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Topic Options
#1895664 - 05/12/12 08:11 AM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: maclum]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1779
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: maclum
Hi we have decided to go with the Casio ap 620. The key action and cabinet style is perfect for our needs.


It sounds like you played it, then. Good.

Congratulations to you and your family.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#1895682 - 05/12/12 09:38 AM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: maclum]
leemax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/10
Posts: 501
Loc: pacific nw, usa
I came kind of late to this thread, but I'll just chime in and say that I think you made the right decision. I have owned an AP620 that I got about 1 1/2 years ago and I am very pleased with it. I hooked up some M Audio BX5-A external monitors which make it sound a whole lot better. The onboard speakers on DPs rarely sound very good, I have found. (FWIW, I have played piano off and on for about 50 years, both APs and DPs of varying quality levels, so I've got some basis for comparison.)

In any case, congrats on the purchase!
_________________________
Lee

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#1895708 - 05/12/12 10:50 AM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: leemax]
maclum Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 57
Good to know Lee, what should I be looking for in a external speaker? I will probably search CL for used.

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#1895778 - 05/12/12 02:29 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: maclum]
maclum Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 57
Just one more note I am buying from ARIZONA PIANO WHOLESALE recommended in this forum because of a great price, additional customized music library that they offer for teaching purposes, and I just like supporting small businesses when I can. But Guitar Center are crazy aggressive with their prices and offered $1200 after tax if a purchased this weekend. Seems like a good time to buy.

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#1895790 - 05/12/12 03:01 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: maclum]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: maclum
Just one more note I am buying from ARIZONA PIANO WHOLESALE recommended in this forum because of a great price, additional customized music library that they offer for teaching purposes, and I just like supporting small businesses when I can. But Guitar Center are crazy aggressive with their prices and offered $1200 after tax if a purchased this weekend. Seems like a good time to buy.


Was it the same place that gave you this advice?

Quote:

I was told by a expert that the casio ap620 will provide better fun for the kids, and similar sound quality for much less.


If you look at his reviews, he really only recommends stuff he sells and doesn't recommend anything he doesn't sell. Even if something doesn't get listed as "not recommended", he'll say to look at something similar he does sell. He doesn't appear to sell Yamaha or Roland and doesn't recommend any of their products and instead steers people to products he does sell. Seems pretty shady to me.

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#1895791 - 05/12/12 03:05 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: maclum]
immuno Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By: maclum
But Guitar Center are crazy aggressive with their prices and offered $1200 after tax if a purchased this weekend. Seems like a good time to buy.


Of course. In this economy, it's a buyer's market. Luxury items like pianos aren't selling well, despite what you see in this forum.

Even that seller at AZ Piano Wholesale is probably desperate in this economy, though he won't admit it.

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#1895793 - 05/12/12 03:12 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: Lefty Chev]
maclum Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 57
Yes he was the expert I quoted, he seemed pretty honest and above board??? I liked that fact that he was a music teacher as well, seemed to be a perfect combination for what we were looking for.

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#1895799 - 05/12/12 03:28 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: maclum]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
[Edited]

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#1895802 - 05/12/12 03:32 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: pv88]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3521
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Yes, even if you have unknowingly received some bias, doesn't mean you won't be perfectly happy.

General comment: Internet reviews are really the perfect way to make yourself insane when you are shopping for something!

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#1895806 - 05/12/12 03:38 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: ando]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
[Edited]

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#1895808 - 05/12/12 03:43 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: pv88]
maclum Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 57
Thanks it was Tim, I originally I asked about the Kawai CE220, or clp 430. He could of pushed the Kawai which was more expensive than the Casio(which he also sells) but he recommended the Casio (which was the least expensive) because the quality was similar but the functionality that I wanted for the kids was better.

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#1895812 - 05/12/12 03:53 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: maclum]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
[Edited]

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#1895817 - 05/12/12 04:01 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: pv88]
maclum Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 57
Hi just a quick note the price I quoted was for the Guitar center, not Tim, I don't mind quoting guitar centers offer because they are a public retailer.

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#1895819 - 05/12/12 04:04 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: ando]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: ando
Yes, even if you have unknowingly received some bias, doesn't mean you won't be perfectly happy.

General comment: Internet reviews are really the perfect way to make yourself insane when you are shopping for something!


Yes, I didn't mean to imply that you didn't make the right choice or that you didn't get a good deal. It sounds like you did your homework.

My comment was more a reaction to comming across his review web site which steers people to only the products he sells without really disclosing that he's a dealer or that he doesn't sell the products he advises against. He also advises against some digital pianos that have a pretty broad consensus as best in class in favor of products that he sells.

To me that's shady at best.

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#1895850 - 05/12/12 05:08 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: maclum]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
[Edited]

Quote below this post* has been changed to:

"The short decay in the Casio AP-620 will definitely be noticed by advanced players as it is not sufficient for sustaining long melodic lines and heavier chordal passages."

*[I agree with "dmd" below.]

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#1895888 - 05/12/12 07:22 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: pv88]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1779
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: pv88
even though some have said that it has too short of a "decay" with regards to resonance is just nit picking on a minor detail that most players aren't going to notice.


Well, I beg to differ with you on the
Quote:
aren't going to notice
part.

I made the mistake of going by the hype on the internet about the AP620, purchased it, put it together, and sold it all in the same week (at a considerable loss).

I am nothing special as a piano player, but I could not live with the decay issue. In fairness, the person I sold it to ... tried it and loved it and drove away with it a very happy person. In my opinion, it is fine for fast, banging, type of music but not slow, delicate classical pieces.

It will be "fun" for the kids, but I have my doubts with any serious playing.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#1895896 - 05/12/12 07:54 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: Lefty Chev]
maclum Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 57
Originally Posted By: Lefty Chev
Originally Posted By: ando
Yes, even if you have unknowingly received some bias, doesn't mean you won't be perfectly happy.

General comment: Internet reviews are really the perfect way to make yourself insane when you are shopping for something!


Yes, I didn't mean to imply that you didn't make the right choice or that you didn't get a good deal. It sounds like you did your homework.

My comment was more a reaction to comming across his review web site which steers people to only the products he sells without really disclosing that he's a dealer or that he doesn't sell the products he advises against. He also advises against some digital pianos that have a pretty broad consensus as best in class in favor of products that he sells.

To me that's shady at best.


Well in the end we can only judge him by how he behaves, so far he has been upfront and honest, I will update you once I have the DP

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#1895898 - 05/12/12 07:57 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: dmd]
maclum Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 57
Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: pv88
even though some have said that it has too short of a "decay" with regards to resonance is just nit picking on a minor detail that most players aren't going to notice.


Well, I beg to differ with you on the
Quote:
aren't going to notice
part.

I made the mistake of going by the hype on the internet about the AP620, purchased it, put it together, and sold it all in the same week (at a considerable loss).

I am nothing special as a piano player, but I could not live with the decay issue. In fairness, the person I sold it to ... tried it and loved it and drove away with it a very happy person. In my opinion, it is fine for fast, banging, type of music but not slow, delicate classical pieces.

It will be "fun" for the kids, but I have my doubts with any serious playing.



I wish I knew what decay is, then I could get more worried. It will be a pity if the slow delicate classical pieces suffer because that it my personal preference but in the end it is for my kids education so I am willing to make that compromise so that they can have the chance to explore all music options beyond the piano.

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#1895907 - 05/12/12 08:13 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: maclum]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
[Edited]

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#1895933 - 05/12/12 09:23 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: maclum]
galaxy4t Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 852
Loc: Lakewood, CA
You probably won't notice or care much about the sustaining of notes. Most digitals even if they have long decay do not sound natural because of looping which becomes very obvious in order to sustain the note. What it comes down to with a digital is that you are playing a sampled tone instead of actually striking a string like on an acoustic. Since the sound is produced electronically instead of naturally, there are limitations on how it can be reproduced faithfully. Also the piano samples are layered meaning that the notes are recorded at different velocity levels (3 or 4 layers is common) which limits the dynamic range of all digitals. If you become concerned or maybe tired of the sample of your digital, you can connect the piano to a computer and use a software synth called a VST which has much better sound and dynamic range. This is what most of us do when we get tired of our digital piano internal sound.

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#1895944 - 05/12/12 10:01 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: galaxy4t]
maclum Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 57
Wow you guys really know your stuff, but I think the decision is actually very easy. For around 1200 can you get a DP with better piano acoustics and same degree of functionality as the AP620? If so I would like to know what it is and I will buy it.

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#1895968 - 05/12/12 11:20 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: maclum]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
[Edited]

Quoted post below has been changed to this:

"The Kawai EP3/ES7 is a better choice than the AP-620, since the Kawai's have far better tonal decay and harmonic resonance."

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#1895970 - 05/12/12 11:32 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: pv88]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: pv88
@maclum,

No, you can't get a better digital than the AP-620, in the $1,200 range.

I would buy it now, unless you change your mind again and want to spend a lot more money than this. You can always spend more, but you won't find a better digital at this price!


Other than the furniture quality cabinet, is the AP620 much different than the PX-330?

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#1895976 - 05/12/12 11:49 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: Lefty Chev]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
[Edited]

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#1895977 - 05/12/12 11:57 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: pv88]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: pv88
@Lefty Chev,

I can't really say for sure on that, although I did previously own a Casio PX-130 (not a 330), and, there is no doubt that the action has a much more solid feel in the wooden cabinet, and, there are no issues whatsoever in regards to key noise or side play. The PX-130's keys just felt lighter overall and that is probably on account of them being in the smaller (and, far less heavy) shell.

The pedals are very solid by the way, and, offer good resistance almost like on a grand piano. I also asked Mike Martin (of Casio) as to what samples were being used in the PX-130, and, he said it was "Steinway D." Did confirm the same sample sets for the other models, too.

Also, the original poster can make his own decisions in the end, although I don't think a better digital will be found for less than $1,200.

That's all I have, for now... too much typing, as it is!


I was under the impression that all the actions on all the Casio's were the same, so if the OP wanted to spend less and didn't care about the furniture like case, they could get a PX-330 with the stand and pedal unit for cheaper.

I also believe that the Yamaha P155 gets a lot of love in the $1000 range, but that doesn't come with the case/stand and it doesn't have an extensive amount sounds to play around with. The trade off would be better action and main piano sound but loosing the bells and whistles along with a furniture like quality. There is a $100 stand though.

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#1895985 - 05/13/12 12:37 AM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: pv88]
maclum Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 57
Originally Posted By: pv88
@maclum,

No, you can't get a better digital than the AP-620, in the $1,200 range.

I would buy it now, unless you change your mind again and want to spend a lot more money than this. You can always spend more, but you won't find a better digital at this price!

Please note:

Starting at $2,000, and up, you can look at many of the stage pianos from both Yamaha and Roland, although they may not have all of the features of the Casio, plus you will have to add a stand, an extra sustain pedal, and, a bench. Some of these stage pianos don't even have a music rest to place your music books on, or, built in speakers, meaning that you have add these items, and...

You already have all of these features/accessories in the Casio AP-620. Just assemble your piano when it arrives, and, you're ready to go.

So, do you still want to spend more money?


No!!!!!!!

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#1896020 - 05/13/12 03:32 AM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: pv88]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
[Edited]

Have confirmed that the Kawai EP3/ES7 is a better choice than either the Casio AP-620 (or, AP-650) due to the better tonal decay and harmonic resonance.

No longer recommend the Casio, as mentioned in the quote above.

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#1896090 - 05/13/12 09:47 AM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: maclum]
leemax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/10
Posts: 501
Loc: pacific nw, usa
I'll jump in again on the side of the 620 re: the decay issue. When I read that some people had issues with decaly length I went and timed the decay on mine. The bass notes take longer to decay than the treble, as on an acoustic piano, with the bass notes taking a little over 20 seconds to fade out and the trebles around 15 seconds. That is every bit as long as many acoustics, and far longer than any standard piece of music would require. As for "looping", it is not an issue for me. There is a pulse on a sustained note, again similar to what you would hear on an AP, but every note has a different rate of that pulse so if you are sustaining a chord those pulses, or beats, or whatever, combine and create a very complex pattern that is unique to whatever combination of notes you are holding. Again, in most actual literature, decay and looping would seldom have time to be heard since notes simply aren't sustained for 10 or 15 seconds. Since getting my 620 I have played a number of other DPs, including high end Rolands and Yamahas, (using my own headphones) and I prefer the sound and feel of my 620 to them.
One other thing I like is that, especially through headphones, there is a very realistic sound of the hammers hitting the backcheck, especially on the higher notes. That sort of "thunk", especially when you hit the key a little harder. It adds to the satisfaction and realism of it.
Enjoy! Let us know what you think when you have it. (also, I still like the M-Audio BX5a monitors, but I don't have a lot of experience with others.)
_________________________
Lee

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#1896259 - 05/13/12 03:58 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: pv88]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
[Edited]

Reply to post, above:

Note that 15 and 20 second decays in digital piano samples (Casio, or, otherwise) are far too short as compared with a real acoustic grand piano.

Only the Roland V-Piano & Kawai CA95 can simulate the longer decay times.

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#1896373 - 05/13/12 08:40 PM Re: New casio ap620 versus yamaha cvp 700 [Re: pv88]
maclum Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 57
Your not going to believe this but before I signed the purchase order for the Casio I gave the Yamaha dealer a courtesy call (he was a great guy and showed the whole family his full range including a 1.5 million grand). The dealer (who is one of the best sales persons I have every met, and not in a sleazy way) then offered a additional and significant discount of the CLP-430 from the 2k he quoted. The discount is enough that price is not longer a issue in comparing it to the casio ap620 and it comes down to is the functionality of the casio worth more to us than the the real or perceived better sound quality and key action of the yamaha. I am getting a bit sick of dithering around with this decision so I will take one more look at the difference tonight and make a decision tomorrow. Thanks for your help everyone I really appreciate it.

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