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#1894713 - 05/10/12 11:20 AM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: BDB]
Davehammerklavier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 88
You are right.

But like many in this topic, you loose the fact that outside this topic (which is made of words) there are facts and Europiano members are involved (and shamed).

Think what you feel it's right. I do the same.

It started with the hammers and finished with the bad keyboard just because life is not simple, but complex.

(anyway, please: before speaking, read all the passages of a conversation trying to undestand not only the ones that are more comfortable to you, but all...)

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#1894716 - 05/10/12 11:25 AM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Davehammerklavier]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4226
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Originally Posted By: Davehammerklavier
For the rest, I don't want to RE-publish any pictures of my piano because I don't care:


Well, you care enough to endure and comment in 4 pages of a forum thread.

Originally Posted By: Davehammerklavier
I was here trying to figure out if the company has made honest and sincere promises and correct suggestions or not.


PianoWorld and its members do not set any policy for Brodman Piano Co. If there is to be a determination that the company has made honest and sincere promises those things will not be found here in these pages. Try the court system in Italy for these kinds of answers.

Originally Posted By: Davehammerklavier
The truth is that you just want to watch in my pants to protect the brands that You sell.


So far no posting I have read is deliberately offensive to you as this posting is to other members.

So, there are to be no photos. This is not a problem. Please have one of the several technicians you have had inspect this instrument chime in here to discuss the findings. That way the technicians on this board can fully understand the problems you are experiencing.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1894717 - 05/10/12 11:27 AM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Davehammerklavier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 88
I've kindly asked to delete this topic.

Read (and think) before speaking.

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#1894718 - 05/10/12 11:28 AM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Davehammerklavier]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8583
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Davehammerklavier
I agree. A friend of mine has no problem and he has showed me his piano parts: his keyboard is perfectly sawn and working.

Hi again, Dave,

I know there is a slight language barrier here, but I’m struggling with the concept of your keyboard/action being improperly sawn? In what way?

For example, the keyboard/action on my grand piano is not perfectly/symmetrically positioned either… in other words, the action rail is not positioned perfectly centered on the rectangular keyboard; it is offset just a little so that if you look down the hammer line, it is not perfectly in line with the keyboard edges. But when in the piano, the hammers are correctly aligned with the strings at the proper angle.

Are you saying the hammer strike point is not correct once the keyboard/action is in your piano?

I’m just trying to fully understand the problem. This is where the photos would be beneficial to all of us.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1894720 - 05/10/12 11:30 AM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Davehammerklavier]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4226
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Davehammerklavier
I've kindly asked to delete this topic.

Read (and think) before speaking.



You have made serious allegations about your instrument and the manufacturer of that instrument. Now as things do not go the way you have expected, it is now time to delete this topic?

Have your technician, or technicians join this thread to explain what they have found.

Is there a problem with this too?
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1894721 - 05/10/12 11:33 AM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Rickster]
Davehammerklavier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 88
Originally Posted By: Rickster
Originally Posted By: Davehammerklavier
I agree. A friend of mine has no problem and he has showed me his piano parts: his keyboard is perfectly sawn and working.

Hi again, Dave,

I know there is a slight language barrier here, but I’m struggling with the concept of your keyboard/action being improperly sawn? In what way?

For example, the keyboard/action on my grand piano is not perfectly/symmetrically positioned either… in other words, the action rail is not positioned perfectly centered on the rectangular keyboard; it is offset just a little so that if you look down the hammer line, it is not perfectly in line with the keyboard edges. But when in the piano, the hammers are correctly aligned with the strings at the proper angle.

Are you saying the hammer strike point is not correct once the keyboard/action is in your piano?

I’m just trying to fully understand the problem. This is where the photos would be beneficial to all of us.

Rick


No, it is NOT that the problem.

Bad sawn: the keys (NOT the action) of the keyboard are unproperly sawn and they scratch one against the other inside the keyboard while you play.

It is something so absurd (but concrete and simple, I mean) that you still stop to think of tuning problems, but they don't.

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#1894723 - 05/10/12 11:34 AM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Davehammerklavier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 88
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos
Originally Posted By: Davehammerklavier
I've kindly asked to delete this topic.

Read (and think) before speaking.



You have made serious allegations about your instrument and the manufacturer of that instrument. Now as things do not go the way you have expected, it is now time to delete this topic?

Have your technician, or technicians join this thread to explain what they have found.

Is there a problem with this too?


In Italy we live a real life, not a "virtual forum life" and we solve problems in the real one.

I started this topic in friendship to share experiences in good faith: you see, if I want an expertise, I call Mr. Fabbrini.

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#1894729 - 05/10/12 11:41 AM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Davehammerklavier]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4226
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Davehammerklavier
In Ialy we live a real life, not a "virtual forum life" and we solve problems in the real one.

I started this topic in friendship: if I want an expertise, I call Mr. Fabbrini.


Please contact Mr. Fabbrini and sort this out in real life then. Obviously there is no more to discuss here.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1894730 - 05/10/12 11:42 AM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Davehammerklavier]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8583
Loc: Georgia, USA
Just a thought, Dave,

Have you been keeping written records and photos of the chain of events since the piano was purchase new? If not, I think that would be a good idea.

I’m sorry you are experiencing these issues… a new piano should be a wonderful and joyous experience.

There is a lesson here for us all that the integrity and reputation of the dealer we buy from does matter, and not just the price.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1894738 - 05/10/12 11:52 AM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Rickster]
Davehammerklavier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 88
Originally Posted By: Rickster
Just a thought, Dave,

Have you been keeping written records and photos of the chain of events since the piano was purchase new? If not, I think that would be a good idea.

I’m sorry you are experiencing these issues… a new piano should be a wonderful and joyous experience.

There is a lesson here for us all that the integrity and reputation of the dealer we buy from does matter, and not just the price.

Rick


Yes. I've started a topic on this forum one year ago. That means that I have one whole year of records, payment receips and technicians ready to "use".

But, after all, I'm starting to see that there is something strangely "heroic" in the that dealer policy: he sells un-serious brand pianos for what they are worth.

Thank You very much indeed, good bye You.

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#1894742 - 05/10/12 12:00 PM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Davehammerklavier]
Larry Buck Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 2359
Loc: Lowell MA
What concerns me is that Dave is NOT willing to provide the supporting evidence here.

All requests for that supporting information are met with contention from Dave.

He is asking us to champion his cause on his say so alone.

I am unwilling to do that.
_________________________
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants."
Isaac Newton

E. J. Buck & Sons
Lowell MA 01852
978 458 8688
www.ejbuckpiano.com
http://www.facebook.com/EJBuckPerformances

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#1894745 - 05/10/12 12:05 PM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Davehammerklavier]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14210
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Dave:

I and many others have come here to effectively help you as good as they possibly can can.

This included getting in contact with a number of people also overseas who we thought could be of help.

As long as you are not willing to publish even one single picture of the action or the piano itself, we can be unfortunately of no help.

You said you had published pictures here before but I couldn't find any, not even in the archives.

This is a serious contradiction.

Your tone towards those who want to help you is becoming increasingly hostile.

Those who have jumped prematurely onto the prosecutorial band wagon have been heartily congratulated by you despite the fact that not one single piece of evidence has been submitted here. Nada.

Unless one relies only on unsubstantiated claims, second hand information, etc on our continent nobody could possibly be expected to reach a fair conclusion for you or on your behalf.

Some here are starting to ask if the piano even exists.

Wishing you the best to have the matter resolved whatever "matter" this seems to be.

Finally, please note this is not "our" case, you are not our customer and nobody here owes you anything.

Our own and customers' experience with Brodmann is positive throughout, the pianos have earned great respect on the market and many people have written nice testimonials about them here.

This is not to glorify the make or that there could never be a concern but if anyone has serious complaints he would be expected to document the case in a credible and transparent way. In cases where this has ever occurred, pictures are immediately taken and submitted.

With all due respect,you have so far failed to do so.

Please also note that not one single dealer seems to understand your problem you're talking about.At same time it is not possible that nobody else would have ever "not" experienced a similar situation. Simply by law of average.

Last not least please let me say this:

If a victim is not cooperative with the prosecution, on our continent such case is normally thrown out of court.

Sorry, but I'm out.

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (05/10/12 12:53 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1894748 - 05/10/12 12:12 PM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Davehammerklavier]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21826
Loc: Oakland
Originally Posted By: Davehammerklavier
Originally Posted By: Rickster
Originally Posted By: Davehammerklavier
I agree. A friend of mine has no problem and he has showed me his piano parts: his keyboard is perfectly sawn and working.

Hi again, Dave,

I know there is a slight language barrier here, but I’m struggling with the concept of your keyboard/action being improperly sawn? In what way?

For example, the keyboard/action on my grand piano is not perfectly/symmetrically positioned either… in other words, the action rail is not positioned perfectly centered on the rectangular keyboard; it is offset just a little so that if you look down the hammer line, it is not perfectly in line with the keyboard edges. But when in the piano, the hammers are correctly aligned with the strings at the proper angle.

Are you saying the hammer strike point is not correct once the keyboard/action is in your piano?

I’m just trying to fully understand the problem. This is where the photos would be beneficial to all of us.

Rick


No, it is NOT that the problem.

Bad sawn: the keys (NOT the action) of the keyboard are unproperly sawn and they scratch one against the other inside the keyboard while you play.

It is something so absurd (but concrete and simple, I mean) that you still stop to think of tuning problems, but they don't.


It would take maybe an hour of a technician's time to fix this with some sandpaper or a plane, if that is the actual problem. You have spent much more time than that whining about it.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#1894792 - 05/10/12 01:43 PM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Davehammerklavier]
alfredo capurso Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 1085
Loc: Sicily - Italy

Hi,

From reading this thread I understand that Dave was not asking for a technical/expert advice, in my view he/she was wanting to collect some information on that precise piano brand, in order to know if others have had similar problems and perhaps share his/her own individual experience and feelings.

No need to say that this whole story is a bit of a nightmare and, as already mentioned, any reader may get the "lesson" right, no matter the country.

All I can say to the OP, Dave, is that nobody here meant to be evil, nobody intended to defend what they are selling, nobody has ever wanted to put the blame on you or anyone else. At the opposite, I've only read of posters that have been trying to help you to sort this whole thing out.

About your actual needs I can tell you that anything in a piano can be repaired, every single part, even keys that were badly finished. You just need a good technician, Mr. Fabbrini is one and you are surely able to find many others.

Then I hope you understand how your PW friends, not last Dan, have been very generous in taking your issue at heart and getting so much involved in your story, when possibly it all was pretty turbid since the beginning.

If you don't want this thread to go on you can simply stop posting. I hope you can get your piano fixed asap and enjoy playing music again and again.

Regards, a.c.
.
_________________________
alfredo

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#1894805 - 05/10/12 02:06 PM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Davehammerklavier]
Davehammerklavier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 88
Yes, a nightmare for my family and I.

1) I wasn't looking for help about the action or about the keyboard at all.

2) I was looking for help in the hammers selection: the factory has made a lot of modifications and confusion about that.

3) Regard the keyboard I was interested to understand in friendship if the factory could be in good faith or not about the promises they have made to me.


I have to say that to my taste You're going to seem more and more "slothful".

That's enough for me.

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#1894813 - 05/10/12 02:18 PM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Davehammerklavier]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4226
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

For PW members;

The same topic on an Italian piano forum from December 23 2011.Apparently things went hostile there and the moderators had to chime in a few times.

This is a translated page so read patiently. I don’t believe any of the photos are of the piano in question.

When you go to this link a window pops up asking if you want to print the page. Just select cancel and continue.

PIANOFORTE ACUSTICO E MODERNO
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1894814 - 05/10/12 02:19 PM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Davehammerklavier]
Ken Knapp Offline



Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 2278
Loc: Pennsylvania
What a convoluted mess.

I would have thought that this topic might have prompted Brodmann to either step in here or contact the OP and resolve the matter to his satisfaction. It would have been nice. No matter the circumstances between them and the dealer, whether the dealer paid for the piano or not, the OP did buy it from a dealer. It's not like he bought it from the back of a van on a street corner. Thus this idea of Brodmann not being responsible because of this is clouded IMHO.

Personally I am disappointed. I have seen many cases on here when a manufacturer steps in and does what is necessary even when it is not their fault. Does this make Brodmann a bad company or irresponsible? No. They are within their rights. I'm just disappointed.

But be that as it may, it is time to give this topic a rest. When things become adversarial between a person with a problem and the people just trying to help, what can be accomplished? Only hard feelings.

Maybe I will reopen this topic later on if there is anything NEW and NOTEWORTHY that I am made aware of. Until then, TOPIC CLOSED.
_________________________
Ken

Piano Organ Depot
http://www.pianoorgandepot.com
Hammond Organ Technician
http://www.tonewheeltech.com
Vice President - MITA, International
http://www.mitatechs.org
http://www.facebook.com/MITATechs

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#1896806 - 05/14/12 04:40 PM Re: Brodmann 212 Adventure... [Re: Davehammerklavier]
Ken Knapp Offline



Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 2278
Loc: Pennsylvania
As promised, I am posting additional information which has been provided by a forum member who has contacts within the company.

Brodmann has not posted in any of the topics created on Piano World or on any other forum where this matter has been discussed.Why?

Because the resolution of this problem is not their responsibility. It is not a warranty issue. They could have stepped in and stated their side of the story but they felt that to do so would possibly embarrass their customer. I can understand that and it seems to me that this is the mark of a first class outfit.

I have also removed Davehammerklavier's posting privileges. This is because of his adversarial stance he took against forum members trying to help. He started another topic where he posted pictures and maintained a "who asked you" attitude towards members participating. For now, at least, he is gone. We don't need this kind of stuff on here.
_________________________
Ken

Piano Organ Depot
http://www.pianoorgandepot.com
Hammond Organ Technician
http://www.tonewheeltech.com
Vice President - MITA, International
http://www.mitatechs.org
http://www.facebook.com/MITATechs

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