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#1889981 - 05/02/12 12:23 PM Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli?
johnlewisgrant Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 485
Loc: canada
What are the advantages of Kontakt4 over ISP for the Imperfect Faz?

I'm leaning towards K4 because I've only been able to run ONE perspective at a time with ISP in Sonar. I'm I right?

Also, ISP and SAVIhost don't seem to work together to provide a standalone player, at least, not for me!

Any suggestions/solutions?

JG

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#1890847 - 05/04/12 02:30 AM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Gigantoad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
It seems that Kontakt is the best option. However it's important to realise that it isn't a VST host. It's a full blown sampling software that can itself be used as a VST inside a DAW.

I never fully understood why Imperfect Samples needs the full version of Kontakt. There must be something that the free Kontakt Player can't do but I don't know what exactly.

Quote:

You cannot use Kontakt Player with this library. Please use Full Retail Kontakt 4 or higher, or EXS24, or use the included PC & Mac (VST / AU) version


This has me wondering, can't you simply use Sonar and load up the VST like any other library? Is this the ISP bit that you mentioned?

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#1890907 - 05/04/12 07:11 AM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Ojustaboo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/18/11
Posts: 155
Loc: Deleted
Deleted


Edited by Ojustaboo (07/29/13 06:06 PM)

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#1890920 - 05/04/12 08:03 AM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: johnlewisgrant]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3816
Loc: North Carolina
If you just play piano and you've chosen a piano library (the OP chose Imperfect Samples), why would you go to the extra expense of buying the full Kontakt just to get other pianos and drums and guitars that you don't need?

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#1890973 - 05/04/12 09:37 AM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: MacMacMac]
Ojustaboo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/18/11
Posts: 155
Loc: Deleted
Deleted


Edited by Ojustaboo (07/29/13 06:06 PM)

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#1890982 - 05/04/12 09:56 AM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: johnlewisgrant]
johnlewisgrant Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 485
Loc: canada
Yes, the full version is required to run Imperfect Faz. If I had any reason to believe that the piano samples packaged with Komplete 8 were in the same league as Garritan Steinway, EWQL, or Imperfect Faz I would look into it.

In any case, a host called "ISP" is provided (independently) that is supposed to run Imperfect Faz, but I can't get it to work for more than 1 perspective at a time within Sonar 8.5. I am running the 64 bit version of Sonar, but I don't think that should make any difference.

JG

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#1891019 - 05/04/12 11:10 AM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
John, have you contacted the Fazioli developer for support?

Lawrence
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1891109 - 05/04/12 01:23 PM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: Melodialworks Music]
johnlewisgrant Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 485
Loc: canada
Hi Lawrence,

Yup... he's not available for the next while, and I'm impatient. 279.00 is what it will cost me to get the non-timed out version of Kontakt (now K5), which is odd in a sense, since a perfectly usable version of Kontakt was supplied with the Vintage D.

BTW.... you were right about this sample... it's the height of realism for my purposes (so far). I'm not sure how I missed that when it was launched in 2010. Could have been the demos, which were nothing to write home about (my view only). It was only when I heard it via a thread HERE and pianoworld that I realized what was possible.

Cheers,

JG

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#1891131 - 05/04/12 01:48 PM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Gigantoad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
Did you check out his new Steinway? I thought you said you didn' like the Fazioli sound much.

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#1891150 - 05/04/12 02:26 PM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: Gigantoad]
johnlewisgrant Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 485
Loc: canada
Don't get me wrong... I'm not crazy about the actual, real Faz: played a few... sure... great piano.. obviously. But for that kind of money I could do with less "tin" in the tone. (I actually prefer the tone and the touch of my cheapo Chinese piano. (Sue me.)

But this sample is another thing altogether. Sure, some of the unisons are way off (deliberately), although I notice that's been softened with the update. And I wrote it off when it came out because all I had were the demos, which didn't do anything for me. But, as I say, I was kinda blown away by the Chopin rendering thread here, which featured the top samples with a Scherzo and a Nocturne: for my money, the Faz rendition blows away the others... and I own most of the others, so I could relate to the issues around playability and recorded end-result.

(It may be the "imperfect" element. But I'm starting to think that it has more to do with the mic positions and type of mics used to do the samples.)

Having said that... my ears may be changing with age. Or maybe its the planars I'm using now as monitors. What you listen through is (obviously) pretty important. Now the Garritan (player mic position... not the others) is starting to sound competitive, even though I had sort of started doubting it a few years ago.

It's a journey, that's for sure.

Forgot... the Walnut... hmmmm.... doesn't turn my crank initially ... but I can hear some nice elements .... more listening required, I think.

RE the focus on PIANO samples, question implied above, piano folks with ears know that there's a hugely important distinction between instruments and sounds which can be (given the current state of sampling) convincingly sampled and those which cannot. The piano (harpsichord, organ, clavichord, drums of all descriptions, harp, and so on) yield nice and useful results. Stringed instruments, on the other hand, can be sampled realistically, but with limited use once the sample is "translated" into music. Fake (sampled) keyboards, well-done, are impossible to pick out. Fake (sampled) strings (just one example) are a dead give away. I love the sound .... but only in the right context, which means don't try to pretend you're competing with a real band or orchestra when you can't or, more important, when you shouldn't be.

JG--digressing hugely....

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#1891214 - 05/04/12 04:28 PM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: johnlewisgrant]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 539
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
suprised Melodial Works hasn't contributed to this thread- i think he acquired Imperfect Samples/Kontakt. If he's out there- what do you think Lawrence? (JG- maybe you should send him a private ping).

I sent an email to the developer a while back about the ISP he had made available vs full retail kontakt and he was adamant that you would be leaving a lot on the table with his samples if you didn't use full Kontakt.

let us know how this goes for you...

thanks!
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1891232 - 05/04/12 05:00 PM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
I have contributed, but nothing further to contribute to the the question of K4 (or K5) v. ISP, since I already had K4. No need to ever run ISP, so no consideration for feature loss. I can state that no advantage of K5 or K4, in terms of running the Fazioli, according to Matt.
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1891234 - 05/04/12 05:03 PM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: johnlewisgrant]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 539
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
what is your quick recap on imperfect/kontakt? are you happy with it- big improvement over other samples?
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1891237 - 05/04/12 05:05 PM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: johnlewisgrant]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: johnlewisgrant

But this sample is another thing altogether. Sure, some of the unisons are way off (deliberately), although I notice that's been softened with the update.


Yes. I was having success running two perspectives at the same time, except that the unisons being off becomes too pronounced. I have wondered if there is a way to edit the samples and tighten up the tuning, since using two perspectives at the same time is otherwise quite appealing. I wouldn't want them tuned too perfecting, though. Once the warts are removed from this sample set, the magic is lost, as is demonstrated by Perfect perspectives.
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1891296 - 05/04/12 06:40 PM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: Melodialworks Music]
johnlewisgrant Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 485
Loc: canada
Of course, that's the beauty of this sample, isn't it? Even in a tightly managed recording session, the instrument will go slightly out of tune. But some of those unisons in the first iteration were, well, pure heck (can I say that?). They've been resampled in the update, as far as I can tell.

Anyhow, OK I suppose I'll have to fork for K5. You only live once (that's what folks like me in my 50s say).

JG

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#1892923 - 05/07/12 01:16 PM Re: Is KONTAKT 4 worth it to run Imperfect Fazioli? [Re: johnlewisgrant]
daviel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 933
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
I love Kontakt pianos - I went to K 5 recently
_________________________
"She loves to limbo, that much is clear. She's got the right dynamic for the New Frontier"
http://roadhouseallstars.com/

David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas

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