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Do you read what I write? I think not.

Hi Dave,

I went back and read your other thread here about your problems with your piano. I did not see any pictures in that thread, unless I overlooked them.

Also, several of our dealer members here were very helpful to you in that thread, as they have tried to be in this one... If nothing tangible has been done, it is not because many here on this forum have not tried to help as best they could.

And, we do sympathize with your situation...

Not sure what else to say, other than I wish for you the best outcome possible.

Rick

I don't care.

I just thank Seeker that helped me with very polite private messages on this forum.

He believed me and he had some pictures of my piano without any problems.

I just cannot make myself put on a trial this way. The "murderer" it's not me.

Best regards.

Dave:

I and many others here believe you too.

The only way to be of more effective help is to get a pictural view of what is actually happening.

I recently used some pictures about a piano myself and was very grateful for the help I received.

There's many helpful & knowledgeable people here: pictures speak volumes, even if they don't appear to you.

I tried to find some of yours in the archives but couldn't find them.

Would you be kind enough to publish [or pm] them again?

Many thanks,

Norbert

It's clear that there is a problem here. He's asking for a keyboard direct from the factory, and is willing to pay for it, but Brodmann is unable to supply him with one. Why is that? Why is it taking them a year to provide something they should have in stock, or is it that the 212 that he bought a prototype that now has a different action?

If it is NOT the same action that they currently use, then I can see the delay and/or reluctance to providing him one. But I also think it is time now for Brodmann personal to at least clarify what their position is, rather than have Dave think that something more sinister (aside from the dealer) is happening. I'm sure Brodmann would like a happy ending to this too, wouldn't they?

I don’t believe anyone is putting the OP on trial here, some are asking for further information by way of photos.

Just so I understand this completely;

Dave has shown photos to the factory.

Apparently someone by the name of Mr. Kraus has emailed in private and has been offered photos to view.

Surely an incorrectly sawn keyboard can be shown here, along with incorrectly squared off key set; after all, it was shown to others. Easy to show these things by way of photos, along with the messed up hammer set.

But when asked to show photos of the specific problem, or multiple problems here in this thread suddenly offense is taken and now there is to be no more discussion according to the OP.

How any of this becomes offensive or makes the OP, in his characterization, a murderer, is beyond me.

Thank You, I'm very grateful for your words.

Differently from they are thinking, I'm just starting to do my interests like them because some dealers and technicians have the bad habit of passing customers for fools.

They try to protect their category, I have to do the same with mine: the customer.

It's the last time I repeat that the keyboard, the action and the hammers have been RE-WORKED by qualified technicians and there's nothing to see in a picture if not common grand piano parts: you have to ANALIZE technically with proper tools and sincerity (if You have one) and then perhaps you could find that something is totally in the wrong place.

Are you technicians, aren't You? So I know that You see what I mean.

That's why I asked something concrete to the factory: just a new keyboard with price charge and they have promised it.

I haven't requested technical support, opinions, annoyances, absurd claims even to prevent more wasting time and money.

Just a normal, common replacement keyboard. That's all.



For the rest, I don't want to RE-publish any pictures of my piano because I don't care: I was here trying to figure out if the company has made honest and sincere promises and correct suggestions or not.

The truth is that you just want to watch in my pants to protect the brands that You sell.


It is reasonable to feel that the factory has led that "senseless" policy since from the start and if the promises will be really broken, my technicians are ready to inform Europiano Foundation.

I think it would be nice for someone from Brodmann to at least inspect the piano. Our original poster has spent a lot of time and money trying to put this piano right and he is at the end of what he can bear with it.

We've established that the dealer was in the wrong in the first place, and the piano should be covered by the factory warranty whether or not the dealer pays the factory. The consumer bought in good faith - that is basically what a court in the U.K. would say to that. However, we're not talking about the U.K and I have no idea what the Italian courts would say about this.

The bottom line though, is, can the original poster not just pay Brodmann to come and fit a new keyboard to his piano?

Sometimes, pianos leave factories and mistakes have been made in the manufacture. Perhaps the dealer sold a different 212 to the one that Dave played in the showroom, knowing that there was a problem with it (maybe that was part of the reason for the low price). Surely then, Brodmann could just honour the request and send a technician out. Austria and Italy aren't so far apart after all! At one time, parts of Italy were in the same empire ;-)

Davehammerklavier, we are taking you seriously, it's just that many people are astounded by what happened with your piano and that is why there is an air of disbelief. Brodmann is a good make for the money and most people have had no problems.

I agree. A friend of mine has no problem and he has showed me his piano parts: his keyboard is perfectly sawn and working.

BUT, I just want a shipped keyboard because if I have to wait the factory technician (believe me, I tried also this way), I'll have to wait another year (with the unfortunate possibility that he could say "good keyboard"...!)

One year has elapsed, not few days.

The insult to the injury. No, thanks.

They are just dishonest.

The problem started with "soft hammers" and has progressed to "bad keyboard." That is suspicious in itself.

Even if there might be a warranty claim here, it has to be proven. There are two sides the to every story, and we have only heard one, and it is inconsistent. Sometimes these stories are cases of PEBKAC.

You are right.

But like many in this topic, you loose the fact that outside this topic (which is made of words) there are facts and Europiano members are involved (and shamed).

Think what you feel it's right. I do the same.

It started with the hammers and finished with the bad keyboard just because life is not simple, but complex.

(anyway, please: before speaking, read all the passages of a conversation trying to undestand not only the ones that are more comfortable to you, but all...)

Well, you care enough to endure and comment in 4 pages of a forum thread.



PianoWorld and its members do not set any policy for Brodman Piano Co. If there is to be a determination that the company has made honest and sincere promises those things will not be found here in these pages. Try the court system in Italy for these kinds of answers.



So far no posting I have read is deliberately offensive to you as this posting is to other members.

So, there are to be no photos. This is not a problem. Please have one of the several technicians you have had inspect this instrument chime in here to discuss the findings. That way the technicians on this board can fully understand the problems you are experiencing.

I've kindly asked to delete this topic.

Read (and think) before speaking.

Hi again, Dave,

I know there is a slight language barrier here, but I’m struggling with the concept of your keyboard/action being improperly sawn? In what way?

For example, the keyboard/action on my grand piano is not perfectly/symmetrically positioned either… in other words, the action rail is not positioned perfectly centered on the rectangular keyboard; it is offset just a little so that if you look down the hammer line, it is not perfectly in line with the keyboard edges. But when in the piano, the hammers are correctly aligned with the strings at the proper angle.

Are you saying the hammer strike point is not correct once the keyboard/action is in your piano?

I’m just trying to fully understand the problem. This is where the photos would be beneficial to all of us.

Rick

You have made serious allegations about your instrument and the manufacturer of that instrument. Now as things do not go the way you have expected, it is now time to delete this topic?

Have your technician, or technicians join this thread to explain what they have found.

Is there a problem with this too?

No, it is NOT that the problem.

Bad sawn: the keys (NOT the action) of the keyboard are unproperly sawn and they scratch one against the other inside the keyboard while you play.

It is something so absurd (but concrete and simple, I mean) that you still stop to think of tuning problems, but they don't.

In Italy we live a real life, not a "virtual forum life" and we solve problems in the real one.

I started this topic in friendship to share experiences in good faith: you see, if I want an expertise, I call Mr. Fabbrini.

Please contact Mr. Fabbrini and sort this out in real life then. Obviously there is no more to discuss here.

Just a thought, Dave,

Have you been keeping written records and photos of the chain of events since the piano was purchase new? If not, I think that would be a good idea.

I’m sorry you are experiencing these issues… a new piano should be a wonderful and joyous experience.

There is a lesson here for us all that the integrity and reputation of the dealer we buy from does matter, and not just the price.

Rick

Yes. I've started a topic on this forum one year ago. That means that I have one whole year of records, payment receips and technicians ready to "use".

But, after all, I'm starting to see that there is something strangely "heroic" in the that dealer policy: he sells un-serious brand pianos for what they are worth.

Thank You very much indeed, good bye You.