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What I don't get about this is that a real piano will show similar signs of wear after time and the RD700NX at least that I can see doesn't seem to my eyes to be significantly worse then the previous RD700GX and neither caused any issues in playability.

I do not recall seeing any reports of this happening from other Roland owner's. I wonder if you're not being just a little melodramatic?

As a V-Piano owner, I see just one probable cause for scratched keys:


The Hands

Well, perhaps this hasn't happened as of yet, but I do want Roland to ponder over the five questions I just sent them (via e-mail "Support" on their website), since it might just open their half-shut sleepy eyes just a little:

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Product: V-Piano

Subject: Particle debris from keys / Five (5) questions

Question(s):

1) How do you prevent the plastic debris (of tiny particles) from the "Ivory Feel" keys from screwing up the sensors/action underneath, due to fingernail scratching?
2) Does vacuuming the keys now become a mandatory procedure?
3) Is 3-5 months normal wear time expectancy for these keys?
4) How many key bed changes are allowed under warranty?
5) After warranty runs out, what do you provide?

Answers:

1) Not possible
2) Yes
3) Maybe, I dunno...
4) Can't count that high
5) Nada

Response: Pending

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Roland will probably think that I am either a nut, or joking, however, I am serious with getting them to look at the issues.

My keys on my RD-700GXF wore just like the pictures above. And to be honest, I liked the rougher feel. I wish I could put the ivory feel keys in my Nord.

I'm not trivialising Richard's disappointment at all, because he saved for a long time and spent a lot of money and to be fair, if three other major brands, Kawai, Yamaha, and Casio can put out Ivory feel keys and not have issues with scratching and deteriorating coatings, I'm not sure what Roland's problem is. They've been dealing with this for 4 years ever since they launched the RD-700GX with the first ivory feel keys.

Well, I have a real grand a few meters away from my RD700NX here also. The keys are real ivory and are likely around 80 years old. They show no sign of comparable wear, and -- due to the fact that they are ivory -- are very easy to polish to the degree you'd like, thus maintaining them in a good condition.

As for the scratches you've seen on the images above, then it did impact the playability for me, as these rough spots on some of the keys felt like I had "gunk" on my fingers (which I'm quite sensitive of when playing) -- depending on which key I played in :-) And yes, this happened also when playing somewhere "for real", not only when sitting at home.

The new keys feel very different and show no sign of wear. I think they are similar or identical to the FP7F keys that are currently being manufactured, from what I've seen.

My own theory is that there may have been several generations of key formulation over time, but I don't know for sure, obviously.


-- Per.

I don't think the sensors will be impacted by the white dust that rips of; as far as I know they are pretty well sealed.

A small amount of white dust is there, of course, and can be seen on the keys after playing. I've never personally noticed "white fingers" after playing although others might have?


-- Per.

You're not the only one saying so! I've heard that from others too. The original ivory feel keys are really great playing on (disregarding the wear for a minute).

I also spent some time thinking whether I should just live with it or not, but in the end I preferred a "cleaner" feeling keyboard even if it felt a bit more like normal plastic keys.


-- Per.

Well, there is probably some truth in that, but it is not the only part of the equation:

Old Keys := The keybed my RD700NX came with
New Keys := The keybed that has now replaced the Old Keys

Old Keys + My Hands + 2 months => Noticeable wear

Old Keys + Someone Else's Hands + 2 hours => Significantly increased wear

New Keys + My Hands + 2 months => Absolutely NO signs of any wear

Old Keys + Unknown Hands + N months => Sometimes no wear, sometimes wear


If needed, I could upload a picture of my hands for reference (just joking)... They are in clean condition, with very short nails (otherwise they get in the way of my fretless bass playing).


So if anywhere, the old YMMV certainly seems to imply here :-)


My old and new keys are indeed very different, and I was alerted to this fact before I got them replaced, so that I would know they feel different and more closed. Some like the old keys better (I actually did). If they had not been showing significant wear, I would have kept them, so I understand why someone that has softer hands and no wear may want to keep them :-)


-- Per.

Update:

It has been suggested to me that I now try to reach Roland HQ (at the corporate level) to see if I can't get something done for getting a new set of keys that actually do have the resilient key tops, and, not just guess work.

If the next key bed doesn't have resilient non-scratch keys then I am just wasting my time with getting the key bed swapped out, again.

The new keys I had been given now (after a long 8 week wait) are going to eventually show wear, just like the original ones.

Is there someone at Roland that can confirm resilient non-scratch key tops in advance, before the key bed ships out?

Otherwise, there is no reason to send it!

Have you spoken, not email, to a manager at Roland customer support?

Yes, I have already tried talking with several people now at Roland customer support, and, they are saying to ask my local shop to reorder another key bed since the shop does the work.

Why keep reordering key beds since they are not scratch resistant?

Extra note:

Here is my latest correspondence with Roland Corporation representative, Roger Halvorson, and, he tells me this:

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Hi Richard,

As you can imagine, Roland has sold a lot of pianos with the ivory feel finish in the last several years and our service department tells us there is a very small percentage of service requests or repairs for these keyboards. We have tried to be as straighfoward with you as we can and have shipped the latest keyboard we could get from Japan for your piano. It may be that there will be a different model or update of this keyboard in the future, but for now, this is all we have available.

Regarding the pictures, we can't comment on them since we don't really know how this particular instrument has been played or what has been done. We do have several keyboards open and in use here at our offices in Los Angeles, and have not seem this type of scoring. At this point, we would just ask that you try playing the piano for a while and make your own conclusions on how it is wearing as you go. If you have any problems, we will do our best to take care of you.

Best Regards,

Roger Halvorson
Roland Corp. U.S.
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Please note where he mentions "this is all we have available" meaning that the key bed sent from Japan is their most current stuff, although it appears that it is still going to show wear just as the original key bed did.

I am now asking Mr. Halvorson to get in touch with our bennevis here, to confirm his success with the Roland (UK) keys, and, to see if he can't get the same all "white key replacements" from Roland (UK), as it appears that Roland (US) does not have any to offer, according to Mr. Halvorson.

1) Why should Roland (UK) key beds be any different from Roland (US)?

2) Roland (US) doesn't have the same "white key replacements?"

Important update:

I have to believe that the above statement is the key to fixing V-Piano's with key wear, since bennevis' white keys replacement has apparently done the job.

The only question that remains for Roland (US), is:

What white keys (exactly) were used in bennevis' service repair in the UK, and, can this be accomplished, here?

I am currently waiting on a reply from Roland to see if this is an option, as it may be a viable solution.

The current full (88-note) key bed I received from Japan is not resilient to wear, as such.

Maybe Bennevis could do you a favour and make some enquiries with his repairer or at least put you in touch with them. It's got to be possible if it's been done once.

i don't get it.... i 've had a v-piano for over 2 years and i play it a lot (but not daily) across a variety of styles and key pressures- and i've seen absolutely no wear on the keys at all. could it be because i keep my fingernails very short and play somewhat flathanded with the soft pads of my fingertips (which may be lousy posture or not) as the main striking surface?

Might be Bruce - but I really think Roland's plastic is made in batches - and it's probably out-sourced. That's just my guess anyway. Some wears a lot, some really doesn't wear. There are first generation Ivory Feel keys out there (now five years old) that are still fine. I bet there are people out there who have played a lot on two Ivory Feel pianos and seen wear on one but not another.

I could also be persuaded that there might be an element of chemistry going on between different human beings (the concentrations of substances in the individual's sweat and skin oils perhaps) in conjunction with different batches/formulations of this plastic that have a greater or lesser hardness (for want of a better word).

It might be quite a complex set of circumstances that gives rise to wear or no wear. In any event, it is all entirely unacceptable in my view - if Casio/Yamaha/Kawai can do it right I'm sure Roland should be able to as well.

Keep us informed pv88 as my V-piano still has no signs of keytop wear yet. However I do cut my fingernails short and I wash my hands before playing. Perhaps I am one of the lucky ones and got a good batch of synthetic ivory keytops. The display V-piano at Sam Ashe is simply in terrible shape and has turned a nasty brown color from all the playing. It is super rough and interesting to play as it feels like a 100 year old bar piano with keys that have never been cleaned or they have been cleaned with sandpaper. If I'm the only one playing my V, then I don't see that ever happening.

My FP-7F has the Ivory Feel (I think) and it doesn't scratch at all...:O (I love the key texture by the way)

@Kona_V-Piano,

Sure would like to see some photos of the display V-Piano at your Sam Ash store, if you could somehow snap some pictures of the keys?

I imagine that a small cell phone (with built-in camera) would do the job!

This could be documented here, and, sent to Roland.