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#1897619 - 05/15/12 10:09 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Karnevil]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Karnevil
I wouldn't be suprised if Roland just let the V-Piano silently fade out into the DP horizon .


Not exactly remember that the software was the basis of the Supernatural sound that is their main piano these days. The V was used to develop the SN ...they are linked.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1897620 - 05/15/12 10:09 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: alekkh]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: alekkh
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Which is rather like saying those who don't play classical or "really advanced jazz" aren't really interested in the sound of their pianos. Which strikes me as elitist and (of course) total nonsense.


I don't think its nonsense. It's spot on.

For non-classical music mixes, very bright pianos from workstations work better than recordings of a real acoustic grand. The real grands sound muddy in most mixes and need plenty of equalization and compression. Where's nonsense?

PS
and there hardly a doubt that classical and Jazz pianists deliver far more expression than other styles. As a rule, they can play your style of choice perfectly and a self-taught hip-hop artist cannot play classical or jazz anywhere good.


Utter complete total rubbish ...
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1897639 - 05/15/12 10:53 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Dr Popper]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: Karnevil
I wouldn't be suprised if Roland just let the V-Piano silently fade out into the DP horizon .


Not exactly remember that the software was the basis of the Supernatural sound that is their main piano these days. The V was used to develop the SN ...they are linked.


Correct, the research and development of the V-piano also helped enhance their current sampled piano sound.

http://www.roland.com/piano/SuperNATURAL_Piano.html

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper

I know Paul well and I've never seen him with a V-piano .... might be a Roland thing indeed.


Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Is it this Paul Mirkovich? The one that "assists" Roland with its marketing?

http://www.roland.com/video/page.cfm?vid=50180512

And as an aside (irrelevant, admittedly) on his myspace page lists his heroes as - Mom, wife, and, wait for it....Jesus.

Sick bag anyone?


LOL, I'm pretty sure he has one in his home studio unless the walk-through he allowed the video cameras that went into his home was all for show.


Edited by Kona_V-Piano (05/15/12 10:57 PM)
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1897656 - 05/15/12 11:52 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Dr Popper]
alekkh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 205
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper

Utter complete total rubbish ...


Excessive use of emotions - a sure sign of someone making a shaky point.

You are making a very shaky point, mister.

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#1897668 - 05/16/12 12:19 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: alekkh]
Manolios Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 125
Loc: Germany
You guys are pretty entertaining. Turning my TV off. Click!

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#1897702 - 05/16/12 01:53 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: alekkh]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)


Originally Posted By: alekkh
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper

Utter complete total rubbish ...


Excessive use of emotions - a sure sign of someone making a shaky point.

You are making a very shaky point, mister.


U think ? Tell me how ... shaky one
On second thoughts ....just don't
I couldn't give a ....
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1897713 - 05/16/12 02:22 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2503
Looks like that other YouTube link (posted earlier) doesn't show Paul Mirkovich demonstrating a V-Piano, although this one does:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd04PNZNQ3M

And, here's one by Rick DePiro:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igf6OyT0Q-k

And, Adam Berzowski:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IEwTaSmnoo

And, Robert Werner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVijTYsZCQM

And, Rolf Zielke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01Gec7RDVnw

Also, John Maul:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzi74I7RYIw

Yana Reznik:*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9fnw0-Hqiw

Who is this?**

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mh5vVhYJRw

All are professional musicians.

Extra notes:

*Concert pianist.

**Very good!

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#1897752 - 05/16/12 05:40 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Bech]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4397
As far as I know, Roland's V-Piano Grand was, and still is, the only DP that was introduced to the world in a series of classical concerts in several cities in 21 countries from Sweden, Russia and China to Australia and Brazil, in all continents except Antarctica (though I suspect the British Antarctic Survey has a V-P Grand on order.... grin). There's no sterner test of a DP than to present it in a concert hall under concert conditions, with virtuosic repertoire played by a classical pianist just like a Steinway D would: using its own speakers only, no manipulation and no external amplification. (Classical concerts are never miked/amplified except in unusual venues like Olympic stadiums).

That was just last year, and I think Roland, having put so much money into that concept (and managing to persuade so many established classical concert pianists - normally completely adverse to touching DPs - in so many countries to play the V-P Grand) has no intention of letting the V-Piano go anytime soon.

And to be frank, classical musicians do use their instruments differently: some of the posts in this thread leave me scratching my head. Is a piano for making music with, and does one regard a good piano as one that allows you to express yourself fully and musically and realize the composers' intentions, and doesn't impede your ability to do so (assuming you have the technical ability)? Or is it merely something that just produces a nice sound that you can enjoy as you tinker the keyboard, and when you eventually get bored, to have the sound changed/upgraded?

Classical pianists don't 'upgrade' their pianos every year, and don't get bored with the sounds they make. After all, they are in control of the sounds that come out, not a silicon chip.

I for one am perfectly happy with the sound of my V-Piano, and just wish there were more hours in the day so I can learn more repertoire and improve my technique. Making all those customizations of acoustic concert grand pianos was really just a sideline for me, not my reason to purchase the V-Piano. The reason I bought it in preference to any other is simply that it is the only DP that 'feels' like an acoustic, and behaves like one (in terms of the way the sound changes depending on how you play), and allows me full rein to express myself, within the limits of my own technique of course.

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#1897803 - 05/16/12 07:44 AM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: bennevis]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: bennevis
As far as I know, Roland's V-Piano Grand was, and still is, the only DP that was introduced to the world in a series of classical concerts in several cities in several countries from China to Argentina in all continents except Antarctica (though I suspect the British Antarctic Survey has a V-P Grand on order.... grin). There's no sterner test of a DP than to present it in a concert hall under concert conditions, with virtuosic repertoire played by a classical pianist just like a Steinway D would: using its own speakers only, no manipulation and no external amplification. (Classical concerts are never miked/amplified except in unusual venues like Olympic stadiums).

That was just last year, and I think Roland, having put so much money into that concept (and managing to persuade so many established classical concert pianists - normally completely adverse to touching DPs - in so many countries to play the V-P Grand) has no intention of letting the V-Piano go anytime soon.

And to be frank, classical musicians do use their instruments differently: some of the posts in this thread leave me scratching my head. Is a piano for making music with, and does one regard a good piano as one that allows you to express yourself fully and musically and realize the composers' intentions, and doesn't impede your ability to do so (assuming you have the technical ability)? Or is it merely something that just produces a nice sound that you can enjoy as you tinker the keyboard, and when you eventually get bored, to have the sound changed/upgraded?

Classical pianists don't 'upgrade' their pianos every year, and don't get bored with the sounds they make. After all, they are in control of the sounds that come out, not a silicon chip.

I for one am perfectly happy with the sound of my V-Piano, and just wish there were more hours in the day so I can learn more repertoire and improve my technique. Making all those customizations of acoustic concert grand pianos was really just a sideline for me, not my reason to purchase the V-Piano. The reason I bought it in preference to any other is simply that it is the only DP that 'feels' like an acoustic, and behaves like one (in terms of the way the sound changes depending on how you play), and allows me full rein to express myself, within the limits of my own technique of course.


I'd like to add that the V-Piano produces the exact same sound as the V-Piano Grand to my ears. Now I even know that if you take a real Grand Piano that is perfectly in tune and was chosen by you after trying out multiple brands so you can choose whether you like a brighter or warmer sound will always be better than anything speakers connected to a DP can produce. However not everyone has the money to buy their very own Grand Piano and even less would have enough space to put one in their home.

That is where the strengh lies with the V-Piano. As bennevis said, it feels and behaves just like an acoustic and you can hear this very easily after playing it and moving to any other sampled piano sound. Even if you move to Rolands very own SuperNatural piano sound which is based off of the V, it still is missing that organic sound and feel the piano has.

Now the way a piano sounds And whether one actually likes the way it sounds is a very personal thing. You can spend a year playing 100 different Grands and still perhaps not be able to choose just one as a favorite. You may have multiple favorites. With the V-Piano, you can have almost any Type of piano sound you prefer on that day, however after a couple months, you'll have chosen perhaps two or three that you go back and forth on depending of the song.. I for one love the way my Yamaha CLP990 sounds and still do. You would think the V-Piano whose two main piano sounds in Vintage 1 and Vintage 2 which are based off of two very different sounding piano boards that are not Yamaha Grands would be impossible to mimic and change to make it sound like a Yamaha. However I can go back and forth from my V-Piano to my CLP990 and get an almost 95% match. The only part of the sound I cannot change to match to make it a 99% match has to do with how the sounds are mixed together in the CLP990. There is a seperate sounboard mic which was used to capture this reverberation that is looped and is unnatural sounding when played under certain conditions. I got used to it and have learned to like its unique sound, however it is not reproducible on s real acoustic, so the V cannot mimic it. Also the looping of the actual piano string resonace decaying is heard repeating as well. An entire thread in this forum is stickied and one of the measures of greatness in DP sound is how long the samples last before they are looped. Because that looping is what drives some people batty and those refuse to play DP's or even recognize them. I am thankfully not one of those, however I can understand the feeling. Over the years of switching from Acoustic Grands to sampled DP's I have grown acustomed to hearing this looping and cannot avoid hearing it. Now even the AvantGrand series does not get rid of it as it uses samples.

Now after many visits to Sam Ashe while taking my own high end headphones, I played the V-Piano looking for any faults and whether it was worthy of me to spend all the money I did on it. Almost two years after its debut, I purchased one. The one at the Sam Ashe did not even have the Evolution update, so it was a nice surpise to have new sounds when it arrived.

Now after all of the different tweaks bennevis has made in the sounds using mainly the two main presets, it should be very easy to find the piano sound you like. If you love the way the Yamaha's sound, I can be honest and tell you it is possible to get very close in matching it. I will make a recording of both the CLP990 and the V-Piano playing the same song over the summer so you can hear what I mean. Granted my Clavinova sounds better over its speakers than headphones just as the AG series does as well.

A lot of attention and money has been spent by Roland to market the V-Piano Grand at different venues around the world for classical music. Perhaps it is safe to say Roland still supports the V-Piano, just not directly as its focus in on the Grand, which is for all intents and purposes the same thing, without the cabinet and speakers. It will be interesting to see if the V-Piano gets shown some attention ever again or if the focus will stay on the Grand in terms of marketing.
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1898036 - 05/16/12 02:03 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2331
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
I can go back and forth from my V-Piano to my CLP990 and get an almost 95% match.


Oh yes? Well, please post recordings of both and let us all be the judge of what a "95% match" sounds like. I'd really be VERY interested in hearing that particular comparison.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1898053 - 05/16/12 02:41 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Bech]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1420
Yeah Kona, I'd be really interested to hear the comparison there. Btw, the AG through its speaker systems sounds entirely different than the AG through headphones. The AG through speakers sounds really good.
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1898158 - 05/16/12 05:27 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Bech]
Karnevil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 154
The AG sounds really good through headphones too actually, you just need to use the right headphones. Yamaha's own sounds vastly different than my two fairly high quality headsets from Audio-Technica and Denon, it's almost like listening to a different DP. With Yamaha headphones the sound is much closer to what you hear from the speakers.

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#1898273 - 05/16/12 09:04 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: Bech]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 531
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
just had to say this, sorry- i know its off the subject. was reading the thread from the new CP5 owner.

Question- are there actually more V-piano owners than there are CP1 owners? i don't recall anybody on this blog ever saying they bought one.

sorry. just an observation to break up the normal v-piano food fight exchange.
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1898291 - 05/16/12 09:28 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: bennevis]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2503
Originally Posted By: bennevis
The reason I bought it in preference to any other is simply that it is the only DP that 'feels' like an acoustic, and behaves like one (in terms of the way the sound changes depending on how you play), and allows me full rein to express myself, within the limits of my own technique of course.


I am in agreement with you (100%+) on the acoustic-like response.

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#1898296 - 05/16/12 09:40 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: pv88]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: pv88
Originally Posted By: bennevis
The reason I bought it in preference to any other is simply that it is the only DP that 'feels' like an acoustic, and behaves like one (in terms of the way the sound changes depending on how you play), and allows me full rein to express myself, within the limits of my own technique of course.


I am in agreement with you (100%+) on the acoustic-like response.



Ditto

I hope I am able to record some examples this summer
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1898297 - 05/16/12 09:40 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: bfb]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: bfb
Question- are there actually more V-piano owners than there are CP1 owners? i don't recall anybody on this blog ever saying they bought one.

Member Hideki Matsui used to own one, and I think Dr. Popper has one - maybe he'll confirm.

I'd love to play one, but the general consensus appears to be that the improvement in sound over the CP5 does not justify double the price.

The V offers something much more unique than the CP1. However, as to which sounds/plays better, I wouldn't know.

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#1898348 - 05/16/12 11:06 PM Re: Roland V-Piano [Re: bfb]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: bfb


Question- are there actually more V-piano owners than there are CP1 owners?


Production wise its about a 4-1 ratio in favor of the CP1 but you would expect that with Yamaha.
Distribution power alone accounts for most of that number.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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