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#2045352 - 03/09/13 02:31 AM Re: Customers? [Re: Bill12349876]
Nash. Piano Rescue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 384
Loc: East Nashville,TN Scottsville...
Accepting credit cards is a big deal and you can get one of those "Square" card readers for your smart phone. The amazing thing about " square" is that the Amex payments go into your bank account on the same day. If you use a hardline like the machine at our store it can take 5 months to show up. Good old Amex ! 2.75% isn't bad unless you sell lots of 80K dollar pianos every day.

Best way to get repeat customers is still word of mouth. I am pretty sure it always will be and the Piano biz has always been a seasonal gig as long as I can remember. March - August are slow months and the rest is wide open.
_________________________
J. Christie
Nashville Piano Rescue
www.NashvillePianoRescue.com
East Nashville
Bowling Green, KY
Scottsville KY.
Chamber of Commerce
Member/Sponsor

Putting inspiration in the hands of area musicians
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#2045841 - 03/10/13 10:03 AM Re: Customers? [Re: Bill12349876]
RoyP Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 784
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
You have me beat on mileage, Jeff. Those Rangers are good trucks. My PT Cruiser is up to 205k, and still running strong. It's too bad Ford decided to stop building the Ranger. Auto manufacturers have all but abandoned the small truck market. I wish somebody would build a small truck that would get decent mpg. Over time, all the small trucks became bigger. They all advertised "largest payload", "biggest in class", "most power", etc. It got to the point where there wasn't much advantage to buying small. My brother has an older VW truck which has a small diesel engine and gets over 40mpg. That's what I would buy if they still made them.

At any rate, you're lucky you have your wife to do your office work. Mine already has a full time job. One good thing is that we get our health insurance through her work.

I try to schedule an appointment in 6 months when I leave the customers house. I can tell big difference with those pianos. They become stable, and so are easier to tune. Which is good for both me and the customer.
_________________________
Roy Peters, RPT
Cincinnati, Ohio
www.cincypiano.com

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#2045935 - 03/10/13 01:18 PM Re: Customers? [Re: RoyP]
TunerJeff Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 450
Loc: Oregon Coast
Dear Roy,

One of the reasons I drive that '98 Ranger is the engine/tranny package. A manual 5-speed and a teeny little 4--banger with 2 sparkplugs per cyclinder. I average 27.5mpg in it..and I can get 30mpg traveling light and far. Just enough motor to pull the delivery trailer (...I also sell used pianos). As long as 'Elizabeth' keeps running, I'll keep driving! She's 'Beth' when she's good, and 'Lizzy' when she's bad...which has not been often at all. I just replaced the alternator, and I'm thinking of sending a thank-you card to FORD; "Dear Ford, My alternator failed recently at the end of a 150-mile run from a customer's home. Thank-you so much...it was the original and lasted 361,000 miles." ;>)

Credit cards;
We run 'Quickbooks' for records and recently got a card reader for my Android, at no charge. This lets me take credit cards in the customer home at very reduced rates. Swipe the card, and the customer signs with a finger. Cool. Under 2% rate! The deposit is in the bank in 2-business days...or less. I've heard that other swipe-card outfits take more, and take WEEKS to pay...which would not work for me.

Scheduling;
Take a look at www.pianoscheduler.com
This was created for a technician, by a technician working with a programmer, and has a lot of useful features. I don't use it, but hear good things about it. Maybe it will work for you. As I have an office manager, and someone answering the phone when it rings, I don't feel pressed to change things myself.

As I said before; I try to set a 'next tuning' before leaving the customer home, as a general rule 6-month or once a year, and then send a reminder card when the time comes. We recently started offering a $5.00-discount on the reminder cards; if you call within 2 weeks of getting the card, you save $5.00. This has worked far better than I thought it would (....the wife has good ideas!), and we are training our customers to call when the card gets there...instead of decorating the 'fridge for a month or three. I'm comfortable with the concept of offering a small discount to folks who are taking regular care, at my suggested intervals, of their fine pianos.....Winter spinet or Steinway!

Smiling,
we celebrate 29-yrs. today,
Jeff and Jodi, that is.....
_________________________
Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT
Oregon Coast Piano Services
TunerJeff440@aol.com

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#2045951 - 03/10/13 02:00 PM Re: Customers? [Re: Bill12349876]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7244
Loc: France
Jeffrey, after some time piano don't get as flat as one believe.

In the end when the soundboard is recnet and lively the pich jump up and down along the year, and we train the piano to be quieter, but after some time the settling works also with seasonal changes which are way less large (some time mean more than 10 years, often)

Then the more they are tuned, the more warm and round tone they have for some time. Unfortunately under good conditions they stay "playable" and +- at pitch, so I train my customer for the benefit they have at large, not only for the tuning, but also for the evening of tone and regulation.
The piano always raise a step or two on the quality scale after a tech visit. Making the customer aware of that is what I do.

I congratulate you for the organisation and the rest wink


Edited by Olek (03/10/13 02:04 PM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2046015 - 03/10/13 03:58 PM Re: Customers? [Re: Olek]
TunerJeff Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 450
Loc: Oregon Coast
Originally Posted By: Olek
Jeffrey, after some time piano don't get as flat as one believe... but after some time the settling works also with seasonal changes which are way less large (some time mean more than 10 years, often) Unfortunately under good conditions they stay "playable" and +- at pitch, so I train my customer for the benefit they have at large, not only for the tuning, but also for the evening of tone and regulation. The piano always raise a step or two on the quality scale after a tech visit. Making the customer aware of that is what I do.


Dear Olek,

I always appreciate your posts...one of the names I look for when a new thread comes up is your's. ;>)

I have been doing a lot of 'new' piano work in the last 10 years. Largely Yamaha, Kawai, Cable-Nelson, and a dash of Steinway, Mason-Hamlin, and Schimmel. My experience has been that new pianos that receive good dealer-prep and 3 or 4 tunings in the first year become much more pleasurable to tune than those that get minimal service.

I am convinced that early 'training' of the wire, and keeping the tension on the whole piano carefully balanced during the first two years, pays long-term benefits in stability and tone.

I agree that 'unfortunately' staying in tune can lead to customers getting lazy about tunings. And the way to keep them focused is to remind them of the benefits of regular care to the regulation and voicing. It is much easier for us to make fine adjustments and 'tweak' on regular visits...rather than wholesale, sometimes unstable, and major changes at 5 or 6 year intervals!

My approach is like your's. My job is to keep the piano in tune, and let the customer know about the 'little things' that are also done inside the piano. The more you can educate your customer on the value of regular care, the better for both! Years ago a technician offered me the advice you seem to follow; always do more than a tuning. Make the piano better than when you got there, look for ways to improve the sound and playability, and you'll sleep better at night. I agree! Raise the quality a step or two as you say.

I like my customers....they pay my bills.

Sipping,
Costa Rican today,
Ah!
_________________________
Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT
Oregon Coast Piano Services
TunerJeff440@aol.com

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#2046019 - 03/10/13 04:02 PM Re: Customers? [Re: Bill12349876]
jayr Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 74
Loc: Middle Tennessee
I have always maintained that the customer is always right. If a customer wants to call me back because the A doesn't sound right, even though it is in tune I go back and retune it. If it is in a reasonable amount of time there is no charge.
I too use the squareup to accept credit cards and very satisfied with the 2.75% fee.

I have several customers (teachers and churches) who set the next tuning date before I leave. I have not had to call them back because they have always called me the day before to find out if I'm coming for sure, and because I use a client program on my phone, I don't over schedule.
I have several piano teachers that call me and give me people's numbers to call because their student said to let the tuner know they needed their piano tuned.
I will say January and February were very slow months this year, but I believe it is because of the economy and the sequester that had people worried and they were not spending any extra money until things got straightened out.
Most people know they need to have their piano tuned, but they are afraid of how much it is going to cost. If you call them and remind them they might be feel embarassed to have you come tune the piano.
I say let them call you when it is convenient for them. I too send out reminder cards. Don't get a lot of call backs with the cards. I'm wondering if it is worth it for me. Don't know. I'll keep doing ti till I run out of cards and them make a decision.

Jay's Piano Tuning Service
www.jays-piano-tuning.com

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#2046064 - 03/10/13 05:13 PM Re: Customers? [Re: TunerJeff]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7244
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: TunerJeff


Dear Olek,

I always appreciate your posts...one of the names I look for when a new thread comes up is your's. ;>)



I am convinced that early 'training' of the wire, and keeping the tension on the whole piano carefully balanced during the first two years, pays long-term benefits in stability and tone.

I agree that 'unfortunately' staying in tune can lead to customers getting lazy about tunings. And the way to keep them focused is to remind them of the benefits of regular care to the regulation and voicing. It is much easier for us to make fine adjustments and 'tweak' on regular visits...rather than wholesale, sometimes unstable, and major changes at 5 or 6 year intervals!


I like my customers....they pay my bills.

Sipping,
Costa Rican today,
Ah!




Hi Jeff , I am embarrassing (but it is pleasing to read that, thank you wink

Yes I agree if I had to work more on new / very recent instruments (via a dealer for instance) my crusade would be to have more job done the first 2- 3 years, I always explain to a buyer that he have to be ready for that extra work but it pays in the long run.
Indeed it works too much sometime, I know a Steinway D that plays for lessons daily (with advanced students) ,I did not tune if since 1 year now, and the last time I came by for a coffee (the teacher is also a friend) I had to admit that he had to be very nit-picky to decide the piano "needs" a tuning.

But I will remind him to have something done before the tone get harsh, as in that case the wire may suffer (even if the tuning does not seem to change much)

To be honest some years before I really did not believe that such stability could be attained without a lot of tuning, (and it is never granted) , but I was shown how together we can re-conciliate the own consonance of the instrument and the wire/pin stability , and that this was called tuning,it was a real eye opener.

I mention that with a definitive enlightenment from Alfredo Capurso, who analyzed very finely the job;

In the end I believe that even among highly experienced tuners, there is always a little doubt in the end : was the piano really tuned as I was expecting during the tuning ? how much did it slept ?

Even concert tuners are not absolutely certain, of the adequation between the job done and the final result, then they use their knowledge and precedent experiences to be certain of the quality of their job. (some time it make their ego inflate a little wink )

Strangely that is in that aspect that neat and clear explanations on pin setting, unison building and justness(es)gives the last enlightenment (to me , but it worked for other tuners as well, BTW Alfredo will probably give training's and this should be a good opportunity, as he explains the things in a very clear way )

Well, I disgress... What I am sure is that the customers, before , where happy that their pianos wher tuned, and where sometime highly appreciative, while now, even the non musicians seem to realize that their piano (sometime a less than interesting musical instrument) did gain some magic, they where not expecting.

At the first range for that is the good pin setting control, itself allowing for all tone building variations one may wish to realize, then in second certainly the level at which consonance is allowed and how many partials are made active within the octave, the double the 5th and twelve, etc , that makes a "bed" for global musicality and future stability.

Certainly the evening of the wire "solicitation" and the evenness of tension is a big help as well (as someone from Bechstein told me "yes, the amount in regard of BS is important, but what relates to it too, i.e the wire stretch eveness" (and the iH slant eveness, and certainly other parameters)

Well I wonder if our customers are aware of how many people work so their pianos need less tuning wink

Best regards








(while before I was doing as much tuners and "knew" that a note will stay put because of confidence and tone energy recognizing, without having left the note in this exact position
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2046908 - 03/12/13 10:37 AM Re: Customers? [Re: TunerJeff]
Ed Foote Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1101
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: TunerJeff


I am convinced that early 'training' of the wire, and keeping the tension on the whole piano carefully balanced during the first two years, pays long-term benefits in stability and tone.


Greetings,
I haven't noticed this, but am curious about how it would change the stability and tone? I have tuned instruments that have been neglected for decades, (A 15 year old Baldwin L that had been purchased and never tuned) that,once brought to pitch, seemed the same as others like them.

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#2046922 - 03/12/13 11:06 AM Re: Customers? [Re: Bill12349876]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7244
Loc: France
it is way easier if it have been done

even 30 years later, you can put back a piano at pitch in a stable manner and then it is noticed that that tuning have been done at some point.

non tuned , even non played pianos, after 10-15 years, are a hassle to bring back to musicality, the soundboard move too much you obtain bends in the speaking lenghts, the bridge roll, it is in the end amasing that pianos could have such "memory" and help the tuner when they are bring back to pitch.
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2046938 - 03/12/13 11:36 AM Re: Customers? [Re: Ed Foote]
TunerJeff Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 450
Loc: Oregon Coast
[quote=Ed Foote Greetings,
I haven't noticed this, but am curious about how it would change the stability and tone? I have tuned instruments that have been neglected for decades, (A 15 year old Baldwin L that had been purchased and never tuned) that,once brought to pitch, seemed the same as others like them.[/quote]

Dear Ed,

While I do have institutional and concert tunings, through the events centers and schools I tune for, my basic business is truly in-home service. On the Oregon Coast I get a fair turnover of people moving in and out as the years are rolling by. So...I see older pianos that have been untuned for years, too. Just tuned a Yamaha G3 that had been ignored for 5 or 6 years, and tuned 'because they moved it'. It tuned up just fine, too.

Pianos that have really been 'let-go' can have issues when you crank the wires 30 or 40-cents up to pitch. Consider the bends in the wires at the bearing points getting dragged off the positions they've been sitting at for years. Those little kinks are now in the upper-capo area, or into the speaking length off the bridge-pins (although some tuners swear that the bridge will 'roll' rather than let the string render through the bridge-pins on older pianos). It can lead to false-beats or crummy termination issues. Sometimes the capo-duplex starts howling, too. Re-seating everything can help, but..of course...better that it never gets that bad!

I do seriously notice when a recently neglected piano, that got plenty of 'early training', is tuned it will practically jump back into place. There is an ease to the tuning, less fighting with the pins, and an 'Ah!' when the unisons slide back together. A totally neglected instrument, that did not get that 'early training' does not reflect that ease and smoothness when you crank it into place. Less stable, and wants another tuning much sooner.

The tone reflects the early care, too. A piano that was well-maintained, regulated, and voiced during the 'early training' tends to be much more willing to return to that state of balance and tone if it gets ngelected for a while. Again; if it lived there a while, in balance and sound, it is more willing to return to it than one that never got the advantage of proper care in the first place. That's all I'm saying, ok?

The stability of 'early training' I am convinced of, too. When you keep the 20-30 tons of string tension (grands especially) in good balance during the early years, you are getting the piano used to the tension properly distributed; the strings, bridges, and soundboard all get used to, and more willing to return to, their 'proper' place. When I see pianos I've been tuning since day 1, from delivery to present day, they are WAY more stable, and need less attention year by year, than pianos that owners only tuned once in the first year. While both pianos may now be tuned once a year, the piano that got good care during the first two years will have drifted less, and be more willing to go back into tune. The 'Ah!' effect shows...in my experience at least!

Yr. mileage may vary,
Sipping the Sumatra Dark,
Ah!
_________________________
Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT
Oregon Coast Piano Services
TunerJeff440@aol.com

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#2047377 - 03/13/13 12:08 AM Re: Customers? [Re: Bill12349876]
RoyP Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 784
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
Jeff, we are waiting for your book and video...How To Train Your Piano.
_________________________
Roy Peters, RPT
Cincinnati, Ohio
www.cincypiano.com

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#2047402 - 03/13/13 01:11 AM Re: Customers? [Re: RoyP]
TunerJeff Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 450
Loc: Oregon Coast
Roy,

Tune, regulate, voice. Rinse and repeat. Whip is optional (..for training the piano-owner to tune regularly!).

Actually, when I got back from the Yamaha Little Red Schoolhouse, I started telling my chapter-mates that it was an intensive course on the 'Care and Feeding of Yamaha pianos'.

But, I am absolutely serious about this, guys. You take care of a piano for the first couple years, and it can be recognized later. I tuned a Baldwin upright last month, which the owner had just inherited from her mom, and it was 'one of those'. It had not been tuned during the last many years of her failing health, and was 15-20 cents flat, but it just jumped back to pitch, the unisons were easy to finish, and it just 'felt' right. As I tuned through the midrange I turned to the owner and said; 'This piano is tuning very nicely!'. And she said that her Mom was a piano teacher and always tuned it 3 or 4 times a year when she was younger. It matters, guys!

Probably had that experience on my mind when I answered that post up above here....

Scratching,
my head, that is,
I remain,
Convinced,
_________________________
Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT
Oregon Coast Piano Services
TunerJeff440@aol.com

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#2047502 - 03/13/13 07:59 AM Re: Customers? [Re: TunerJeff]
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3834
Originally Posted By: TunerJeff


You take care of a piano for the first couple years, and it can be recognized later. It matters, guys!



This is absolutely true. I've been able to verify it many times, thanks to tuning notes from other tuners though the years.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






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#2048097 - 03/14/13 08:58 AM Re: Customers? [Re: Bill12349876]
RoyP Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 784
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
I agree that the frequent early care of pianos tends to help in the long run. They seem to find their "happy place", and not change so much. Many of the pianos that I see every six months have been regular customers since the piano was new. They just are more stable.

I don't do much work for dealers currently. When I did, there were some sales people who would routinely tell customers that the piano wouldn't have to be tuned for a year. It seems that a common sales pitch was to impress the customer with what a high quality piano it was by telling them that they wouldn't have to tune it as much. I was often counteracting these ideas.

For those of you using Genbook. Does it allow customers to book multiple services per appointment? I'm still weighing options. In looking at these, I think I have it narrowed down to FullSlate, Appointy, or Genbook. It seems that there are literally dozens of these services now. Most of them probably do an adequate job.

Currently leaning towards FullSlate, which allows you to set up multiple locations. So you can be in one part of town on a particular day. That's the big attraction for me. I'm trying to cut down on driving. It allows customers to book multiple services per appointment. You can have customers either register or not. It will sync with Quickbooks, so you don't have to add new customers to the database manually. But that's an extra charge. That's Intuit, who charges extra fees for just about anything.

Appointy looks very good. But it looks like Appointy charges $.05 for every text message. It wouldn't be that much, but it's something. Appointy and Genbook look stronger on the marketing end of things. But that's not what I need so much.

As far as pre-screening customers. There are many of these services which claim to cut down on false bookings. So apparently it is a common problem. It doesn't take much imagination to think about what could happen. Imagine some 15 year old kid sitting in his mom's basement filling up your schedule, booking appointments, and laughing about sending the piano tuner running all over town. If this started to happen to you, you might want some barriers. If anyone can go online and book, they might not even own a piano. Your ideas about what constitutes a good business practice might change. That's what I'm talking about, not whether someone deserves to have their piano tuned.
_________________________
Roy Peters, RPT
Cincinnati, Ohio
www.cincypiano.com

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#2048168 - 03/14/13 11:57 AM Re: Customers? [Re: RoyP]
TunerJeff Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 450
Loc: Oregon Coast
Originally Posted By: RoyP
As far as pre-screening customers. There are many of these services which claim to cut down on false bookings. So apparently it is a common problem. It doesn't take much imagination to think about what could happen. Imagine some 15 year old kid sitting in his mom's basement filling up your schedule, booking appointments, and laughing about sending the piano tuner running all over town. If this started to happen to you, you might want some barriers. If anyone can go online and book, they might not even own a piano. Your ideas about what constitutes a good business practice might change. That's what I'm talking about, not whether someone deserves to have their piano tuned.


I'm not sure that I would ever be comfortable with letting my customers access my entire schedule online, and book themselves a time-slot whenever they felt like it! Beyond the simple knowledge of how busy I am...or not, depending on the month!...I would not feel terribly secure about my home and business with the fact that I am OUT easily available online. That kind of access to my life, and certainty of when I'm away from the house, would worry me...a lot.

It makes a lot more sense for businesses, like hair-dressers or dog-washers, or others that are scheduling into a business location, to let folks access their own timing, but I just don't think I'd like to let people into my face that much!

If...and a big IF...I let folks schedule online; I would probably agree that demanding a credit-card deposit or number would reduce the 'false-positive' scheduling by idiot 15-yr. olds with too much time on their hands.

You're right! Business practices would have to change. I'm quite happy to have my darling wife as the office/store manager. But, that 'old-fashioned' business model ain't the wave of the future!

Mumbling,
'Yes, dear',
I remain,
_________________________
Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT
Oregon Coast Piano Services
TunerJeff440@aol.com

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