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#1896584 - 05/14/12 07:41 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Bech]
Karnevil Offline
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Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 154
Definately analoge, yes! laugh

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#1896603 - 05/14/12 08:51 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Bech]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
What Roland needs to do is at the very least come out with another Evolution style upgrade to the V-Piano and allow retailers to lower their prices for a sale once again. The price was raised now long enough and the market still does not have any competitors that can match the organic qualities and richness of sound the V-piano produces.

I, like bennevis, play Grand Piano's in concert settings all the time so I know what they sound and feel like. First of all the criticism that I hear over the years about the V-piano not living up to the hype in my opinion come from three different sources.

The first being its competitors saying how they played it and yet there is something inherintly wrong with the sound that they can only hear, etc. I'm pretty sure there are some competitors planted by rival companies who's main goal is to make everyone believe they own the product, give it just enough praise, and yet make up something bad about the product etc. or say they sold it to move onto its competitor etc. With the internet age, it is very easy to do this and sadly it happens more often than people would like to believe.

Secondly there are those who bought Avant-Grands which are its closest competitor and feel the need to justify their purchase by saying how much better they are in comparison, etc. They are a great instrument, and are a worthy competitor. However they really fall in two very different categories.

Third are actual owners which are very few who all have different talents and abilities but do share one common passion which led us to buy the most expensive stand-alone digital piano to date. I personally went through this over ten years ago when I landed Yamahas flagship model the CLP990 which I still play and love how it sounds. In comparison to the V-piano, it.still feels more like a real grand due to having wooden hammers and spruce keys. When hearing the sound out from its own speakers, it has a natural sounding tone to it that no other CLP has yet to match after 10 or more years. Now fast-forward to when the V-piano was released and I first played it at a Sam Ashe using pro audio headphones I brought it. The sound blew me away then which was not easy to do since I play the real thing and already own a great digital. two years later I made the purchase after getting the deal I wanted. After going through a return from a damaged product and waiting even more, it finally arrived.

Now after pluging it in at home and playing it for many hours that first fay, was I still as impressed as I was when I first heard it two years prior? I have to say that yes I was. And that is thanks to bennevis and his patches as they breathed new life into the product and made the default sounds a whole lot better. It realy is a night and day difference.

Now most of the criticism I hear about the V-piano seems to come from people who have not added bennevis's user created sounds first and formost. Secondly much of the criticism lies with playing it in a music store with the V-piano connected to terrible speakers and or terrible quality headphones.

Roland should have come out with the V-piano Grand (which sounds identical throguh headphones as it is the same sound engine) and had people hear it with its excellent quality speakers. I'm pretty sure that after a year or two of people playing it and raving about it online, Roland would have justified the release of the smaller V-piano and marketed it in a much better way.

Sadly the failure of the V-piano caurrently lies mainly with the way Roland has made all of us feel like they abandoned the product. However without any competition, (physis isn't out yet) except for pianoteq, perhaps their new stategy of raising the price and stopping its sales may work to some degree.

However what Roland needs to do is keep current owners talking about the V-Piano and there is no better way to illicit excitement than release an update. Once every two years is about the longest times inbetween updates anyone can take before believing a product has been abandoned for a newer model or for lack of sales.

So that is where we are at this point in time. Has it lived up to the hype it once recieved when it first came out? Probably not, however it did set its expectations pretty high. In my case, it gets close enough for me and has met my expectations. V-piano is still in my opinion the best sounding digital piano since you can tweak the sound to get what you want if you have the patience. I'll be doing a lot of recording the next few months and will be able to share my music once a cd is finalized. Roland should do something soon to regain interest in this market once more. I think it is a mistake to let their competitors catch up before they make their next move.Even if its a small update, they really should ido something. And again I urge Roland to get in touch with bennevis here in this forum who trully has done more for the advancement of this fully modelled V-piano by meticulously listening to CD's of grand piano's as well as grands he plays and creating very close matches in sound. Hire people like him and you can improve the sound set even further for the defaults which are lacking in punch in comparison. So from current owners, the criticism now mainly comes from a lack of any newer updates. (as well as ivory key wear but that is taken care of by Roland's warranty dept. in a timely manner so far.) Roland can change the attitude and discussion real fast by releasing a new update. It is easy marketing and if done right, will get them some more sales and better brand name recognition at the very least by showing the world they are still cutting edge equipment without equal at the moment which is true.



Edited by Kona_V-Piano (05/14/12 09:06 AM)
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Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1896613 - 05/14/12 09:05 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4397
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
Roland should hire bennevis and have him help in creating the next Evolution part 2 upgrade that the V-piano deserves. At the very least come out with the extra sounds taken from the V-piano Grand as part of Rolands way to say they are still supporting their amazing product.


Thanks for this endorsement grin.

However, my interests are solely in good, authentic piano sounds - I've no interest in any sound that lean more towards EP etc, so I suspect that my input will fall short of most DP users' expectations. If I had a say in the design of the upgrades, I'd simply use modeled piano sounds that sound identical to that of the big names' concert grands, plus maybe a few period pianos (Walter, Graf, Erard, Pleyel), and name the settings as such, just like the way I did on my customizations (which are as close to the real pianos - to my ears - as I could get using the existing presets, but obviously not quite identical). But that would probably fall foul of copyright laws.

The way the sounds behave depending on how the pianist plays is already way beyond what any sampled DP can do, and I don't see much scope for improvement here, especially as so much can be customized by the user anyway.

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#1896617 - 05/14/12 09:10 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: bennevis]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
Roland should hire bennevis and have him help in creating the next Evolution part 2 upgrade that the V-piano deserves. At the very least come out with the extra sounds taken from the V-piano Grand as part of Rolands way to say they are still supporting their amazing product.


Thanks for this endorsement grin.

However, my interests are solely in good, authentic piano sounds - I've no interest in any sound that lean more towards EP etc, so I suspect that my input will fall short of most DP users' expectations. If I had a say in the design of the upgrades, I'd simply use modeled piano sounds that sound identical to that of the big names' concert grands, plus maybe a few period pianos (Walter, Graf, Erard, Pleyel), and name the settings as such, just like the way I did on my customizations (which are as close to the real pianos - to my ears - as I could get using the existing presets, but obviously not quite identical). But that would probably fall foul of copyright laws.

The way the sounds behave depending on how the pianist plays is already way beyond what any sampled DP can do, and I don't see much scope for improvement here, especially as so much can be customized by the user anyway.


The way the V-piano was marketed, lacking any pads, and not allowing the use of its own GM sounbank shows they too wanted this to be just the best piano recreation possible. However not everyone has as good an ear as you do, and certainly not the Roland engineers who came up with the defaults. They could use someone like you quite honestly.
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#1896624 - 05/14/12 09:21 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Bech]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Quote:
The first being its competitors saying how they played it and yet there is something inherintly wrong with the sound that they can only hear, etc. I'm pretty sure there are some competitors planted by rival companies who's main goal is to make everyone believe they own the product, give it just enough praise, and yet make up something bad about the product etc. or say they sold it to move onto its competitor etc. With the internet age, it is very easy to do this and sadly it happens more often than people would like to believe.


Complete utter BS !
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#1896627 - 05/14/12 09:30 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2330
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
The first being its competitors saying how they played it and yet there is something inherintly wrong with the sound that they can only hear, etc. I'm pretty sure there are some competitors planted by rival companies who's main goal is to make everyone believe they own the product, give it just enough praise, and yet make up something bad about the product etc. or say they sold it to move onto its competitor etc. With the internet age, it is very easy to do this and sadly it happens more often than people would like to believe.


Are you referring to me? If so, say it.
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#1896628 - 05/14/12 09:30 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: bennevis]
offnote Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 258
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: bennevis
The way the sounds behave depending on how the pianist plays is already way beyond what any sampled DP can do, and I don't see much scope for improvement here, especially as so much can be customized by the user anyway.


couldn't agree more.

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#1896727 - 05/14/12 01:22 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Bech]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Popper and Brace,

I am not pointing fingers at anyone, as I do not know and do not care about your intentions or interest in which companies pianos get praise and which do not. I am simply pointing out all the diferent forms of criticism the V-piano has gotten and could get, valid or not. It would be naive to think companies or people with agendas have not written posts or articles meant to prop up a competing manufacturer. That has been going on since the beggining of advertising and marketing of products took place.

As for me, my agenda is to keep on searching for the best possible digital piano available and look to buy one once every 10 or so years. 10 or so years ago I bought Yamahas flagship CLP990 and am still happy with its petormance. I give Yamaha all sorts of praise for inventing that machine. Roland's V-Piano had a lot of hype and unrealistic expectations when it was announced and for some it did not live ip to expectations. For me it has lived up to them since I am feeling more connected now to playing it in how it sounds when compared to my beautifully sampled Clavinova. I still play both, however the more I play them, the more I gravitate towards the V.

I am glad that the V is getting competition in the modeling world with the new Physis piano. I will be interested in that one as pure curiosity since I am not selling nor buying another digital piano for another 10 years. I still am a fan of new technology as I am writing this on my new Ipad 3. In a few months, I will have a cd out with music played on the V. I will make sure you guys hear what it can sound like in a good solid mix and by itself in piano solo's. In the end this is a forum with so few people interested in what goes on with digital pianos. 99% of people cannot and will never care about having the best piano sound or what goes into a sound. That is why the market is The way it is and prices remain so high. I do see in the V-piano that a lot of quality and effort went into its design and implimentation. I love hooking up mu computer to it and messing with the sounds. I again thank bennevis and hope to see some more creations. I wish I was more proactive and created my own sounds. This summer I will and contribute to the thread bennevis started.


Edited by Kona_V-Piano (05/14/12 03:13 PM)
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Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1896750 - 05/14/12 02:23 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2330
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
It would be naive to think companies or people with agendas have not written posts or articles meant to prop up a competing manufacturer. That has been going on since the beggining of advertising and marketing of products took place.


Maybe so, but there is absolutely no evidence at all that ANYONE on this forum has made negative comments or criticised the V-Piano for any reason other than because it is their honestly held opinion.
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#1896763 - 05/14/12 03:12 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: EssBrace]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
It would be naive to think companies or people with agendas have not written posts or articles meant to prop up a competing manufacturer. That has been going on since the beggining of advertising and marketing of products took place.


Maybe so, but there is absolutely no evidence at all that ANYONE on this forum has made negative comments or criticised the V-Piano for any reason other than because it is their honestly held opinion.


I honestly don't care. If you believe my post has anything to do with you, that is your business. So far you're the one drawing attention to yourself over this.
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Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1896768 - 05/14/12 03:20 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: bennevis]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
Roland should hire bennevis and have him help in creating the next Evolution part 2 upgrade that the V-piano deserves. At the very least come out with the extra sounds taken from the V-piano Grand as part of Rolands way to say they are still supporting their amazing product.


Thanks for this endorsement grin.

However, my interests are solely in good, authentic piano sounds - I've no interest in any sound that lean more towards EP etc, so I suspect that my input will fall short of most DP users' expectations. If I had a say in the design of the upgrades, I'd simply use modeled piano sounds that sound identical to that of the big names' concert grands, plus maybe a few period pianos (Walter, Graf, Erard, Pleyel), and name the settings as such, just like the way I did on my customizations (which are as close to the real pianos - to my ears - as I could get using the existing presets, but obviously not quite identical). But that would probably fall foul of copyright laws.

The way the sounds behave depending on how the pianist plays is already way beyond what any sampled DP can do, and I don't see much scope for improvement here, especially as so much can be customized by the user anyway.


100% agreed. The way the V-piano behaves is unlike anything a sampled piano can produce. That is why it feels and sounds organic when being played. It has been a great investment so far and I hope to see another voice update similar to the evolution. That would show some support by Roland that they still care about the technology and breath new badly needed fire which might fuel interest in the product and idea of physical modeling once more.
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Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1896769 - 05/14/12 03:21 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2330
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
I honestly don't care. If you believe my post has anything to do with you, that is your business. So far you're the one drawing attention to yourself over this.


You are quite unbelievable...
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#1896796 - 05/14/12 04:21 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
DazedAndConfused Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 188
Loc: Greenwich, London, United King...
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano


Sadly the failure of the V-piano currently lies mainly with the way Roland has made all of us feel like they abandoned the product.


The "consensus" view is that the V-Piano has failed is at best anecdotal and more likely due the persistently vindictive campaign of a few empty vessels.

Looking today at the website of one of Europe's biggest music stores, I noticed that the V-Piano Grand is outselling both the Avantgrand N2 and N3 despite costing £2000 more than the latter.

My view is that a £5000 DP with only acoustic piano sounds and no speakers was never ever destined for the home. The V-Piano is a stage or studio instrument and should be judged on those terms. The fact that so many discerning pianists have adopted it as a practice instrument at home is surely a bonus for Roland.


Edited by DazedAndConfused (05/14/12 04:34 PM)
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#1896803 - 05/14/12 04:31 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: DazedAndConfused]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: DazedAndConfused
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano


Sadly the failure of the V-piano currently lies mainly with the way Roland has made all of us feel like they abandoned the product.


The "consensus" view is that the V-Piano has failed is at best anecdotal and more likely due the persistently vindictive campaign of a few empty vessels.

Looking today at the website of one of Europe's biggest music stores, I noticed that the V-Piano Grand is outselling the Avantgrand N3 despite costing £2000 more.

My view is that a £5000 DP with only acoustic piano sounds and no speakers was never ever destined for the home. The V-Piano is a stage or studio instrument and should be judged on those terms. The fact that so many discerning pianists have adopted it as a practice instrument at home is surely a bonus for Roland.


Oh that can't be, the sound is so flawed compared to everything else. I am shocked. wink

I guess in terms of marketing, it seems to have been marketed towards the studio and stage, however its wieght has made it a dificult sell for gigging musicians.

The V-Piano Grand is a very nice sounding instrument, and has been selling well lately so perhaps the matketing has been working for that so far. Perhaps that is why they raised the price of the V-Piano.

I honestly want to see the market expand though for the V-Piano and I feel Roland would be missing out if they allow other companies get the heads up. Make a cheaper mid range one and sell it to the masses. We need more High quality pianos in homes, be it upright or digital.
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Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1896809 - 05/14/12 04:47 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
DazedAndConfused Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 188
Loc: Greenwich, London, United King...
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano


I honestly want to see the market expand though for the V-Piano and I feel Roland would be missing out if they allow other companies get the heads up. Make a cheaper mid range one and sell it to the masses. We need more High quality pianos in homes, be it upright or digital.


Where would that leave the Supernatural range?

I think Roland's strategy is logical. The very successful Supernatural pianos are for the home and the V-Pianos are for studio and stage.

The modelling technology is Roland's flagship and it doesn't make sense for it to be priced lower than SN pianos. IMO.
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#1896813 - 05/14/12 04:54 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Bech]
Gigantoad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 336
Roland already said what they think about the V-Piano. It's their flag ship digital piano and as such they don't want to sell it to the masses. Apparently they think it helps the brand name, much like the top of the line BMW or Mercedes helps to market the lower models. Keeping the price high will gives it that luxury touch that only few can afford.

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#1896873 - 05/14/12 06:39 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Bech]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1420
Bech, if you're comparing the V-Piano to 'high quality acoustics' you're going to be disappointed in the V-Piano. The highest end DPs don't even approach a well prepped mid grade acoustic grand let alone a high end acoustic. What is more important to you, touch or tone? If touch, have a look at the AvantGrand N1 for a a little more money, and I personally prefer the sound of mine vs the V-Piano. I think for mimicking the behavior of the sound of an acoustic grand, there is no better DP than the V-Piano, but for all other categories there are other, better options, some at less money. The LX-15 represents a better value and sound with the same action and a beautiful cabinet and speaker system for less money!
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#1896897 - 05/14/12 07:53 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano

I honestly don't care. If you believe my post has anything to do with you, that is your business. So far you're the one drawing attention to yourself over this.


I was going to respond to this thread, until I read this. I owned a V-Piano, but you don't care, apparently, so I'll not comment further.
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#1896912 - 05/14/12 08:25 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: EssBrace]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
It would be naive to think companies or people with agendas have not written posts or articles meant to prop up a competing manufacturer. That has been going on since the beggining of advertising and marketing of products took place.


Maybe so, but there is absolutely no evidence at all that ANYONE on this forum has made negative comments or criticised the V-Piano for any reason other than because it is their honestly held opinion.


Beyond that, I wouldn't think that resorting to Ad Hominem would get such a free pass here.

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#1896923 - 05/14/12 08:53 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: EssBrace]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2634
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Maybe so, but there is absolutely no evidence....
The hundreds of sock puppets that have surfaced over the years are evidence that it does happen, even if it is not happening in this instance. Moderators have tools to catch IP dupes, but they are not detectives nor do they evaluate for truth.

I'm not directing this at anyone, because I see similarities in threads about products like Korg Kronos & SV-1, to Roland FP-4F, Yamaha YPD-141, etc...so I hope others can see my perspective.

There is absolutely no evidence that anyone bothers with evidence before being influenced by the opinions of anonymous forum posters. Should there be? In a small industry with little in the way of detailed independent reviews, constant cries for genuine innovation, fewer brick & mortar retail outlets where someone might be able to try for themselves, we can't ignore the effect of the same 10 people kicking the same ball around every few months on the casual lurkers that might drop in. Change any one of those factors, and the impact drops to negligible - just a footnote as part of a shopper's due diligence.

The V-piano is expensive with high expectations. I'm not surprised at critical reviews about a flagship product. I lose interest when the same grievance appears half a dozen times in half a dozen threads, which I feel is different than sharing an opinion. It plays out like an agenda.
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#1896936 - 05/14/12 09:19 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
I was going to respond to this thread, until I read this. I owned a V-Piano, but you don't care, apparently, so I'll not comment further.


You got it wrong, I own a V-Piano, and I still own all of the instruments I've ever bought. It is amazing how discussion about the V-Piano brings in so much hate out of people who don't even own one. When going to a B&M that has a V-Piano or any digital piano to demo, it is very important to take high end headphones with you. I have never seen high end headphones or speakers attached to any of the keyboards over the years from Mars Music (when it was still around) Sam Ashe, or Guitar Center. The speakers that are there are also on average are very old and falling apart for the most part (terrible sound). The two V-piano's at Sam Ashe were banged up on all four corners and the keys have a nasty look to them after all the greasy hands playing it. The V-piano out in a showroom really is meant to be played in a control environment. For being a high end product, in those B&M's mentioned it is treated like any other keyboard. For people to want to spend twice as much or three times as much for a product, it really has to be that good. I am not saying the V-piano is worth $3,000 more than a Roland RD-700NX. However if you are nitpicky about piano sound like me, it is. That market is a very small one, as musicians and recording artists interested to have one in a studio environment, or a couple people in bands willing to take them on tour. However there are a few of us who are none of the above who purchased one because they want the best of the best. I for one spent a lot of time making up my mind. I did try out the AG series since I was curious about it. It did not sound or feel any better than my current CLP990 to make the leap. Now if it was sampled off of a Yamaha CFX, perhaps I would be telling a different tune, however even then the sampled sound is not for me anymore.

Granted, I am happy with the results that bennevis has come with in regards to the Yamaha CFX sound on the V-Piano. It is very close if anyone is interested in hearing. It is nice to have a thread where owners can share sounds created as well. No other digital offers that type of control at the moment.

Check out this thread below where users who own a V-piano can share their user created presets.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1578653/V-Piano%20presets%20exchange!%20How%20.html#Post1578653

Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Maybe so, but there is absolutely no evidence....
The hundreds of sock puppets that have surfaced over the years are evidence that it does happen, even if it is not happening in this instance. Moderators have tools to catch IP dupes, but they are not detectives nor do they evaluate for truth.

I'm not directing this at anyone, because I see similarities in threads about products like Korg Kronos & SV-1, to Roland FP-4F, Yamaha YPD-141, etc...so I hope others can see my perspective.

There is absolutely no evidence that anyone bothers with evidence before being influenced by the opinions of anonymous forum posters. Should there be? In a small industry with little in the way of detailed independent reviews, constant cries for genuine innovation, fewer brick & mortar retail outlets where someone might be able to try for themselves, we can't ignore the effect of the same 10 people kicking the same ball around every few months on the casual lurkers that might drop in. Change any one of those factors, and the impact drops to negligible - just a footnote as part of a shopper's due diligence.

The V-piano is expensive with high expectations. I'm not surprised at critical reviews about a flagship product. I lose interest when the same grievance appears half a dozen times in half a dozen threads, which I feel is different than sharing an opinion. It plays out like an agenda.


It is hard to believe anyone is naive enough to think this doesn't happen..lol..


Edited by Kona_V-Piano (05/14/12 09:43 PM)
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1896962 - 05/14/12 09:50 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Bech]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8393
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Could it not be argued that the reverse is also possible - i.e. hiring folks to continuously post positive comments about products, in an effort to improve their reputation.

Please note that I do not believe either happens here on PianoWorld - I am merely pointing out that it is equally possible.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1897021 - 05/14/12 10:30 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Kawai James]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Could it not be argued that the reverse is also possible - i.e. hiring folks to continuously post positive comments about products, in an effort to improve their reputation.

Please note that I do not believe either happens here on PianoWorld - I am merely pointing out that it is equally possible.


I can only really recall one instance where I thought someone was being paid to post information here (and I may have been wrong about that) - and that was positive information. It seemed laughable to most of us, given the low stature of the particular brand, the glowing tributes and the endlessly repetitive posts, although I could see casual visitors being influenced (maybe).

Recently someone popped up (and I don't mean Dr Popper!) to say that the Yamaha CP series was not discontinued, and I suspected that that person was connected with the brand, but no value judgments were offered by that member.

I believe that most of us who come here regularly would be able to spot plants, and other than those isolated cases mentioned above, I don't recall anyone posting as if they were incognito industry reps. One or two retailers may have "crossed the line" occasionally by not revealing their status and bias, but that also is rare. On the other hand some non-affiliated members are very partisan about their instruments, and "dig in" hard when challenged - but that's not the same thing as being a plant.

What I do regret, though, is the tendency for discussions to degenerate into personal attacks. The V-Piano threads seem very prone to that! I can't see the point in endless attacks and counterattacks without anything new being learned. People have different requirements and tastes, and there is no point in lambasting someone who simply has a different preference to one's own.

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#1897034 - 05/14/12 10:50 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: voxpops]
Lefty Chev Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 377
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Could it not be argued that the reverse is also possible - i.e. hiring folks to continuously post positive comments about products, in an effort to improve their reputation.

Please note that I do not believe either happens here on PianoWorld - I am merely pointing out that it is equally possible.


I can only really recall one instance where I thought someone was being paid to post information here (and I may have been wrong about that) - and that was positive information. It seemed laughable to most of us, given the low stature of the particular brand, the glowing tributes and the endlessly repetitive posts, although I could see casual visitors being influenced (maybe).

Recently someone popped up (and I don't mean Dr Popper!) to say that the Yamaha CP series was not discontinued, and I suspected that that person was connected with the brand, but no value judgments were offered by that member.

I believe that most of us who come here regularly would be able to spot plants, and other than those isolated cases mentioned above, I don't recall anyone posting as if they were incognito industry reps. One or two retailers may have "crossed the line" occasionally by not revealing their status and bias, but that also is rare. On the other hand some non-affiliated members are very partisan about their instruments, and "dig in" hard when challenged - but that's not the same thing as being a plant.

What I do regret, though, is the tendency for discussions to degenerate into personal attacks. The V-Piano threads seem very prone to that! I can't see the point in endless attacks and counterattacks without anything new being learned. People have different requirements and tastes, and there is no point in lambasting someone who simply has a different preference to one's own.


Beyond any of that, trying to tear down the poster instead of discussing their points is in really bad form. Either their points hold water or they don't. Attacking the poster just makes the person doing it look bad.

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#1897044 - 05/14/12 11:17 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: voxpops]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Could it not be argued that the reverse is also possible - i.e. hiring folks to continuously post positive comments about products, in an effort to improve their reputation.

Please note that I do not believe either happens here on PianoWorld - I am merely pointing out that it is equally possible.


I can only really recall one instance where I thought someone was being paid to post information here (and I may have been wrong about that) - and that was positive information. It seemed laughable to most of us, given the low stature of the particular brand, the glowing tributes and the endlessly repetitive posts, although I could see casual visitors being influenced (maybe).

Recently someone popped up (and I don't mean Dr Popper!) to say that the Yamaha CP series was not discontinued, and I suspected that that person was connected with the brand, but no value judgments were offered by that member.

I believe that most of us who come here regularly would be able to spot plants, and other than those isolated cases mentioned above, I don't recall anyone posting as if they were incognito industry reps. One or two retailers may have "crossed the line" occasionally by not revealing their status and bias, but that also is rare. On the other hand some non-affiliated members are very partisan about their instruments, and "dig in" hard when challenged - but that's not the same thing as being a plant.

What I do regret, though, is the tendency for discussions to degenerate into personal attacks. The V-Piano threads seem very prone to that! I can't see the point in endless attacks and counterattacks without anything new being learned. People have different requirements and tastes, and there is no point in lambasting someone who simply has a different preference to one's own.


This thread degenerated after a couple forum members thought a portion of my post was directed at them. It does seem since the V-Piano is different than the rest of the sampled pianos, it brings with it a lot of emotions, good and bad.

I believe there is a need for Roland to continue to support the V-Piano with at least one more update. It would spark a more positive discussion from owners and also those on the fence about buying one. I do not know Roland's future marketing plans for the V-Piano however they currently aren't doing anything at all.

In a way I do wish there were more V-Piano and or V-Piano Grand owners who would join this forum so they could contribute to bennevis's voice sharing thread. However I have come to the realization that is not going to happen anytime soon. Perhaps when Roland moves past the Supernatural line and modeling technology encompases all of their pianos where the same user settings can be applied. For that the technology inside the V-Piano needs to get a lot less expensive to manufacturer, or Roland would have to make back the money on Research and Development first to warant a drop in price and mid range products utilizing the tech. Either way, I do feel modeling is the future and even if it takes Yamaha five years, I think they too will eventually come out with the same.




Edited by Kona_V-Piano (05/14/12 11:34 PM)
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1897126 - 05/15/12 03:35 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
offnote Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 258
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-PianoIn
a way I do wish there were more V-Piano and or V-Piano Grand owners who would join this forum so they could contribute to bennevis's voice sharing thread. However I have come to the realization that is not going to happen anytime soon.


it won't happen because those instruments are ridiculously overpriced. V-Piano grand is actually sick overpriced so don't expect too many crazy owners wink Digital or modeled piano should be less expensive then acoustic and in that case is the opposite sick

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#1897132 - 05/15/12 03:41 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Bech]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2235
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
Granted, I am happy with the results that bennevis has come with in regards to the Yamaha CFX sound on the V-Piano. It is very close if anyone is interested in hearing. It is nice to have a thread where owners can share sounds created as well. No other digital offers that type of control at the moment.

Not so. Check out TADutchman's thread for Kawai CA63 and 93 owners.

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#1897136 - 05/15/12 04:18 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2330
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
This thread degenerated after a couple forum members thought a portion of my post was directed at them. It does seem since the V-Piano is different than the rest of the sampled pianos, it brings with it a lot of emotions, good and bad.


No, it degenerated when you made thinly veiled references to me and one or two others, then denied it with a very dismissive, arrogant retort when asked to state your case more directly.

So, who was your comment referring to?

Let's remember that the very positive and then the negative or at least shall we say qualified comments generally come from a few posters:

Me - had a V-Piano, got rid of it because I didn't like the tone (regardless of all the fiddling around that is possible).
Lawrence (MelodialWorks Music) - had a V-Piano, got rid of it for the same reasons.
Dr. Popper - Professional musician, played a V-Piano many times, hates it.
Bruce (bfb) - Got a V-Piano, not enamoured with the tone so uses it exclusively to control software now and would have got rid of it had it not cost him so much. Thinks Roland should further develop it.
Richard (pv88) - Got a V-Piano. Hears issues with the tone and is having problems with the keys but is prepared to tolerate those problems for all the good things the V does.
bennevis - Got a V-Piano, very happy with it. Had replacement keys due to wear.
Kona - Got a V-Piano, very happy with it, no issues with the piano but frustrated Roland have done diddly-squat with the concept since launch.
DazedandConfused - Plays a V regularly, likes it very much, intends to buy one at some point in the future.

Have I missed anyone with lots of personal experience of the V that very often contributes to V-Piano threads? So, Kona - who was your comment referring to?
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1897163 - 05/15/12 05:58 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Bech]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Lets get this straight ... I don't shrill for ANYONE
I had a V-Piano I thought it's mid range sounded artificial and terrible so I off loaded it end of story.
I have a RD700NX which is also a Roland and I think its pretty damm good and much better then the V-piano ever was.
I think the JP-80 is the best board I've played for years ... so don't give me BS about any anti Roland bias or anti V-piano bias.
I have absolutely nothing at stake whatsoever ... I didn't spend thousands of dollars on a V-piano so I didn't have to defend my decision.
All I ever say is the ONLY people I know who like the V-piano are amateur players who actually have bought one themselves and feel the need to defend it. These are coincidentally the only people who can't seem to hear its awful synthetic mid range. I like many other ex V owners here don't think much of the V-piano but we have no reason to fool ourselves unlike those who shelled out whatever absurd amount of money Roland asks for it.

And lets clear up some misinformation .... on V-piano sales
Roland have not sold many V-pianos at all ... which is why so few owners come on the forum. V-Piano owners are rare.
As for the person who stated as a fact the V-piano Grand is outselling Yamaha's AG ...well lets talk facts.
There have been less the 30 V-Grands delivered worldwide (yep 30 !!!) ... Yamaha has sold over 2000 AG's ....

Now I don't much like the AG either so don't accuse me of being a AG shrill ... it's just the facts.

Nothing wrong with Roland in fact I believe they make the best stage piano in the world and have the best DP technology but the V isn't it. The RD700NX is a far better board with less flaws then the V. The V is a interesting exercise but it isn't there yet.
What fools you all is that it's got a amazing connective feel to it unlike any other DP and that makes you think its good. But it might feel good playing it (as the CP1 does) the V's sound is fatally flawed (not that this clique of V owners can hear it).

I've got no agenda against the V ...only a agenda against poor sounding pianos but I'm going to call it how I see it because if I can stop some cashed up newbie who is listening to one of these V love fest threads from dropping $5k plus on something that's a complete waste of money then I will.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1897168 - 05/15/12 06:08 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Bech]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4397
Methinks you doth protest too much.... grin

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