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#1892169 - 05/06/12 10:49 AM Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital
shirlkirsten Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: Berkeley, California
I have been videotaping Rina's lessons since age 4. We began using Irina Gorin's Tales of a Musical Journey, for its focus on supple wrists, and expressive playing from the start.

http://arioso7.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/...-lessons-video/
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Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha Arius141
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#1892247 - 05/06/12 01:18 PM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: shirlkirsten]
piano2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/26/11
Posts: 85
Thanks foe sharing the videos. She plays beautifully!
I'm wondering about the how she is seated. To me, she seems rather far away from the keyboard.
Any other opinions on seating?

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#1892364 - 05/06/12 04:31 PM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: piano2]
shirlkirsten Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: Berkeley, California
I think she was well seated so her arms had ample room. She flows quite well in and out of the piano.
_________________________
Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha Arius141
MTAC Alameda

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#1892704 - 05/07/12 04:48 AM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: shirlkirsten]
SamXu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 208
Loc: I'm standing upside down...
sorry...but I don't think she has talent. I could play beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 20 in G major 1st movement when I was 5. :L
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HSC pieces:
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Messiaen Regard d'letoile
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#1892767 - 05/07/12 08:38 AM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: SamXu]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12910
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Debbusyist
sorry...but I don't think she has talent. I could play beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 20 in G major 1st movement when I was 5. :L

And who are you? smirk
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#1892771 - 05/07/12 08:42 AM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: shirlkirsten]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12910
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I enjoy her dynamics very much, and her attention to tone. The wrists look very relaxed/flexible. Thanks for sharing!
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#1893375 - 05/08/12 08:40 AM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: shirlkirsten]
piano2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/26/11
Posts: 85
In the view on the video, her arms look almost straight. I like to seat my students a little closer, so that they may use the whole key, even when playing white key melodies. They are then able to maintain a higher hand position (palm of hand above the keys).
The student had a lovely hand shape while playing the piece using a black key. Why not use that position when using only white keys?

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#1893379 - 05/08/12 08:48 AM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: piano2]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12910
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: piano2
In the view on the video, her arms look almost straight. I like to seat my students a little closer, so that they may use the whole key, even when playing white key melodies. They are then able to maintain a higher hand position (palm of hand above the keys).
The student had a lovely hand shape while playing the piece using a black key. Why not use that position when using only white keys?



On one hand, I agree the distance is a bit too far. On the other hand, as the child grows, this distance will work itself out, and she's not playing anything at the level where the distance could cause injury. But there are many things with young students that we have to allow for concessions as they are really just beginning to develop fine motor skills. Bench distance is a relatively easy thing to correct.
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#1893434 - 05/08/12 10:13 AM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: shirlkirsten]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 12487
Loc: Canada
I am thinking that if an adult and a child are both sitting on the same bench, this may not indicate how the child sits when she is alone. Shirley?

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#1893435 - 05/08/12 10:15 AM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: SamXu]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 12487
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Debbusyist
sorry...but I don't think she has talent. I could play beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 20 in G major 1st movement when I was 5. :L

Since you are writing in a teacher forum, where the aim is to discuss how to teach a student and give that student the skills she needs, in what way is your comment helpful toward that aim? If you think she has no talent, are you saying that her teacher should not teach her and she should quit - or are you saying that her teacher should do certain work with her (what kind do you recommend?). How does the repertoire that you played at age 5 help this teacher with this student? Are you involved because you are interested in teaching in the future?

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#1893474 - 05/08/12 11:42 AM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: keystring]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12910
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: keystring
I am thinking that if an adult and a child are both sitting on the same bench, this may not indicate how the child sits when she is alone. Shirley?


A good point, but upon looking at the video again, the teacher is sitting in a chair next to the bench.
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#1896478 - 05/14/12 12:11 AM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: keystring]
shirlkirsten Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: Berkeley, California
quite true, Key String...She plays on a console.. not on my grand in the studio.
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You Tube Channel
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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha Arius141
MTAC Alameda

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#1896479 - 05/14/12 12:14 AM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: shirlkirsten]
shirlkirsten Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: Berkeley, California
Here are my thoughts about hand position.. as it relates to Rina and other students.

http://arioso7.wordpress.com/2012/05/13/...vention-videos/
_________________________
Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha Arius141
MTAC Alameda

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#1896585 - 05/14/12 07:43 AM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: shirlkirsten]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 12487
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: music32
Here are my thoughts about hand position.. as it relates to Rina and other students.

http://arioso7.wordpress.com/2012/05/13/...vention-videos/


In the videos on your site, I see more than just wrist in Ena Bronstein's playing. Every part of the arm is involved, with no joint locked. Further, her whole body is engaged, she shifts her weight on the bench, and you see her left foot move from time to time as she balances there too. I tend to look for these things because of where I am in my own playing. I enjoyed the videos in your link.

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#1896755 - 05/14/12 02:48 PM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: shirlkirsten]
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5921
Loc: Orange County, CA
I would be very concerned about the arm movements. How can a student create a smooth legato (and long legato lines) with so much arm movement?
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#1896783 - 05/14/12 03:51 PM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: keystring]
shirlkirsten Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: Berkeley, California
well, of course, one plays with far more than wrist flexibility understood. One cannot separate the wrist from the relaxed arms, the upper body spectrum, elbows. etc. and my teaching videos emphasize this over and again. I spotlighted the wrist because there was tradition sadly that gave it no attention, or espoused a stiff hand position. Times have changed, and less injuries, hopefully ensued. Bronstein's playing is a wonderful model of all that I mentioned.. and same for Irina Morozova whose video is also included.
_________________________
Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha Arius141
MTAC Alameda

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#1896788 - 05/14/12 03:54 PM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: shirlkirsten]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 12487
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: music32
well, of course, one plays with far more than wrist flexibility understood. One cannot separate the wrist from the relaxed arms, the upper body spectrum, elbows. etc. and my teaching videos emphasize this over and again. I spotlighted the wrist because there was tradition sadly that gave it no attention, or espoused a stiff hand position. Times have changed, and less injuries, hopefully ensued. Bronstein's playing is a wonderful model of all that I mentioned.. and same for Irina Morozova whose video is also included.

The Internet being what it is, someone might only notice the wrist and try to emulate only that which would also not be good. The videos you provided are a treasure for EVERYTHING they show, so I thought I'd point out what I saw. I actually think it is an important point that all of this works together as a unit, what do you think?

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#1898344 - 05/16/12 10:59 PM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: keystring]
shirlkirsten Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: Berkeley, California
yes,, all working in harmony, for sure.
_________________________
Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha Arius141
MTAC Alameda

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#1898452 - 05/17/12 06:18 AM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: shirlkirsten]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 12487
Loc: Canada
Thank you. smile

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#1898595 - 05/17/12 11:20 AM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: shirlkirsten]
MrsLois Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/12
Posts: 75
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
She plays so confidently, which is nice to see! smile

My only question would be one about the fingering... on the G-A-G with the 8th notes, did she use finger 5 for all three notes? Please don't think I'm criticizing your teaching... I'm just wondering if it would create a more successful legato in this 'Sad Frere Jacques' if she used 4-5-4-3-2-1 (stretching her thumb over the minor 3rd), and consequently set up a slightly 'better' fingering habit for long-term use?

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#1899199 - 05/18/12 12:12 PM Re: Progress of a 5 year old shown at recital [Re: shirlkirsten]
shirlkirsten Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: Berkeley, California
Mrs. Lois, Thanks for your comment. I think for now, the extended 5 on A works for her at just five years old. I thought about an alternative and didn't want to complicate the landscape at this time. She is, for one thing, very new to a five finger position up and down using legato connected fingers, so I didn't want to start altering things. When she matures, fingerings will change. Right now she's learning the Reinagle Minuet with two hands, and Little March by Turk. These are basically in five finger positions.. and a playing is always done in the parallel minor. (to keep the black notes alive and well)
_________________________
Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha Arius141
MTAC Alameda

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