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#1893700 - 05/08/12 06:38 PM A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners
RUSS SHETTLE Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 297
Loc: Brandywine, Maryland
Just ordered the CP5 and waiting on delivery. I downloaded the instructions and looked through it. I got lost and confused reviewing the instructions. It looks like it's going to be a nightmear to figure out how to just to play anything.

Tell me anyone, is it really not all that bad to figure out and operate? Are there alternative guide charts somewhere in addition to Yamaha's instruction booklet?

Russ


Edited by RUSS SHETTLE (05/08/12 06:40 PM)
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#1893710 - 05/08/12 06:52 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
... one thing to remember, you will receive different results by simply pressing a button or holding the button down for a second or so before releasing.

That was mentioned in the manual but it was not underlined, either literally or figuratively.

It is not an intuitive keyboard but my introductory sentence should help a little. smile
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#1893712 - 05/08/12 07:00 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
RUSS SHETTLE Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 297
Loc: Brandywine, Maryland
Thanks Dave,

I remember reading that but I did not catch on nor do I have a clue as to what each did or meant. I assume it's just a function toggle. I don't have it yet so I can't learn by experimentation but let me ask you this:

If I totally screw up the settings and get lost, can I simply "reset" everything and start over? Do you know?
_________________________
Russ
Yamaha CP5
Casio PX130
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#1893713 - 05/08/12 07:01 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 715
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
I consider myself very good at working with various software, gadgets, user interfaces, etc (I work as a software engineer) and usually it takes me just few minutes to figure out how to work with a synthesizer, etc without looking at the manual. Not with the CP5. First time I tried it in a shop, I got some pretty hard time realizing what is what. I felt like a granny in front of her email program laugh This is just ridiculous... On the other hand CP5 is arguably among the best stage pianos money can buy.


Edited by CyberGene (05/08/12 07:01 PM)
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#1893723 - 05/08/12 07:27 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
RUSS SHETTLE Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 297
Loc: Brandywine, Maryland
I think the instructions make for the problem. Too many pages, too drawn-out. Just give me a simple block charted diagram showing samples of some common settings. Did anyone make up somthing like that they would like to sell to me for money? I intend to learn it so I'm not going to let it be dissapointing. I wanted the CP5 and I knew it would be a challange to operate.
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Yamaha CP5
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#1893726 - 05/08/12 07:33 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: CyberGene
First time I tried it in a shop, I got some pretty hard time realizing what is what. I felt like a granny in front of her email program laugh This is just ridiculous...

The CP5 struck me the same way when I first encountered it at GC - I remember the internal rhythm drum track started playing loudly the minute I touched an ivory, and none of the buttons, switches, LEDs, or displays gave me a clue as to how to stop it, what mode it was in, or what the heck was going on. I felt like a complete idiot. Kind of like every time I tried to do anything other than the very shallowest of dives in our Motif Rack ES: power cycle and pray I didn't change something non-volatile. Everything we buy now I look the UI in the mouth.

The RD-700NX in comparison has only a few secret handshake type things going on, I easily stumbled across most of its features just by poking around with no manual. One of the things they don't tell you in the NX manual is you can save edited sounds by just by mashing and holding its voice button (shades I suppose of the CP5!).
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#1893736 - 05/08/12 07:46 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9012
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Yes, I recall exactly the same thing happened to me!

The drum rhythm track started playing, and I couldn't find a way to make it stop...so I just did a power cycle.

After that I spent a little time playing around with the interface, and recalled Dave's note about holding certain buttons to access additional features/settings. Eventually I was able to select individual sounds and adjust parameters.

The CP5 is a really great board, and I expect once you find your way around the interface it's reasonably easy to control. However, for the uninitiated, I'm sure it can feel pretty bewildering. I wonder if this is one of the reason some of the larger musical instrument chains have pulled the product from their stores?

Cheers,
James
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#1893737 - 05/08/12 07:52 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
RUSS SHETTLE Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 297
Loc: Brandywine, Maryland
I wonder how long? This has likely become a common complaint about the C1, C5 and C50. If it is, why didn't Yamaha change the design of the user interface, I wonder? From all my research, I do believe the CP5 is one of the best sounding stage DP's on the market and the reason I ordered one. I'm mostly interested in the grand piano sounds layered with strings. We'll see. I can always send it back for a different model but I really don't want that to happen. I'll first search high and low for instructions written from third party sources and perhpas some U-tube instructions as well.
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Yamaha CP5
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#1893802 - 05/08/12 09:51 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
Wes Lachot Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Russ,

It's not as bad as it's made out to be. I recently bought a CP50, read the manuals, and I actually like the user interface quite a bit. It's nowhere as deep as a Motif or something like that with tons of pages of controls. I feel like it's a real nice balance of control and simplicity.

The trick is that it's laid out in what they call "blocks". There's the voice block where you choose a voice (piano, Rhodes, B3, or whatever), then a preamp block, then an effects block, a power amp block, the part block, then a reverb block, and a compressor block. It's as if you had all of these hardware gadgets lined up one after the other - typical signal flow stuff.

Let's say you have a Rhodes sound. The voice block is where you would choose that voice as opposed to a string voice or whatever.

The next block - the preamp block - allows you to adjust the sort of things that would be on the Rhodes itself, like the bass and treble knobs, the vibrato, the gain, and the position of the pickup. (This is not meant to be comprehensive - just an example.)

Then in the effects block you could insert one of a bunch of effects - eqs, compressors, chorus, echo, pitch shift, etc.

Then the power amp block allows you to set up a simulated amp sound appropriate to the voice. There are ones especially made for electric pianos, or you have simulated Fenders and Marshalls, etc. Or - here's the cool thing about the CP5 - you can use this block to insert another effect instead of a simulated amp. So if you chose a chorus effect in the effects block, you could choose an eq or whatever in the power amp block. (The CP50 does not have the power amp block.)

At this point the sound is assigned to a "part". There are 4 parts in the CP5, so that you could set up 4 different sounds as I just described, then layer them or split them across the keyboard. The part block allows you to set parameters like tuning, key range, midi stuff, volume, panning, reverb send, and a whole bunch of synth-like parameters like envelope, resonance, filter cutoff, etc. It's really a lot like an old-school synth in this regard, only starting with samples rather than basic waveforms. So there's lots of power to really mess with the sounds.

The last two blocks - reverb and compressor blocks - work on all 4 sounds together. You choose one type of global reverb and one type of global compressor for the keyboard as a whole.

That's it basically. Of course there are utility pages and common parameter pages for things like naming sounds, but the basic architecture is pretty simple.

There are two things that can be a bit confusing at first:

1) The blocks should have been laid out left to right exactly as they happen internally, and while they're sort of that way, they are not strictly - a couple of them appear visually out of order. Two demerits for the Yamaha UI engineers. What the heck, let's make it 3 demerits for good measure.

2) All of those labels on the right side that say "piano", "strings", "brass", etc. don't really apply when you are choosing a "performance". Oops, I forgot to tell you what a performance is. It's an entire setup of the 4 voices, ready to go for a gig or whatever. When you call up those performance presets at a gig, the brass will not be under the brass button, and so on, unless of course you arrange your own user banks in that fashion. I've thought about doing that, but then at a gig it's usually too dark to read that stuff anyway, and I just like to lay it out in the order I'm most likely to need sounds: piano on the first button, then maybe Rhodes, Wurly, organ, clav, and flute. (Yeah I'm a Beatles head, so I always need to have my simulated Mellotron sound ready to go.)

So now we're up to a half dozen demerits. But I love this keyboard.

Hope this helps. It's a killer ax - you're going to love it.

-Wes



Edited by Wes Lachot (05/09/12 08:33 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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#1893826 - 05/08/12 10:30 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9012
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Great explanation Wes!

James
x
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1893845 - 05/08/12 11:35 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: Kawai James]
Wes Lachot Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Thanks, James. Like I said, it's really not that hard. For anyone who's having a bad day with the UI of a CP5, here's what I suggest as a moral booster. Go online and download the manual for a Motif, for a lesson in contrasts. Take a deep breath and see if you can memorize all of the so-called "modes" on the thing; I mean you need to know the modes, right, because that's how the keyboard architecture is organized. Let's see, there's voice play mode, voice edit mode, voice job mode, voice store mode, performance play mode, performance edit mode, performance job mode, performance store mode, sampling record mode, sampling edit mode, sampling job mode, utility job mode...

Whew! And we're just getting started. There's also song play mode, song edit mode, song record mode, song job mode, song mixing mode, song mixing edit mode, song mixing job mode, song mixing store mode, mixing voice edit mode, mixing voice job mode, mixing voice store mode, pattern play mode, pattern edit mode, and on and on and on. My head starts to spin every time I open the Motif manual.

So now, after spending a few minutes with the Motif manual, read through the CP50 manuals (both of them, plus the data list), and I promise you, it will seem like a piece of cake.

-Wes
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#1893923 - 05/09/12 02:57 AM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
If I totally screw up the settings and get lost, can I simply "reset" everything and start over? Do you know?

Yes.
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#1893924 - 05/09/12 03:01 AM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: Wes Lachot]
Manolios Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Germany
Thanks Wes thumb

I finally got it now, after owning the CP5 more than a year or so... grin

RTFM...I know LOL

I'm kidding, of course, I think the CP5 is really not that complicated, though it might be a little weird at the beginning for people used to the "Roland-language" and other manufacturers.

You explained it really great. It would have been great, if the CP5 manual had an introduction or summary like yours.

Best,
Manolios


Edited by Manolios (05/09/12 03:02 AM)

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#1893933 - 05/09/12 03:47 AM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
madAhorn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 23
I loved Wes's explanation as well!

Dumb question...what do you press to get to use the category sounds?
All I could muster was selecting performances in the store...

(my CP5 arrives later this week. They ordered me a new one at the local store...they only had a floor model.)

Amazing Price by the way!!!


Edited by madAhorn (05/09/12 04:16 AM)

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#1893935 - 05/09/12 03:55 AM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: madAhorn]
Manolios Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: madAhorn
Dumb question...what do you press to get to use the category sounds?


Hi madAhorn,

there's no such thing like a dumb question: I think you press the "voice" button, to get to the category page. I'm not in front of my CP5 right now but I think that's it.

It's a heck of a live board, BTW. I think you made a great choice. While I was not crazy about some of the factory presets at first, I managed to get great sounds out of it after some tweaking. This board is definitely a keeper. And, may I add, I LOVE the action for live playing.

May I ask how much you did pay for you CP5?


Edited by Manolios (05/09/12 03:56 AM)

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#1893939 - 05/09/12 04:14 AM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
madAhorn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 23
I almost made an entry on the price paid thread, but I would rather not put pressure on the local store to match my price. They were selling a floor model to me for $1900.00 no tax. But they decided to order me a brand new one at the same price! No tax or shipping!

Happy me!

Yes, the keybed is the best for me too.

Do you have any patches you can share?

Thanks!


Edited by madAhorn (05/09/12 04:15 AM)

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#1893944 - 05/09/12 04:28 AM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: madAhorn]
Manolios Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: madAhorn
I almost made an entry on the price paid thread, but I would rather not put pressure on the local store to match my price. They were selling a floor model to me for $1900.00 no tax. But they decided to order me a brand new one at the same price! No tax or shipping!

Happy me!

Yes, the keybed is the best for me too.

Do you have any patches you can share?

Thanks!



Wow, good price indeed.

Sent you a PM

Best,
Manolios

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#1893946 - 05/09/12 04:38 AM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
andi85 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 90
Loc: Germany
You did yourself a big favor with the CP5 :-)

What helped me to get a basic idea were several promo videos online. But with Wes' introduction you should be fine.

Have fun with your CP5!
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Andreas

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#1894455 - 05/09/12 10:27 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: andi85]
Wes Lachot Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
In the explanation of the CP5 architecture above, I stated that there are 4 "parts", which is not strictly true. I was trying to keep things simple, and while there are 4 keyboard parts for each performance, there are two additional voices: backing track and microphone.

The backing track part can be a wave file or a prefab drum beat. I've seen in several threads where folks were wondering what's up with the drums. They are in fact pretty basic - just 100 prefab rhythms in various styles. There are 14 different "kits", so I guess theoretically that gives you 1400 permutations of kits and beats, but it's unlikely you'll want to use the hip-hop drum kit with the country beat, or whatever. Or maybe you would. Anyway, it's not for programming your own beats, just a glorified old-school rhythm machine. I like it though, for practicing.

-Wes
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#1894463 - 05/09/12 10:48 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: Wes Lachot]
Manolios Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Germany
Hi Wes,

yeah, the styles are great for songwriting too, for jamming around with some ideas.

if you keep it this way, adding information and explanantions, you could rewrite the user manual. Or write a new, better quick guide. laugh

Kind regards,
Manolios

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#1895042 - 05/10/12 09:16 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
RUSS SHETTLE Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 297
Loc: Brandywine, Maryland
To Wes.

I'm getting back to you rather late but I want to thank you for that fantastic overview. My CP5 will arrive next week and here I've been trying to understand it by the literature alone before it arrives. Your explanation has certainly helped my understanding so far. I would like to ask you one question:

I like layering strings with piano. From your explanation, It sounds like I would use the "Parts" block section to make that piano/strings layer. Is that correct? What's confusing is the setting of the primary voice (piano). Strings would just be the layered addition. Of course, I guess strings could be the primary voice where you layer piano instead but I thought I read that layering was only possible with the piano voices unless I've confused with something else. To layer piano with strings do I use two parts or just one (adding the strings)? And does it matter if you use Left1 Left2 vs Left1 with Right1. That labeling in the Parts Block, I don't understand. What's with the left left right right? Why LL and RR? Why not just 4 parts like: 1p 2p 3p 4p?

Anyway, I guess it will all fall into place when I finally get my CP5.

By the way: My fist DP and the only one I play now is a Casio PX130. Low end I know but not bad for the money. I've had it for a year, but now I want a professional grade DP for saving up all my pennies and I think the CP5 fills that bill. Though sort of loose and gappy, I do like the weight of the keys on the PX130. If you know, will the CP5 be similar in weight on its keys?

You guessed it: I bought the CP5 based on much review and I have never tried it out. Regardless, I'm going to love it and learn how to use it no matter what. I have an expensive pair of AKG headphones and will soon be looking for speakers. I don't play in a band these days but I use to be in a band. For now, my CP5 is strictly for home fun use. I wanted a stage piano rather than a console. I have an old Yamaha upright AP but it's always out of tune. For staying in tune, nothing beats a good DP!!!!!

Russ
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Yamaha CP5
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#1895089 - 05/10/12 11:44 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: RUSS SHETTLE
You guessed it: I bought the CP5 based on much review and I have never tried it out. Regardless, I'm going to love it and learn how to use it no matter what.

Godspeed Russ!

And please let us know what you think about the CP5 after you've spent some time quality with it.
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#1895094 - 05/11/12 12:16 AM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
RUSS SHETTLE Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 297
Loc: Brandywine, Maryland
I sure will. Can't wait. I've never been this excited before but then again, I've never purchase a high-end instrument such as this before. I should see it by Wed next week. I may not be getting much sleep for a while but I'll keep ya posted.

Russ
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Yamaha CP5
Casio PX130
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#1895099 - 05/11/12 12:32 AM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
Wes Lachot Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
Russ,

Your question "why not just 4 parts like 1p 2p 3p 4p" is a good one. I think maybe Yamaha was trying to make it seem simpler by calling the left 1, left 2, right 1, and right 2.

Don't worry, you can layer any sound you want, not just pianos. You will need to use one part per voice, so if for instance you wanted to layer Rhodes with Moog, you could use L1 and L2 to do that. Meanwhile, you could layer piano and organ with R1 and R2, or any 2 voices that you want to layer. Then you could split the keyboard so that, let's say, the Rhodes/Moog layered sound is on the left and the piano/organ sound is on the right. You can set the split point, of course, to any key you want, and they can overlap.

I don't know anything about the key weight of the Casio PX130 - sorry.

I hope you enjoy your CP5 - good luck.

-Wes
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#1895100 - 05/11/12 12:36 AM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
Manolios Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: RUSS SHETTLE
To Wes.

I like layering strings with piano. From your explanation, It sounds like I would use the "Parts" block section to make that piano/strings layer. Is that correct? What's confusing is the setting of the primary voice (piano). Strings would just be the layered addition. Of course, I guess strings could be the primary voice where you layer piano instead but I thought I read that layering was only possible with the piano voices unless I've confused with something else. To layer piano with strings do I use two parts or just one (adding the strings)? And does it matter if you use Left1 Left2 vs Left1 with Right1. That labeling in the Parts Block, I don't understand. What's with the left left right right? Why LL and RR? Why not just 4 parts like: 1p 2p 3p 4p?


You guessed it: I bought the CP5 based on much review and I have never tried it out. Regardless, I'm going to love it and learn how to use it no matter what. I have an expensive pair of AKG headphones and will soon be looking for speakers. I don't play in a band these days but I use to be in a band. For now, my CP5 is strictly for home fun use. I wanted a stage piano rather than a console. I have an old Yamaha upright AP but it's always out of tune. For staying in tune, nothing beats a good DP!!!!!

Russ



Hi Russ,

first af all, congrats, you'll love the CP5.

As for the layering thing: No, it doesn't matter if you use R1, R2, L1 or L2, you can layer all sorts of sounds without limitation to piano and strings or piano being the only voice that can be layered with strings. There really are no limitations here, you can organize yourself a "layer orgy".

I think the labeling thing for the L1L1 and R1R1 is purely for organizational issues, for getting oriented faster ( live situations), when you want or have to switch/mute/alter volume for the different zones and sounds.

Best,
Manolios

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#1895359 - 05/11/12 01:06 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
RUSS SHETTLE Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 297
Loc: Brandywine, Maryland
Thanks Manolios and Wess and everyone else. I'm going to keep all this info available and guess what?

I just got called by the shipping company. IT'S ARRIVING MONDAY! This is truly exciting and I have all your given info to refer to, so grateful and more than I could ask for. I'll probably have questions later after I've played around a while to see what I can do on my own but you guys have got me way ahead of the learning curve. Most appreciated. I'll get back soon.

BTW: Thanks for clarifying the R1 through L2. I'm also thinking that R and the L settings is where you chose the split, sound wise, not keyboard. I know I can choose the split location by what key I press. Anyway, if what I suspect is true, them it would make some sense as to why you have L1 L2 with R1 and R2. BTW Wess, you pointed out the other two (Part) knobs for the Mike input and the other. They do make sense to me.

Russ
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Russ
Yamaha CP5
Casio PX130
Yamaha AP Upright

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#1896038 - 05/13/12 05:33 AM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Almost bought a CP1 myself (not a CP5) at one point, although that quickly changed into getting the V, since it has the easiest control panel to use.

Sometimes keeping it simple says it all.

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#1896154 - 05/13/12 12:24 PM Re: A plea to Yamaha CP5 owners [Re: pv88]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: pv88
Almost bought a CP1 myself (not a CP5) at one point, although that quickly changed into getting the V, since it has the easiest control panel to use.


Yes, the V-Piano is beautifully simple and very intuitive to use. Given the vast number of tweakable parameters it is amazing that it is not a more intimidating thing to use.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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