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100% agreed. The way the V-piano behaves is unlike anything a sampled piano can produce. That is why it feels and sounds organic when being played. It has been a great investment so far and I hope to see another voice update similar to the evolution. That would show some support by Roland that they still care about the technology and breath new badly needed fire which might fuel interest in the product and idea of physical modeling once more.

You are quite unbelievable...

The "consensus" view is that the V-Piano has failed is at best anecdotal and more likely due the persistently vindictive campaign of a few empty vessels.

Looking today at the website of one of Europe's biggest music stores, I noticed that the V-Piano Grand is outselling both the Avantgrand N2 and N3 despite costing £2000 more than the latter.

My view is that a £5000 DP with only acoustic piano sounds and no speakers was never ever destined for the home. The V-Piano is a stage or studio instrument and should be judged on those terms. The fact that so many discerning pianists have adopted it as a practice instrument at home is surely a bonus for Roland.

Oh that can't be, the sound is so flawed compared to everything else. I am shocked.

I guess in terms of marketing, it seems to have been marketed towards the studio and stage, however its wieght has made it a dificult sell for gigging musicians.

The V-Piano Grand is a very nice sounding instrument, and has been selling well lately so perhaps the matketing has been working for that so far. Perhaps that is why they raised the price of the V-Piano.

I honestly want to see the market expand though for the V-Piano and I feel Roland would be missing out if they allow other companies get the heads up. Make a cheaper mid range one and sell it to the masses. We need more High quality pianos in homes, be it upright or digital.

Where would that leave the Supernatural range?

I think Roland's strategy is logical. The very successful Supernatural pianos are for the home and the V-Pianos are for studio and stage.

The modelling technology is Roland's flagship and it doesn't make sense for it to be priced lower than SN pianos. IMO.

Roland already said what they think about the V-Piano. It's their flag ship digital piano and as such they don't want to sell it to the masses. Apparently they think it helps the brand name, much like the top of the line BMW or Mercedes helps to market the lower models. Keeping the price high will gives it that luxury touch that only few can afford.

Bech, if you're comparing the V-Piano to 'high quality acoustics' you're going to be disappointed in the V-Piano. The highest end DPs don't even approach a well prepped mid grade acoustic grand let alone a high end acoustic. What is more important to you, touch or tone? If touch, have a look at the AvantGrand N1 for a a little more money, and I personally prefer the sound of mine vs the V-Piano. I think for mimicking the behavior of the sound of an acoustic grand, there is no better DP than the V-Piano, but for all other categories there are other, better options, some at less money. The LX-15 represents a better value and sound with the same action and a beautiful cabinet and speaker system for less money!

I was going to respond to this thread, until I read this. I owned a V-Piano, but you don't care, apparently, so I'll not comment further.

Beyond that, I wouldn't think that resorting to Ad Hominem would get such a free pass here.

The hundreds of sock puppets that have surfaced over the years are evidence that it does happen, even if it is not happening in this instance. Moderators have tools to catch IP dupes, but they are not detectives nor do they evaluate for truth.

I'm not directing this at anyone, because I see similarities in threads about products like Korg Kronos & SV-1, to Roland FP-4F, Yamaha YPD-141, etc...so I hope others can see my perspective.

There is absolutely no evidence that anyone bothers with evidence before being influenced by the opinions of anonymous forum posters. Should there be? In a small industry with little in the way of detailed independent reviews, constant cries for genuine innovation, fewer brick & mortar retail outlets where someone might be able to try for themselves, we can't ignore the effect of the same 10 people kicking the same ball around every few months on the casual lurkers that might drop in. Change any one of those factors, and the impact drops to negligible - just a footnote as part of a shopper's due diligence.

The V-piano is expensive with high expectations. I'm not surprised at critical reviews about a flagship product. I lose interest when the same grievance appears half a dozen times in half a dozen threads, which I feel is different than sharing an opinion. It plays out like an agenda.

You got it wrong, I own a V-Piano, and I still own all of the instruments I've ever bought. It is amazing how discussion about the V-Piano brings in so much hate out of people who don't even own one. When going to a B&M that has a V-Piano or any digital piano to demo, it is very important to take high end headphones with you. I have never seen high end headphones or speakers attached to any of the keyboards over the years from Mars Music (when it was still around) Sam Ashe, or Guitar Center. The speakers that are there are also on average are very old and falling apart for the most part (terrible sound). The two V-piano's at Sam Ashe were banged up on all four corners and the keys have a nasty look to them after all the greasy hands playing it. The V-piano out in a showroom really is meant to be played in a control environment. For being a high end product, in those B&M's mentioned it is treated like any other keyboard. For people to want to spend twice as much or three times as much for a product, it really has to be that good. I am not saying the V-piano is worth $3,000 more than a Roland RD-700NX. However if you are nitpicky about piano sound like me, it is. That market is a very small one, as musicians and recording artists interested to have one in a studio environment, or a couple people in bands willing to take them on tour. However there are a few of us who are none of the above who purchased one because they want the best of the best. I for one spent a lot of time making up my mind. I did try out the AG series since I was curious about it. It did not sound or feel any better than my current CLP990 to make the leap. Now if it was sampled off of a Yamaha CFX, perhaps I would be telling a different tune, however even then the sampled sound is not for me anymore.

Granted, I am happy with the results that bennevis has come with in regards to the Yamaha CFX sound on the V-Piano. It is very close if anyone is interested in hearing. It is nice to have a thread where owners can share sounds created as well. No other digital offers that type of control at the moment.

Check out this thread below where users who own a V-piano can share their user created presets.

https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1578653/V-Piano%20presets%20exchange!%20How%20.html#Post1578653



It is hard to believe anyone is naive enough to think this doesn't happen..lol..

Could it not be argued that the reverse is also possible - i.e. hiring folks to continuously post positive comments about products, in an effort to improve their reputation.

Please note that I do not believe either happens here on PianoWorld - I am merely pointing out that it is equally possible.

Cheers,
James
x

I can only really recall one instance where I thought someone was being paid to post information here (and I may have been wrong about that) - and that was positive information. It seemed laughable to most of us, given the low stature of the particular brand, the glowing tributes and the endlessly repetitive posts, although I could see casual visitors being influenced (maybe).

Recently someone popped up (and I don't mean Dr Popper!) to say that the Yamaha CP series was not discontinued, and I suspected that that person was connected with the brand, but no value judgments were offered by that member.

I believe that most of us who come here regularly would be able to spot plants, and other than those isolated cases mentioned above, I don't recall anyone posting as if they were incognito industry reps. One or two retailers may have "crossed the line" occasionally by not revealing their status and bias, but that also is rare. On the other hand some non-affiliated members are very partisan about their instruments, and "dig in" hard when challenged - but that's not the same thing as being a plant.

What I do regret, though, is the tendency for discussions to degenerate into personal attacks. The V-Piano threads seem very prone to that! I can't see the point in endless attacks and counterattacks without anything new being learned. People have different requirements and tastes, and there is no point in lambasting someone who simply has a different preference to one's own.

Beyond any of that, trying to tear down the poster instead of discussing their points is in really bad form. Either their points hold water or they don't. Attacking the poster just makes the person doing it look bad.

This thread degenerated after a couple forum members thought a portion of my post was directed at them. It does seem since the V-Piano is different than the rest of the sampled pianos, it brings with it a lot of emotions, good and bad.

I believe there is a need for Roland to continue to support the V-Piano with at least one more update. It would spark a more positive discussion from owners and also those on the fence about buying one. I do not know Roland's future marketing plans for the V-Piano however they currently aren't doing anything at all.

In a way I do wish there were more V-Piano and or V-Piano Grand owners who would join this forum so they could contribute to bennevis's voice sharing thread. However I have come to the realization that is not going to happen anytime soon. Perhaps when Roland moves past the Supernatural line and modeling technology encompases all of their pianos where the same user settings can be applied. For that the technology inside the V-Piano needs to get a lot less expensive to manufacturer, or Roland would have to make back the money on Research and Development first to warant a drop in price and mid range products utilizing the tech. Either way, I do feel modeling is the future and even if it takes Yamaha five years, I think they too will eventually come out with the same.

it won't happen because those instruments are ridiculously overpriced. V-Piano grand is actually sick overpriced so don't expect too many crazy owners Digital or modeled piano should be less expensive then acoustic and in that case is the opposite

Not so. Check out TADutchman's thread for Kawai CA63 and 93 owners.

No, it degenerated when you made thinly veiled references to me and one or two others, then denied it with a very dismissive, arrogant retort when asked to state your case more directly.

So, who was your comment referring to?

Let's remember that the very positive and then the negative or at least shall we say qualified comments generally come from a few posters:

Me - had a V-Piano, got rid of it because I didn't like the tone (regardless of all the fiddling around that is possible).
Lawrence (MelodialWorks Music) - had a V-Piano, got rid of it for the same reasons.
Dr. Popper - Professional musician, played a V-Piano many times, hates it.
Bruce (bfb) - Got a V-Piano, not enamoured with the tone so uses it exclusively to control software now and would have got rid of it had it not cost him so much. Thinks Roland should further develop it.
Richard (pv88) - Got a V-Piano. Hears issues with the tone and is having problems with the keys but is prepared to tolerate those problems for all the good things the V does.
bennevis - Got a V-Piano, very happy with it. Had replacement keys due to wear.
Kona - Got a V-Piano, very happy with it, no issues with the piano but frustrated Roland have done diddly-squat with the concept since launch.
DazedandConfused - Plays a V regularly, likes it very much, intends to buy one at some point in the future.

Have I missed anyone with lots of personal experience of the V that very often contributes to V-Piano threads? So, Kona - who was your comment referring to?

Lets get this straight ... I don't shrill for ANYONE
I had a V-Piano I thought it's mid range sounded artificial and terrible so I off loaded it end of story.
I have a RD700NX which is also a Roland and I think its pretty damm good and much better then the V-piano ever was.
I think the JP-80 is the best board I've played for years ... so don't give me BS about any anti Roland bias or anti V-piano bias.
I have absolutely nothing at stake whatsoever ... I didn't spend thousands of dollars on a V-piano so I didn't have to defend my decision.
All I ever say is the ONLY people I know who like the V-piano are amateur players who actually have bought one themselves and feel the need to defend it. These are coincidentally the only people who can't seem to hear its awful synthetic mid range. I like many other ex V owners here don't think much of the V-piano but we have no reason to fool ourselves unlike those who shelled out whatever absurd amount of money Roland asks for it.

And lets clear up some misinformation .... on V-piano sales
Roland have not sold many V-pianos at all ... which is why so few owners come on the forum. V-Piano owners are rare.
As for the person who stated as a fact the V-piano Grand is outselling Yamaha's AG ...well lets talk facts.
There have been less the 30 V-Grands delivered worldwide (yep 30 !!!) ... Yamaha has sold over 2000 AG's ....

Now I don't much like the AG either so don't accuse me of being a AG shrill ... it's just the facts.

Nothing wrong with Roland in fact I believe they make the best stage piano in the world and have the best DP technology but the V isn't it. The RD700NX is a far better board with less flaws then the V. The V is a interesting exercise but it isn't there yet.
What fools you all is that it's got a amazing connective feel to it unlike any other DP and that makes you think its good. But it might feel good playing it (as the CP1 does) the V's sound is fatally flawed (not that this clique of V owners can hear it).

I've got no agenda against the V ...only a agenda against poor sounding pianos but I'm going to call it how I see it because if I can stop some cashed up newbie who is listening to one of these V love fest threads from dropping $5k plus on something that's a complete waste of money then I will.

Methinks you doth protest too much....