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#1888198 - 04/29/12 01:28 AM Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge?
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 247
Loc: Los Angeles
per Hr. I'm too embarrassed to call and ask. It sounds so mercenary; a piano student shouldn't be worried about cost when (s)he is studying with the best.

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#1888202 - 04/29/12 02:11 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
Opus_Maximus Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/04
Posts: 1489
Pollack is $350 an hour. No idea about Perry..

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#1888485 - 04/29/12 05:04 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1349
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Funny, I just saw John Perry yesterday, arriving from the US at a Toronto airport, assumedly for one of his regular teaching gigs at the Royal Conservatory's finishing school. He looked world-weary, or perhaps it was a bumpy flight.

What a bizarre life, teaching here and there constantly in master class format, for young people who are essentially finished pianists already. And doing this across N. America, where classical music means less and less all the time.

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#1888489 - 04/29/12 05:22 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Opus_Maximus]
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 247
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Opus_Maximus
Pollack is $350 an hour. No idea about Perry..


That crash was my glass jaw hitting the ground. I don't think brain surgeons make $350 an hour--for appointments, that is.

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#1888506 - 04/29/12 06:00 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1754
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
Originally Posted By: Opus_Maximus
Pollack is $350 an hour. No idea about Perry..


That crash was my glass jaw hitting the ground. I don't think brain surgeons make $350 an hour--for appointments, that is.


Good music teachers are the most underpaid professionals (those paid by an hourly fee for a set period of time) of any I know. Actuaries, lawyers, accountants, business consultants, etc. all get more.

My theory is that this is because the "going rate" for most teachers is rooted in what parents are prepared to pay for a half-hour or hour of lessons for their kids, and that's not much.

I always insist on paying music teachers at least what I'd pay for an hour of therapy. The music lessons are always more therapeutic!
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#1888508 - 04/29/12 06:03 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19776
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
That crash was my glass jaw hitting the ground. I don't think brain surgeons make $350 an hour--for appointments, that is.

They do, and more.

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#1888517 - 04/29/12 06:29 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Mark_C]
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 247
Loc: Los Angeles
Well, I won't be taking piano lessons from Pollock anytime soon. Not that he'd even consider having me as a student anyway.....!


Edited by Joey Townley (04/29/12 06:30 PM)

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#1888531 - 04/29/12 07:14 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
Opus_Maximus Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/04
Posts: 1489
I'll add that that is, however, about the highest rate I've ever heard for any private teacher. I'm guessing others, even Perry, would be lower, in the 200 or so range.

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#1888567 - 04/29/12 08:59 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Opus_Maximus]
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 247
Loc: Los Angeles
And to think I was going to call and ask Pollock if the first lesson was free!!!!!! sick

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#1888601 - 04/29/12 10:25 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13789
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Piano teaching is an odd economic model. The hourly rate usually looks pretty good. The problem is how many hours one can reasonably work and when those hours are.

$50/hour, which is pretty standard where I live, sounds good. But working a 30 hour week would likely mean working primarily after school (3pm-9pm Monday through Friday.) Scheduling that would be very difficult, and even if you could get 40 weeks per year of solid work, that nets you $60,000 a year.

And $60k a year is great, but consider that when compared to someone who works for some kind of company, you pay an additional 15% self-employment taxes, all of your own retirement and health benefits, and subtract all operating expenses from that.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1888636 - 04/30/12 12:09 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Kreisler]
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 247
Loc: Los Angeles
I'd bet my bottom dollar that most of that income doesn't even get reported because the parents can't deduct piano lessons. So 60k tax-free is the equivalent of over 100k gross.

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#1888641 - 04/30/12 12:17 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
Minniemay Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 1702
Loc: CA
Uh, excuse me, but I report every dollar I earn as a piano teacher and so does every teacher I know. Why would you even think that?
_________________________
B.A., Piano, Piano Pegagogy, Music Ed.
M.M., Piano

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#1888666 - 04/30/12 01:49 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Minniemay]
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 247
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Minniemay
Uh, excuse me, but I report every dollar I earn as a piano teacher and so does every teacher I know. Why would you even think that?


You and your friends are to be commended, Minnie. But if 100% of self-employed people who are in an occupation that doesn't require itemization on their clients' Schedule A and the money is put directly into their hands by their clients....well, let's just say that not everyone is as honest as you and your friends are. It's the reason why the IRS annually reports a tax deficit of anywhere from a quarter to nearly half a TRILLION dollars in unreported and under-reported taxes.

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#1888863 - 04/30/12 01:33 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
I'd bet my bottom dollar that most of that income doesn't even get reported because the parents can't deduct piano lessons. So 60k tax-free is the equivalent of over 100k gross.

Can't speak for other professions, but remember, the IRS can peak at your bank statements, so don't think fudging here is a good idea. Like others, I keep detailed and scrupulously accurate records. The very last thing I want to be doing is sitting in an IRS office being audited.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1888865 - 04/30/12 01:36 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
per Hr. I'm too embarrassed to call and ask. It sounds so mercenary; a piano student shouldn't be worried about cost when (s)he is studying with the best.

There are other fine teachers available, but rates are realistic. My current teacher, N. Jane Tan, charges $180/hr. And it's a 2 hr drive for me, each way. It's worth every penny of it.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1888875 - 04/30/12 01:52 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13789
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I never said $60k tax-free. I mentioned that you have to pay extra self-employment tax out of that, and most teachers I know report every penny.

Do you have other information/experience, or are you just guessing?

Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
I'd bet my bottom dollar that most of that income doesn't even get reported because the parents can't deduct piano lessons. So 60k tax-free is the equivalent of over 100k gross.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1888975 - 04/30/12 05:36 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Kreisler]
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 247
Loc: Los Angeles
I can see I've stepped on a lot of toes with my rash remark and I apologize. I didn't mean to imply that all piano teachers are dishonest. But it would be naive to believe that every piano teacher in America who deals on a cash-basis reports every dollar they earn. That level of honesty just doesn't exist in any profession. But piano teachers would definitely be more honest than the average building contractor because pianists....well, are pianists. But to answer your question, Kreisler, no I don't have any data to support my brash assertion. I was just generalizing. Probably mistakenly. blush


Edited by Joey Townley (04/30/12 05:37 PM)

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#1889073 - 04/30/12 09:13 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: ClsscLib]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19776
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
Good music teachers are the most underpaid professionals (those paid by an hourly fee for a set period of time) of any I know. Actuaries, lawyers, accountants, business consultants, etc. all get more.....

I agree, but I'd say that good people in any of those fields are underpaid -- if they're really good. My profession too. We're overpaid if we're mediocre or bad, but underpaid if we're really good.

I've thought that every piano teacher I've had in the last 30 years has undercharged (and I've told them so!), except for the couple of them that I didn't think were much good (and who I saw just once).

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#1889149 - 05/01/12 12:09 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Char [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1349
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook

My current teacher, N. Jane Tan, charges $180/hr. And it's a 2 hr drive for me, each way. It's worth every penny of it.


John, are your lessons centred on pedagogy? Or on technique? Or on repertoire? IOW, are you studying with Ms. Tan as a piano teacher or as a pianist? Jane Tan was a name we all heard for a number of years, but mostly through her published materials aimed at young pianists.

She has slipped from my radar, but thanks for the memory jog!

Curious in Toronto

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#1889277 - 05/01/12 07:43 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Mark_C]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1754
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
Good music teachers are the most underpaid professionals (those paid by an hourly fee for a set period of time) of any I know. Actuaries, lawyers, accountants, business consultants, etc. all get more.....

I agree, but I'd say that good people in any of those fields are underpaid -- if they're really good. My profession too. We're overpaid if we're mediocre or bad, but underpaid if we're really good.

I've thought that every piano teacher I've had in the last 30 years has undercharged (and I've told them so!), except for the couple of them that I didn't think were much good (and who I saw just once).


Generally I agree; competition does set metes and bounds around what both the good and bad in any field can charge.

Part of being a good consumer is deciding when someone is really good and then making sure that that person realizes in every way how much you appreciate her professional performance. That's why I insist on paying good music teachers more than the rate they quote (and stop using bad ones). I do the same with other professionals.

That has less to do with generosity than with the consumer's self interest, but it's nice that it can be perceived as the former.
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#1889769 - 05/02/12 01:57 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: ClsscLib]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19776
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
....That's why I insist on paying good music teachers more than the rate they quote (and stop using bad ones). I do the same with other professionals....

I think you're unique. smile

I've sometimes wanted to do that, but never have....well actually in some 'special situations' I have, like when I spent 2 days with a former teacher to prepare for recitals and he didn't want to charge anything, and when teachers have given me double lessons but only wanted to charge the regular amount. But aside from those times, I felt it would actually be sort of an insult, in an odd way, to try to pay more -- as though telling them that their own pricing was wrong. And I think it basically would be. The most I've done in such situations was to express my gratitude and let them know (as you said) how much I got from their teaching (or whatever the service was) and express my great gratitude.

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#1889838 - 05/02/12 07:17 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
stevenpn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/11
Posts: 30
Loc: Pasadena, CA
I studied with Daniel Pollack for 10 years at USC where I did my Bachelor's, Master's, and Doctorate with him. I also studied with him privately in his home studio for a few summers. What do you want to know? I'm only $50/lesson, by the way.

He used to give masterclasses every summer where students got about a full hour's lesson (albeit in front of a group), and it was fairly affordable. That might be a good way to go, if he's still doing that. I know he stopped giving that class for a while.

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#1889903 - 05/02/12 10:07 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Char [Re: Peter K. Mose]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook

My current teacher, N. Jane Tan, charges $180/hr. And it's a 2 hr drive for me, each way. It's worth every penny of it.


John, are your lessons centred on pedagogy? Or on technique? Or on repertoire? IOW, are you studying with Ms. Tan as a piano teacher or as a pianist? Jane Tan was a name we all heard for a number of years, but mostly through her published materials aimed at young pianists.

She has slipped from my radar, but thanks for the memory jog!

Curious in Toronto

Primarily pedagogy. You know, she just happened to be in the right place at the right time, and had a chance to study with a number of the great early 20th century masters as well as Fleischer. She has a brilliant mind and memory, and can impart huge numbers of seemingly trivial technique details which all add up to greatly increasing the musical mastery of students. Our work divided into two stages - beginning students, getting them off on the right foot (so to speak) with hand technique, and high school repertoire for both ending students and those choosing to continue at conservatory.

But as they correctly say, you cannot teach effectively what you don't know, so she ends up teaching us as students as well. It is an amazing experience for those of us who participate, but humbling to be taking lessons on seemingly "elementary" material in front of a dozen or more of our peers, all of whom have advanced degrees and are actually accomplished pianists in their own right!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1889994 - 05/02/12 01:18 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Char [Re: Joey Townley]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1349
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
John, in other words these are group teaching situations. Master classes for piano teachers. Are these organized privately in the Seattle area? How often do they take place?

I'm suddenly floored by the math of this. You are paying $180 an hour, along with a dozen or more of your colleagues. That's over two thousand dollars an hour for Ms. Tan. Perhaps John Perry and Daniel Pollock should take lessons in career management from her!

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#1890001 - 05/02/12 01:37 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Mark_C]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1754
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
....That's why I insist on paying good music teachers more than the rate they quote (and stop using bad ones). I do the same with other professionals....

I think you're unique. smile

I've sometimes wanted to do that, but never have....well actually in some 'special situations' I have, like when I spent 2 days with a former teacher to prepare for recitals and he didn't want to charge anything, and when teachers have given me double lessons but only wanted to charge the regular amount. But aside from those times, I felt it would actually be sort of an insult, in an odd way, to try to pay more -- as though telling them that their own pricing was wrong. And I think it basically would be. The most I've done in such situations was to express my gratitude and let them know (as you said) how much I got from their teaching (or whatever the service was) and express my great gratitude.


I'll confess I got pushback for this initially from teachers, but it didn't stop me.

I recognize that I am highly dependent on smart professionals who give me great help, both in my music studies and in my day job. I want help from the best in their fields, giving me THEIR best, perhaps in part because they know I recognize, appreciate, and value their assistance.

I've done a lot of dumb things in life, and a lot that haven't worked, but this attitude and practice -- what some might call "overappreciating" skilled and valued professionals -- has never failed me.
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#1890002 - 05/02/12 01:39 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Char [Re: Peter K. Mose]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19776
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
I'm suddenly floored by the math of this. You are paying $180 an hour, along with a dozen or more of your colleagues. That's over two thousand dollars an hour for Ms. Tan....

I think you got lost in the math. grin

First (and mainly), what's with the multiplication? It seemed that the rate was for a private lesson, not a master class. And also, in master classes you don't usually (if ever) have that many people playing.

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#1890038 - 05/02/12 03:38 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Char [Re: Peter K. Mose]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
John, in other words these are group teaching situations. Master classes for piano teachers. Are these organized privately in the Seattle area? How often do they take place?

I'm suddenly floored by the math of this. You are paying $180 an hour, along with a dozen or more of your colleagues. That's over two thousand dollars an hour for Ms. Tan. Perhaps John Perry and Daniel Pollock should take lessons in career management from her!

No, they are not group lessons. Each one of us gets an hour, and we each pay for an hour. But we sit in on each others' lessons. You can learn a lot about teaching and musicianship this way.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1890057 - 05/02/12 04:22 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Char [Re: Joey Townley]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1349
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
1. So Jane Tan is teaching a dozen or more hours of these piano teacher lessons back to back, John? I don't get it. That sounds as maniacal as John Perry. Do you all go out for meals together, or does Jane spring for a pizza and beer?

2. Are some of the teachers just auditing, and do they pay less?

3. Is this held in a piano teacher's home? An institution? A retail piano dealership?

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#1890066 - 05/02/12 04:42 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Char [Re: Peter K. Mose]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
1. So Jane Tan is teaching a dozen or more hours of these piano teacher lessons back to back, John? I don't get it. That sounds as maniacal as John Perry. Do you all go out for meals together, or does Jane spring for a pizza and beer?

2. Are some of the teachers just auditing, and do they pay less?

3. Is this held in a piano teacher's home? An institution? A retail piano dealership?

Well, it's over 3 days; we have other activities, such as piano teams and student master classes, plus teacher lectures. We normally brown bag lunch and dine somewhere near the Westlake Center. Sherman-Clay (Steinway) provides music teachers in the Puget Sound area wonderful offerings activities such as this, and we get to play on some superb instruments as a result. Auditing is possible, if you've studied with her some time, but I don't think anyone is doing this. For the record, teaching 6 - 8 hrs straight is not a chore for me, and probably not for many teachers. It's what we love doing.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1890069 - 05/02/12 04:57 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: stevenpn]
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 247
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: stevenpn
I studied with Daniel Pollack for 10 years at USC where I did my Bachelor's, Master's, and Doctorate with him. I also studied with him privately in his home studio for a few summers. What do you want to know? I'm only $50/lesson, by the way.

He used to give masterclasses every summer where students got about a full hour's lesson (albeit in front of a group), and it was fairly affordable. That might be a good way to go, if he's still doing that. I know he stopped giving that class for a while.











I think in his interview he said he was ill or something for a long while and out of action. So in your last year of studying with him what was he charging per hour?

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#1890093 - 05/02/12 06:03 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
stevenpn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/11
Posts: 30
Loc: Pasadena, CA
I only took private lessons with him during the summers of my undergrad years ('95-'98), when his official fee was $150. Throughout graduate school, I studied with him only through the school (although lessons were occasionally held in his home studio). I once calculated that it was actually cheaper to take lessons with him through USC than privately, despite the expensive tuition at that school.

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#1890111 - 05/02/12 07:00 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: stevenpn]
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 247
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: stevenpn
I once calculated that it was actually cheaper to take lessons with him through USC than privately, despite the expensive tuition at that school.


Now that I can believe. He's almost a god in the music world, certainly a legend by virtue of his career and having placed in the 1st Tchaikovsky Competition, even if it was 10th place. If he can get $350/hr I imagine Cliburn could command as much as $500, maybe more considering the "shine" it puts on a rising artist's CV to have name like Cliburn as one of your teachers. Wonder if Cliburn does teach.

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#1890125 - 05/02/12 07:25 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
Varcon Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 1931
Loc: Mount Vernon, Georgia 30445
I have a student-psychiatrist--and a fine pianist who took lessons and insisted I should charge more as he considered me a good teacher and worthy of a higher charge. So, he arranged to be the last student of the week and would take me to dinner after the lesson unless he was on duty at the hospital. And later, he called me to his house and his piano had been re-furbished and he wanted me to see it. I walked in his house and a new artist bench was placed at the piano and as I rounded the corner, I saw another one! But no piano! He has bought one for me also as a 'payment' for the services since I wouldn't raise my fees.

I charge what I think the general population would think is fair and equitable. High prices do not necessarily indicate good instruction. But some take lessons--if only a few--with well-known artists/teachers to have it included in their CV/Resume and thus impress the knowledgable and others.

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#1890244 - 05/03/12 12:42 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Char [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19776
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
Well, it's over 3 days...

Yes.

Peter: Where did you get the idea that they were either 'group/master class' or 'back-to-back'?

Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
....If he can get $350/hr I imagine Cliburn could command as much as $500, maybe more considering the "shine" it puts on a rising artist's CV to have name like Cliburn as one of your teachers....

I'm sure he could get more than that, without any extra consideration from that last thing you said. Whether he'd ask for that much is a different story; the main factor would be just if he wants to teach the person. (Provided he teaches, which I don't know that he does.)

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#1890297 - 05/03/12 04:58 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: stevenpn]
Andromaque Offline
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Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: stevenpn
I studied with Daniel Pollack for 10 years at USC where I did my Bachelor's, Master's, and Doctorate with him. I also studied with him privately in his home studio for a few summers. What do you want to know?



what is he like as a teacher? In his interviews, he sounds a bit grumpy or irritable, though clearly passionate about his field. You must have thought you were benefiting greatly if you did all of your undergrad and grad work with him.? Did he perform much? Could you work with him on contemporary pieces? Did you have to audition for his studio specifically?

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#1890393 - 05/03/12 10:40 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
Peter K. Mose Offline
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Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1349
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Mark, I'm always capable of misunderstanding things. But John had mentioned that a dozen teachers may sit in on his individual lesson with Jane Tan, yet each teacher receives his or her own hour lesson with this pedagogue. So I figured that the lessons would be back to back. IOW, I observe your lesson, and then you observe my lesson. That was the way Schnabel taught, for example, as well as some of his prominent successors.

I didn't realize this was a three-day workshop being offered. I thought perhaps Mme Tan retired to Seattle from the East Coast, and that John sees her every week as his regular piano teacher. But looking Jane Tan up on Google, I now see she is presenting these master-teacher gigs here and there around the US, sometimes in partnership with Seymour Bernstein.

Sounds like these events could be very stimulating, although I don't know anything firsthand about her.

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#1890507 - 05/03/12 01:34 PM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Char [Re: Mark_C]
Joey Townley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 247
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
Well, it's over 3 days...

Yes.

Peter: Where did you get the idea that they were either 'group/master class' or 'back-to-back'?

Originally Posted By: Joey Townley
....If he can get $350/hr I imagine Cliburn could command as much as $500, maybe more considering the "shine" it puts on a rising artist's CV to have name like Cliburn as one of your teachers....

I'm sure he could get more than that, without any extra consideration from that last thing you said. Whether he'd ask for that much is a different story; the main factor would be just if he wants to teach the person. (Provided he teaches, which I don't know that he does.)


I don't think he does. I read an interview he gave recently. He holds informal music soirees frequently and probably gives advice here and there. He's well-set financially from what I gathered so money is not an issue. He's real night-owl, often practicing till 4 or 5 in the morning and then sleeping until 2 or 3. Maybe that's what did his career in---not being able to keep a concert schedule in sync with an-out-of-sync sleep cycle.

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#1894655 - 05/10/12 09:01 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Andromaque]
stevenpn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/11
Posts: 30
Loc: Pasadena, CA
I did think I benefited from him a great deal, although students generally stayed with their teacher throughout their studies. Some would shift around from studio to studio, but that wasn't taken very well by the teachers vacated. Pollack seemed disappointed when students would leave for someone else--though that was relatively rare--and I heard the same of other teachers. It was sort of frowned upon by all parties to change teachers, so I never seriously considered it. Had the prospect of changing teachers been more welcome, I might have moved to Stewart Gordon at some point, as he is very reasonable, scientific, extremely knowledgeable, but I was never too keen on anyone else there as my major teacher--certainly not Perry, for reasons I can't post here. I studied with others in piano ensemble, accompanying, Baroque interpretation, etc., however, which gave me some experience with the other studios.

Pollack could be as cantankerous as he seems on the Youtube videos, but that's mostly an act--his outer persona, which involves a very dry, sardonic wit. His teaching was a mixture of musicality and body mechanics. There was always a great deal of emphasis on how to move the hands and arms, finger position (when curved and when flatter), hand position, etc. This was huge for him, as it was for his teacher Rosina Lhevinne. Speaking of her, he would quote her during every lesson multiple times. Sometimes I felt like I was taking from her. I find myself quoting him constantly in my own teaching, a habit I must have picked up from him. Besides body mechanics, he had clear musical values that we would all come to understand after a few semesters or more. Legato was life and death, as was playing melody louder than everything else, and voicing to the top. Seems like basic stuff and it is, but so few people do it. Many folks even with advanced degrees are totally uninterested in voicing, playing all notes of a given chord at about the same volume. For Pollack, that was inexcusable--far more egregious than something like playing wrong notes. I would say that despite the heavy emphasis on technique building that was the ostensible hallmark of his teaching, it was in the area of musicality (such as the sort of aspects mentioned above) that his teaching was most impactful and transformative to me.

His specialty was romantic music, but he loved teaching all types of music. I was always especially interested in contemporary music, which he happily worked on with me. He could always spot little hidden points in the score that I often overlooked.

I never auditioned for him specifically, but he was at my audition for the school itself and must have approved me for his studio. It was magical being his student, and I fully knew that at the time. He had a larger than life personality, and everything he said somehow seemed immensely fascinating. Still, I have to conclude that there are far more economical ways of getting a quality piano education, even of learning exactly what he teaches. You might go to a community college where his former students teach. Then, when you're ready to give a recital and have all your pieces pretty polished already, spring for a private lesson to get his take on the finishing touches.

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#1895608 - 05/12/12 03:51 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: stevenpn]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Steven,
Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply.

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#1895617 - 05/12/12 04:48 AM Re: Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge? [Re: Joey Townley]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1349
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
That's a wonderful glimpse of study with this distinguished teacher. Many thanks.

Any time you wanted to tease us a little more about the studio life of John Perry, we're waiting.

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