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#1898920 05/18/12 12:36 AM
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Why is it referred to as the 'cheaters' pedal? Technically in Grand piano's it's a "shift" pedal, so when depressed the hammers don't strike all the strings. Surely this colors and changes tonal quality. But I've heard it's really a crutch for playing Pianissimo? Which to some degree can also be a valid statement.

If a composer calls out "una corda" in the score should the left pedal be ignored? I'm curious on what teachers think and/or tell their students about the left pedal when inquired upon.

Since I have a Vertical piano I don't get the 'true' shifting, it just brings the hammers closer to the strings. But I can still hear an impact on tonal quality vs. using, compared without using and playing Pianissimo (or trying to for that matter).

Any thoughts?


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monads #1898926 05/18/12 12:48 AM
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If the composer calls for 'una corda' then there is a reason and one shouldn't ignore it. Now keep in mind that it could be that older works are to be debated (I mean who knows how the una corda pedal worked 250 years ago?), but in contemporary scores it's a very true and effective way to change the colours!

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Nikolas,

I grew up mostly not having a "soft pedala". As you very well know, that thing on an upright is a JOKE. Depressing only pushes the hammers closer to the strings, and although THEORETICALLY it is supposed to allow us to play "softer", it adds "lost motion" to the keys. Suddenly it is as if the action is out of regulation, and to me it just feel uneven.

The moment I had the opportunity to play on concert grands, the una corda opened up a whole new universe of sounds, and I have never seen any famous pianist, playing music demanding a large dynamic range and subtle shading, avoid using it - quite the contrary.

That does not mean that it can't be over used, or used for the wrong reason.

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I know a lot of professional pianists use the una corda a lot for touches here and there. Personally, it depends on the instrument I'm playing on. My Petrof is already nice and warm, and I think the una corda sounds too muddy and lacking in resonance to use, whereas on my Yamaha it can really give the desired effect.

It's only a "cheat" for young students, so I don't introduce it to them early on (even though I explain it's purpose). I never call it the soft pedal, but I explain it changes the color of the sound.


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monads #1899132 05/18/12 10:07 AM
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On a grand the una corda changes both tone and volume. Generally I don't like the una corda tone, but well if the composer asks for ppp it seems the only way to get close (pp being the softest that I can go with reliable playing)?


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monads #1899174 05/18/12 11:31 AM
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The una corda pedal does two things - slightly lessens the volume and changes the color of the sound.

If the composer marks it or if it gives you the desired color, then it should be used.

But there are two problems:

FIrst, a lot of people use the pedal to get a softer sound because they can't do it with their hands. It's a crutch.

Second, it's a bad crutch, because the effect the una corda pedal has varies widely from one piano to another. On some, the effect is pronounced; on others, it's barely noticeable.


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monads #1899178 05/18/12 11:43 AM
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Kreisler, so what do you do when it comes to ppp or even more ps without any una corda marking?


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monads #1899186 05/18/12 11:51 AM
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You play all dynamics in relationship to each other and within the context of the piece. The quieter the dynamic, the slower the push into the key.


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monads #1899187 05/18/12 11:52 AM
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As a pianist I probably shouldn't say this but I don't like the una-corda pedal....muted sounds to my ear sound like something is missing......so I rarely use it.

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monads #1899279 05/18/12 02:24 PM
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I advocate using the una corda whenever you want to bring down the volume and change the tone color. I recently learned that you can even use "shades" of una corda. The effect is very slight, but it could mean the difference between ppp and pppp.

It's a tool.


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Originally Posted by wouter79
Kreisler, so what do you do when it comes to ppp or even more ps without any una corda marking?


Depends on the context.


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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monads #1899332 05/18/12 04:06 PM
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Thanks for everyone's comments/insight. I will avoid using the left pedal on my vertical then since it's not a true "una corda".

What's odd is why a high-end vertical, like a Kawai K8, would include a sostenuto pedal, but not the left "shift" pedal feature?


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monads, is it a true sostenuto pedal (I assume you mean the middle pedal), or a bass sustain?


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Originally Posted by Kreisler

FIrst, a lot of people use the pedal to get a softer sound because they can't do it with their hands. It's a crutch.

Second, it's a bad crutch, because the effect the una corda pedal has varies widely from one piano to another. On some, the effect is pronounced; on others, it's barely noticeable.

Kreisler,

I would say that a student needs to be able to play any passage without it, to get a an idea what changes when it is used.

I also think that we, as teachers, need to be explicit about how and when we use it, and when we do not.

One thought: if we do not teach our students some guidelines, I think they are MORE likely to use it unwisely, on their own. My students, in general, have always been almost afraid of it. It is as if it is one thing too many to deal with, so IF they finally get the courage to try it, then down it goes and they forget that they have it down. Then when you say, "Do you know you have the soft pedal down?" you get a look of surprise. smile

About the name: it's much like "piano". I explain how that word and others is pronounced in Italian, but I don't then expect "pi AH no". So I explain the concept of una corde, explain that today it is a combination of una corde and due corda, explain how it works, then use the more popular "soft pedal" with no feeling of guilt. smile

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I myself rarely use the una corda as well, preferring to get my colors through technique. I've also had times when I played on a piano whose una corda was terrible (and sometimes even the tre corda was terrible, hello finger pedal) so I make sure my students can get the sound they want without it. Then adding the una corda gives the piece that extra bit of electricity and hush that it needs. But just in case the piano is terrible and it is not an available option, the pianist needs to do it.


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Originally Posted by Minaku
I myself rarely use the una corda as well, preferring to get my colors through technique. I've also had times when I played on a piano whose una corda was terrible (and sometimes even the tre corda was terrible, hello finger pedal) so I make sure my students can get the sound they want without it. Then adding the una corda gives the piece that extra bit of electricity and hush that it needs. But just in case the piano is terrible and it is not an available option, the pianist needs to do it.

I once, LONG ago, had to perform on a piece of junk. The worst grand I ever had to play on. I depressed the soft pedal, and the whole action did not function. I made an immediate mental note that this was not an option and continued without it.

So yes, we have to be prepared to play without it.

But I still think there are few compositions with a wide dynamic range that do not suffer from the loss of extra colors available that are available on a superb piano - when the pedal is not used to good effect.

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Originally Posted by monads
Thanks for everyone's comments/insight. I will avoid using the left pedal on my vertical then since it's not a true "una corda".

What's odd is why a high-end vertical, like a Kawai K8, would include a sostenuto pedal, but not the left "shift" pedal feature?


It's because of the action of an upright piano vs. a grand. The upright is vertical, thus things have to be different. In what way, I do not know, but it affects the action for the una corda (which really should be changed to "due cordi" since most "una corda"s play 2 of the strings). Since it cannot shift the entire mechanism, the compromise on an upright is that the hammer is closer thus you are unable to get full volume. But it doesn't change the tone at all, and as Gary (I think) said, it makes it harder to play well because of the inconsistency.


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Morodiene,

Where is Jerry when we need him? smile

I always took pianos apart when I was young, NOT something I would recommend to ANYONE who is not an experienced tech, but here is what I encountered, and this is based on WATCHING a fantastic tech who moved her from NY.

There is a simple adjustment that takes care of what is called "lost motion", and a piano that is otherwise in good shape, not needing a good deal of regulation otherwise, can be "tweaked" when this lost action, over time increases a bit.

The result, for us, the people who just use the instruments, is that when you press a key down on your piano, there is a tiny bit of movement before you feel the key actually start to "engage the action". And keys are never adjusted right to the top, because they can be OVERADJUSTED so that the keys are actually partially setting the hammers in motion, so to speak, before they are even pressed.

So basically the idea is to get it as close to bang on but to ensure that it is not too much. There might be a 10th of an inch "play", something very small, which is why I would like Jerry to be here to correct me. I may not have it quite right.

The point is that on any well regulated piano we don't even notice any lost action, because whatever is there is SO small that the fingers do not feel it. It's sort of the idea of what is the difference between perfect and undetectable.

Now, the moment the soft pedal is depressed on an upright, lost action is increased as a by the action itself being pushed forward. So as the hammer striking distance is reduced, the action becomes "sloppy". On at least some uprights I believe you can see the keys fall a tiny amount. Regardless, you can certainly feel the lost action.

And this is just one reason I DESPISE uprights. Another is the cripplingly-slow repetition. The first time I finally had access to practicing on a good grand I had trouble controlling it. The keys felt harder to depress. I felt as if I did not have adequate strength in my fingers for fast passage work.

But as I got used to the different feel, I realized that I was developing a slightly different finger technique, very hard to describe, and I got back all the velocity and feeling of stamina that I had lost (through incorrect technique), and my feeling since that time has been that a good grand, a REALLY good one, gives you the feeling that you can do just about anything.

For the same reason, when the soft pedal is beautifully regulated, there are simply cool sounds that you can get with it that you can't get without it. And the difference in sound is HUGE, once you atune yourself to it, because the result of that shifting of the action is much the same as when a tuner is hitting strings with one of the side strings damped.

To illustrate, when a tuner sets your regulation, he blocks off the outer strings for any unison so that only the middle string is audible. But in order to finish the job, he has to remove the mute either on the left or the right of the three strings, in order to first tune one string to the middle, then the other.

If you listen to your tuner do this, you will notice that there is a HUGE difference in sound when one of the outer strings is blocked off with the mute.

And since the whole treble sounds with this result when the soft pedal is depressed, with one of the outer strings of each unison now effectively muted (because it is not struck), the effect is very close to what I mentioned. Now, since the string not hit is still free to vibrate sympathetically, it is not quite the same thing, but it is VERY close.

So the sound is "thinner". What else can it be when three strings sounding in unison are reduced to two? And it is purer too, literally, because each string has impurities or singularities, especially noticeable in the higher treble, so all false beats are cut down to 2/3rds. It's not just theoretical to say that you will then hear fewer beats, because you are dealing with tiny, tiny, TINY beats that result from just HOURS of shifting temperature and other factors after a tuning in ADDITION to false beats, which are always there.

Jerry, where are you? frown

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Jerry!! Wheres' Jerry!!! Here I am!!! What did I do now???? Am I in trouble in again dad??? smile

When I was a kid when something broke in the house, I was the only boy with 4 sisters so, JERRY DID IT!!! Where is that Jerry!!!!??? I have heard that line since I could walk. Unfortunately, while it was not always true, sometimes the sisters did it and blamed me, I was a stinker, so it was 'probably true!!...' smile smile

una corda, soft pedal, shift pedal, cheaters pedal. On grand's it "shifts" the action to the right, although on certain grand's (older ones) it shifts the action to the left. I usually just call it the "soft pedal" because then all clients know what I mean. You'd be surprised at how often I call it the una corda pedal and people say HUH!? So, soft pedal it is.... wink

On Steinway's, the una corda pedal is adjusted so that the hammer strikes in between the existing grooves on the hammers. All three strings are still being struck, barely, usually, just in a different spot on the hammer.

On most other pianos, the una corda pedal is adjusted so that only 2 strings on the piano are being hit when the una corda pedal is engaged. Don't ask me why one manufacturer decides to do one thing and others another... I don't know. confused

If you move the una corda pedal only part way, say, a fraction of an inch, a difference in sound or if you prefer, tone will be noticed. This is more prevalent and different on grand's because the hammer is actually being moved into a different striking position shifting over the entire keyboard. Whereas on vertical's, it is only moving the hammer line forward. The rest of the keyboard and action stays in place.

On verticals, it should move the hammer line forward enough however, to make a considerable difference. That will vary from piano to piano to piano though.

How much difference one notices varies according to how much the pedal is adjusted or rather, how far, that pedal is allowed to travel down, and/or how far the hammer line is allowed to move forward. It will also vary a lot, if the pedal itself has lost motion or is not adjusted properly. Many technicians do not even bother removing the bottom board on verticals EVER. I hear a lot, "WOW! Nobody has ever removed that before!" Well, the pedals do need adjusting from time to time and that should be done during a tuning.

On some verticals, the hammer line may be adjusted such, so that the hammer line will barely move forward at all. While on the next piano, it may move forward a lot. Obviously, the further forward the hammer line travels, the more it will affect the amount of sound that is projected. Move the hammer line forward with the soft pedal 1/2" and it will probably not be noticeable. Move it 3" and there will be a considerable difference in volume.

Using or, not using any pedal on the piano is a matter of taste and preference. How much or how little it is used is a personal preference, in my opinion, anyway.

I was at a concert recently where the una corda pedal was not used at all! Everything they played, louder, softer, whatever, was done with the touch of their fingers. That person had great control over the piano.

On the other hand, the concert prior to that was just the opposite. That person preferred using the pedal frequently for softer passages. Whether it was the songs requirements or that person's, I cannot answer.

One thing that makes it different or, difficult to control the touch on any piano will be this. if they are poorly regulated. Moving the hammers forward on a piano with 1/2" of let off rather than 1/8" or less, will make it MUCH MORE difficult to control how or when the hammer hits the strings on an easy blow. The hammer is traveling 1/2" further away from the string than it should. So, even without the use of the soft pedal, it would be difficult to control the touch on a poorly regulated piano. Especially for a beginner child.

To touch on that for a minute. That is one of the most frustrating things I encounter and, one of the most difficult to get the laymen to realize. They will tell me that "it is good enough for my child to learn on. If they get better, I will buy them a better piano." 99% of these people, do not play the piano themselves and of course, can't even begin to understand the mechanics of it. Trying to get them to understand that a well regulated piano and a well tuned piano will make a world of difference is nearly impossible and even if they do understand it, most simply do not care which is unfortunate because, I can virtually guarantee that, that child of theirs will become so frustrated at practicing that they will quit. The parent will say, see? I was right! Whereas, I will say, see, you were wrong. They quit because of what I told you. Maybe we could all work together to better inform the public on that one. wink

Back to the point. Removing lost motion is not always so simple on verticals. It effects how soon the dampers will engage. The more lost motion is removed, the sooner dampers will engage thus, creating a heavier touch so we must always look at the whole picture. Why does the piano have lost motion? What exactly, needs regulation and why? What is the best solution to resolve this lost motion and what will be affected when we do remove it or give it more?

For a simple answer, lost motion comes from the felts and leathers compacting and from wear and tear most of the time.

Changing thoughts... The other day, while working on a high end grand, and using the "soft pedal" :), I did not like the distance that it was traveling and the, well, rough sound that it was creating so, I lessened the distance that the action could travel by around 1/32" or so. That made a world of difference in the color that was now being produced compared to the sound I had a minute before then. So, it does not take much to make a larger difference.

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"The result, for us, the people who just use the instruments, is that when you press a key down on your piano, there is a tiny bit of movement before you feel the key actually start to "engage the action". And keys are never adjusted right to the top, because they can be OVER-ADJUSTED so that the keys are actually partially setting the hammers in motion, so to speak, before they are even pressed."


When this happens, (keys that are over adjusted) more often than not, keys stick. There needs to be a certain amount of lost motion in order for all of the pianos parts to fall back into place again. Without it, they are forced to stay in the "up position." When you go to press the key down, especially with some force, what we call the "jack" can slide out of place not allowing the hammer to move at all and/or, the jack may not be allowed to slide back underneath of the hammer if there is no lost motion at all thus, creating a non working key. My description of how much lost motion there should be? The key should just "tweak", that is, barely move, before the rest of the action follows.

Speaking of that, the thing that I encounter most often when I get a complaint of keys sticking when a child plays, is because the child (on verticals) is not lifting the key up all of the way, thus, not allowing the jack to fall back underneath the hammer. The jack, is what pushes the hammer forward. The key must be let up high enough for the jack to fall back into place again.

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"On at least some uprights I believe you can see the keys fall a tiny amount. Regardless, you can certainly feel the lost action."


This can be eliminated by adjusting the bridal straps forward or backward accordingly so that the keys do not move at all. It can also be adjusted by changing the travel of the hammer line.

What Gary describes above is good.

When I voice a piano, I also use mutes. I use them to locate the strings that are louder or softer or are producing different sounds or tones than the other ones are. By only allowing one string to sound at a time, I listen to the sound that is being produced by each string, and then determine whether that is indeed a voicing issue, or if it is the hammer itself that is the problem? OR if the string itself is not in proper alignment or height (in the case of the wire) to the hammer or the other way around. Technically, this is all a part of voicing as what you do to one of these, affects the over all sound of that one wire or note.

I will either file the hammer to change the "level" of "IT" on that one spot where it engages that one wire, or I may raise or lower the level of the string to match the hammer. I may choose to needle the hammer in a certain area to change or match the tone of the other two strings. It is very intensive work and very important to achieving the best tone possible with and without the use of the soft pedal.

Concert grand's are very time consuming. Especially when working directly with the artist just prior to a concert as I did just last week.

This was especially thrilling for me because she was very astute in her observations of what I was doing. Needling here this time but, elsewhere on the next spot on that same hammer. Leveling strings on this one but, not on that one. Removing the action to work on that hammer but, leaving it in, to work on the next wire. It is enjoyable to work with someone like that.

False beats are a pain!!!!! On some pianos we can eliminate them. On others, we cannot. They come from a variety of reason; from the string being kinking while being installed, to a poor quality wire, to strings needing to be seated, to a piano that is just plain lousy quality.

So, Did I help? Or, did I confuse everyone? smile


Jerry Groot RPT
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Grand Rapids, Michigan
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Jerry, what I learn from your postings is to appreciate a good technician/tuner!

What are false beats? And (you didn't mention it here, but I've seen the term elsewhere) what is inharmonicity?

It would be fun to have a grand with a real una corda pedal (unlike my upright) so I could listen to the difference in sound quality. But what I really thirst for is a true sostenuto pedal. I've started to eyeball my small living room and imagine if a grand piano could possibly fit. Not that I can afford it, but one can dream. I'll have to finagle my way into using the practice pianos -- all grands -- at the local college.


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