Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Does Anyone Know What John Perry and Daniel Pollock Charge?

per Hr. I'm too embarrassed to call and ask. It sounds so mercenary; a piano student shouldn't be worried about cost when (s)he is studying with the best.

Pollack is $350 an hour. No idea about Perry..

Funny, I just saw John Perry yesterday, arriving from the US at a Toronto airport, assumedly for one of his regular teaching gigs at the Royal Conservatory's finishing school. He looked world-weary, or perhaps it was a bumpy flight.

What a bizarre life, teaching here and there constantly in master class format, for young people who are essentially finished pianists already. And doing this across N. America, where classical music means less and less all the time.

That crash was my glass jaw hitting the ground. I don't think brain surgeons make $350 an hour--for appointments, that is.

Good music teachers are the most underpaid professionals (those paid by an hourly fee for a set period of time) of any I know. Actuaries, lawyers, accountants, business consultants, etc. all get more.

My theory is that this is because the "going rate" for most teachers is rooted in what parents are prepared to pay for a half-hour or hour of lessons for their kids, and that's not much.

I always insist on paying music teachers at least what I'd pay for an hour of therapy. The music lessons are always more therapeutic!

They do, and more.

Well, I won't be taking piano lessons from Pollock anytime soon. Not that he'd even consider having me as a student anyway.....!

I'll add that that is, however, about the highest rate I've ever heard for any private teacher. I'm guessing others, even Perry, would be lower, in the 200 or so range.

And to think I was going to call and ask Pollock if the first lesson was free!!!!!!

Piano teaching is an odd economic model. The hourly rate usually looks pretty good. The problem is how many hours one can reasonably work and when those hours are.

$50/hour, which is pretty standard where I live, sounds good. But working a 30 hour week would likely mean working primarily after school (3pm-9pm Monday through Friday.) Scheduling that would be very difficult, and even if you could get 40 weeks per year of solid work, that nets you $60,000 a year.

And $60k a year is great, but consider that when compared to someone who works for some kind of company, you pay an additional 15% self-employment taxes, all of your own retirement and health benefits, and subtract all operating expenses from that.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that most of that income doesn't even get reported because the parents can't deduct piano lessons. So 60k tax-free is the equivalent of over 100k gross.

Uh, excuse me, but I report every dollar I earn as a piano teacher and so does every teacher I know. Why would you even think that?

You and your friends are to be commended, Minnie. But if 100% of self-employed people who are in an occupation that doesn't require itemization on their clients' Schedule A and the money is put directly into their hands by their clients....well, let's just say that not everyone is as honest as you and your friends are. It's the reason why the IRS annually reports a tax deficit of anywhere from a quarter to nearly half a TRILLION dollars in unreported and under-reported taxes.

Can't speak for other professions, but remember, the IRS can peak at your bank statements, so don't think fudging here is a good idea. Like others, I keep detailed and scrupulously accurate records. The very last thing I want to be doing is sitting in an IRS office being audited.

There are other fine teachers available, but rates are realistic. My current teacher, N. Jane Tan, charges $180/hr. And it's a 2 hr drive for me, each way. It's worth every penny of it.

I never said $60k tax-free. I mentioned that you have to pay extra self-employment tax out of that, and most teachers I know report every penny.

Do you have other information/experience, or are you just guessing?

I can see I've stepped on a lot of toes with my rash remark and I apologize. I didn't mean to imply that all piano teachers are dishonest. But it would be naive to believe that every piano teacher in America who deals on a cash-basis reports every dollar they earn. That level of honesty just doesn't exist in any profession. But piano teachers would definitely be more honest than the average building contractor because pianists....well, are pianists. But to answer your question, Kreisler, no I don't have any data to support my brash assertion. I was just generalizing. Probably mistakenly.

I agree, but I'd say that good people in any of those fields are underpaid -- if they're really good. My profession too. We're overpaid if we're mediocre or bad, but underpaid if we're really good.

I've thought that every piano teacher I've had in the last 30 years has undercharged (and I've told them so!), except for the couple of them that I didn't think were much good (and who I saw just once).

John, are your lessons centred on pedagogy? Or on technique? Or on repertoire? IOW, are you studying with Ms. Tan as a piano teacher or as a pianist? Jane Tan was a name we all heard for a number of years, but mostly through her published materials aimed at young pianists.

She has slipped from my radar, but thanks for the memory jog!

Curious in Toronto

Generally I agree; competition does set metes and bounds around what both the good and bad in any field can charge.

Part of being a good consumer is deciding when someone is really good and then making sure that that person realizes in every way how much you appreciate her professional performance. That's why I insist on paying good music teachers more than the rate they quote (and stop using bad ones). I do the same with other professionals.

That has less to do with generosity than with the consumer's self interest, but it's nice that it can be perceived as the former.