be a really good one or I would not trust what I was hearing.

i guess the reason I keep going back is because this is still so new to me......and I really don't like buyer's remorse.

Regarding the bass string.....I said that wrong. It is not a sharp sound....something I hear in the vibrations.

I think maybe I am being too picky.....

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#1885158 - 04/23/12 05:10 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8073
Loc: Georgia, USA
I'm thinking the bass note metalic overtones Melly is hearing are slightly out of tune bi-chord notes. How does the single bass notes sound compared to the double string bass notes?

It is amazing how many "funky" overtones a good tuning can cure. smile

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1885178 - 04/23/12 05:47 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13974
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
It's completely normal to be overwhelmed when shopping for a piano.

We get people who press only a few keys, some play a bit and some play very well.

We try to develop a certain road map allowing shoopers to do a more coordinated search:

1] find out within what realistic price range you're hoping to get your dream piano in

2] identify some of the "sound families" you like: brighter, warmer sounding pianos more transparent sounding pianos [mostly European or European designed..]- if in doubt, play close attention to treble notes and balance across the entire keyboard.

3] Play yourself or have someone demonstrate the sound across ENTIRE range - not just one part of it - a common error...

When something strikes you as unusual or unpleasant, ask the sales staff about it - there may be a very simple explanation. [ piano not tuned or prepped yet, etc]

In fact, proper and upfront communication with sales staff
is IMHO as important as choosing piano itself - what transpires on sales floor serves as an indication of what will follow most likely later when already owning piano.

If in doubt, always listen to piano itself - they generally "speak the truth" - either about itself or business selling it!

Good luck!

Norbert smile


Edited by Norbert (04/23/12 05:49 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1885240 - 04/23/12 07:20 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
Briguy65 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 284
Loc: So California
I heard people go to Norbert's store multiple times because he always serves delicious danishes and coffee!

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#1885249 - 04/23/12 07:25 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8073
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Briguy65
I heard people go to Norbert's store multiple times because he always serves delicious danishes and coffee!

That would definitely keep me coming back... the coffee, danishes and being allowed to play some hard driving boogie-woogie on the high-end pianos... laugh

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1885253 - 04/23/12 07:32 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
Mozartscat Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/15/12
Posts: 14
If you are considering a vertical piano, might I suggest checking out a Charles Walter console? This should be in your price range.

In my early career I taught piano in people's homes and had the experience of playing many different pianos. When I had the funds to buy a piano for my own studio, I chose a Charles Walter console. That was 15 years ago and my students and I have been very happy. I've not had one problem with it in all the years I've owned it. Everyone who has played it loves it and my piano technician finds it very easy to maintain.

It has a huge sound, better than many grands that I have tried. The action tends to be very even and will definitely give you wonderful dynamic control. I think the tone is warm, yet balanced. It has a very satisfying bass for a vertical. Personally I believe the sound is suited to many different styles of music, too.

Good luck in your search!

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#1885277 - 04/23/12 08:18 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
newinstru? Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 113
Loc: SoCal
Thank you all for your supportive and helpful comments. I will take as many suggestions as I can get.

Mozartscat,

I have not tried a Charles Walter of any size, but what you suggest sounds just like what I am looking for. I've been thinking I need to try some stores a little further away, although not as far as Canada (rats....no coffee and danish....and wonderful service as I have recently read). I will definitely check out the Charles Walter. Do you know what size I could get within my 10K price range?

Norbert.....if you are still reading......or anyone who knows what Norbert is talking about......what exactly would I be looking for in the treble keys as he suggested, and what is meant by "balance across the entire keyboard?"

By the way, I have found listening to the entire range of the keyboard, as I often will like the treble but not the bass, or the other way around.


Edited by newinstru? (04/23/12 08:20 PM)

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#1885280 - 04/23/12 08:24 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8073
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:
Norbert.....if you are still reading......or anyone who knows what Norbert is talking about......what exactly would I be looking for in the treble keys as he suggested, and what is meant by "balance across the entire keyboard?"

Can't read Norbert’s' mind, but I think he is referring to an evenness or consistency in voicing across the entire keyboard... no notes notably brighter, mellower, louder or softer than its neighbors; a smooth balance, if you will.

Of course, I'm just speculating.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1885284 - 04/23/12 08:28 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 13974
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
By the way, I have found listening to the entire range of the keyboard, as I often will like the treble but not the bass, or the other way around.




You will have to like "both" at the 10 k mark.

And the tonality has to be 'in balance' like the sound a smooth harp.

If in doubt, play a little harder in the treble and see if sound becomes suddenly harsh.

Thenm do same in the other registers.

Showing this to all my customers - pianos perform very different when "put to the test"...

i.e. forget 'test-driving' the car at only 30 miles around the corner...

Norbert wink


Edited by Norbert (04/23/12 08:29 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1885308 - 04/23/12 09:15 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
newinstru? Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 113
Loc: SoCal
I appreciate the clarification. Thanks.

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#1885318 - 04/23/12 09:38 PM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
thetandyman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 433
Loc: Indiana
I had no plans to even buy a piano, but I went to an auction and found a great deal. I had only about 30 seconds to play it, and then spent some time underneath the piano. I bought it hoping that it was what I expected. It turned out that my Tech told me I bought a unit that was worth far more than I payed. regardless, I have had it tuned and cleaned, and it pleases me no end. That's what's important.
Every pianist regardless of their ability should buy a piano that pleases THEM. Some like bright, some subdued, there are no standards as I understand. Keep in mind, a good technician can voice your piano to your liking. The principal idea is the fact that the piano is not to far out of tune when you buy it. You can't tell if it can be tuned. A piano that can't be tuned is worthless to most. The cost to restore it can be prohibitive.
_________________________
Marriage is like a card game, you start with two hearts and a diamond, later you wish you had a club and a spade!
Yamaha G7 Yamaha CVP75 digital, Allen 3500 theater organ

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#1886030 - 04/25/12 01:07 AM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
thetandyman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 433
Loc: Indiana
I had a chance to buy a Baldwin grand in the six foot range about a year ago, from the estate sale of a well-known local keyboard teacher. The piano was un-playable in it's livingroom environment. It hadn't been tuned in over a dozen years. I was not interested in the unit, but my business partner wanted it for his magnificent home. I walked away at the $300 price. I just recently found out that my Tech is now caring for it. He told me that it was useless without a complete rebuild. I told my partner that it was worth nothing, even though he wanted it for appearances only. I am currently looking for a grand that is passibly playable since he has three small children. There is no point in buying a six foot picture holder. I find the best bargains are those pianos that play decently, and are far too large for most homes. Has anyone else had these experiences? Do you know any Steinway B's or D's for less than $2000? HAH! LOL!


Edited by thetandyman (04/25/12 01:14 AM)
_________________________
Marriage is like a card game, you start with two hearts and a diamond, later you wish you had a club and a spade!
Yamaha G7 Yamaha CVP75 digital, Allen 3500 theater organ

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#1886044 - 04/25/12 01:33 AM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
Greg88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 85
Loc: Ludlow, Kentucky
In my case it only took the one visit to the store to know the piano I wanted and it was purchased on the first trip. I DID go back several times and play it before the delivery day though. I've never regreted my love at first sight reaction and I still love it today. Don't feel funny about making lots of return trips to the same store to look for your ideal piano. The search will be worth it. Best of luck and all good wishes to you!
_________________________
Schumann Grand by Samick (1990)
Howard Grand by Baldwin (1941)
Yamaha Clavanova Digital

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#1886053 - 04/25/12 02:02 AM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
newinstru? Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/12
Posts: 113
Loc: SoCal
I love all your personal stories!

Greg, I wish mine was more like yours.....hoping that love at first sight thing will happen soon. Which piano was it??

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#1886195 - 04/25/12 09:27 AM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: newinstru?]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2205
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Some people marry their high school sweetheart, some people date many people before finding the right one. Some people experience love at first sight and others take a while to figure it out.

For every little skunk, there's a skunk.

Maybe after eHarmony gets all the humans matched up, they'll start a service for piano shoppers.
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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#1886222 - 04/25/12 10:20 AM Re: How many times have you...... [Re: malkin]
Greg88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 85
Loc: Ludlow, Kentucky
I love all your personal stories!

Greg, I wish mine was more like yours.....hoping that love at first sight thing will happen soon. Which piano was it??

[quote][/quote]

Don't do what I did. I got lucky. I walked in the piano store (with the intention of buying a used console because I had just spent all my money buying a new house) saw the shiny red mahogany Schumann grand piano on the dealer floor and new immediately it was the one I wanted based entirely on FURNITURE appeal cause it was gonna look great in my new house. Prettiest piano I ever saw (at that time). I played it and thought it sounded fine. My Dad was with me, knew I was in love with it and bought it for me that same day. I was lucky because it has never given me a single bit of serious mechanical trouble over more than 20 years. It has a pleasent but unremarkable tone and short bass strings that produce the "tubby" sound of small grands. I'm happy to live with the sound deficiency because of the physlical beauty of the piano. It is not the way a responsible person should choose a piano. I'm so glad I did it though!
_________________________
Schumann Grand by Samick (1990)
Howard Grand by Baldwin (1941)
Yamaha Clavanova Digital

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