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#1902501 - 05/24/12 05:18 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19200
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Old Man

The concept outlined by the OP is so strange, maybe even bizarre, that reading the OP's proof of concept might have made for some fascinating, if not downright entertaining give-and-take.
I think the only unusual thing about the OP's idea is the idea of a "tour". It's just an extension of the idea of a classical musician performing at a private function which is not so rare. Weddings have this fairly frequently(string quartets, etc.).

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#1902519 - 05/24/12 05:53 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
BruceD Offline
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17799
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
[...] it is quite common for non classical performers to perform at private parties, and I have seen musicians' websites that advertize this service. It is probably less common for classical performers to do so but not unheard of.


Yes, that much I understand: musicians looking for "gigs," and publicly advertising their services to those who may seek them. Just about every professional advertises his services in some way, from the Yellow Pages to business cards, to newspaper ads to flyers in the hope/expectation that the client will come to him. Is there not some difference between those and an artist/agent seeking out the specific clients - only those with high-end pianos - with the expectation that they would arrange parties not for themselves but for the artist and that would coincide with the artist's (local? nation-wide?) travel "tour" and ... (everything else I said above)?

No need for anyone to answer - unless s/he feels compelled to do so. I'll just resolve not to understand the full sense of the original request and go on to other things.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1902526 - 05/24/12 06:01 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I think the only unusual thing about the OP's idea is the idea of a "tour". It's just an extension of the idea of a classical musician performing at a private function which is not so rare. Weddings have this fairly frequently(string quartets, etc.).

Agreed. But what I found strange, in addition to the tour aspect, was the requirement for a "high end" piano. The OP says his artist "has a thing" for pianos, that he's seeking the "best private" pianos, etc. I would think that if his interest were purely pecuniary, he might settle for a piano that's "in tune" and has 88 keys. But he seems to be looking for pianos that are of extremely high quality, so he can build a network of potential venues for his tour (not to mention his encore tours).

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#1902536 - 05/24/12 06:18 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Posts: 19200
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I agree with Old Man and Bruce about the "high end" part also being unusual.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/24/12 06:46 PM)

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#1902537 - 05/24/12 06:19 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
Mark_C Offline
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19603
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Old Man
....Initially the OP laid all his cards on the table: My artist wants to play privately-owned, high-quality pianos for money. How might I go about discovering who and where these owners are? I didn't sense in any of his posts that he was hawking his wares. He seemed to be simply asking "how should I begin?".

With all due respect, you're wrong. smile

He deliberately misrepresented the emphasis (it has little to do with trying high-quality pianos; it's about getting paid by the people who have those kinds of pianos) and deliberately misrepresented his degree of knowledge and expertise on what he was asking about. He knew how "to begin"; as he later conceded, he's the guy's agent, and he's been doing it.

Quote:
I guess one could infer that he was really asking "Anyone on this forum interested?", but he didn't say that.

I think it's very likely that's what he was looking for. You seem to be taking the view merely that it's not certain that he was, and you're right. But that's not how we normally judge things, is it? I don't know about you, but unless it's a court of law or something like that, I go on what seems likely.

The only problem I had with any of what he was doing was the misrepresentations, which were substantial.

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#1902548 - 05/24/12 06:41 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19200
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Old Man
....Initially the OP laid all his cards on the table: My artist wants to play privately-owned, high-quality pianos for money. How might I go about discovering who and where these owners are? I didn't sense in any of his posts that he was hawking his wares. He seemed to be simply asking "how should I begin?".

With all due respect, you're wrong. smile
There you go again, stating your opinion as if it was factual.

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
He deliberately misrepresented the emphasis (it has little to do with trying high-quality pianos; it's about getting paid by the people who have those kinds of pianos) and deliberately misrepresented his degree of knowledge and expertise on what he was asking about. He knew how "to begin"; as he later conceded, he's the guy's agent, and he's been doing it.{/quote]How could you possibly know what his empahsis was? As far as misrepresenting his expertise, he stated only he had booked a several gigs thus far. Hardly indicative of an expert needing no help and really just advertising.

Quote:
I guess one could infer that he was really asking "Anyone on this forum interested?", but he didn't say that.
I think it's very like that's what he was looking for. You seem to be taking the view merely that it's not certain that he was, and you're right. But that's not how we normally judge things, is it? I don't know about you, but unless it's a court of law or something like that, I go on what seems likely.
I certainly didn't think that Old Man was "taking the view merely that it's not certain that he was". "What seems likely" is only what you think is likely. Clearly, other posters didn't agree.

Originally Posted By: Mark C
The only problem I had with any of it was the BS misrepresentations -- which they were indeed.
In the very first post the thread, the OP clearly indicated both that he was the pianist's agent and the pianist wanted to be paid. He said "convince them to pay my artist to play on their pianos for a private party".

But that wasn't enough for you. You continued sarcastically criticizing and ridiculing him. He finally said his thread was "a bad idea" which was probably his reaction to your bullying and not an apology. Your reply to this comment was the condescending "If that's an admission, it's admirable."

When I first read this thread I thought the OP hadn't made things clear about him being the agent and the pianist getting paid until his third post. Rereading the thread I see he made this clear in his opening post. I find most of the criticism totally unfair.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/24/12 07:20 PM)

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#1902583 - 05/24/12 07:51 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

With all due respect, you're wrong. smile

With all due respect?! Please, I'm not that freakin' old! smile

Seriously, Mark, I take your point, and you are probably right about his true intentions, but I don't think he misrepresented anything. His opening post said this:

Originally Posted By: Superchibisan

I have a rough idea: Locate people who own high end pianos and somehow convince them to pay my artist to play on their pianos for a private party.

So my point was, why not take his words at face value, and let him reveal himself? I have no problem with people ridiculing his ideas, or peppering him with questions as BruceD did. He's fair game, and it would have been interesting to read his responses.

If his question "Anyone have any ideas?" was truly sincere, he'd respond to any and all queries. But if his motives were suspect, as you suggest, he'd conclude that this was not fertile ground for advancing his business pursuits, and would've taken his marbles and gone home.

What I so admired about the late Tim Russert's journalistic style was that he never went on the attack with his guests. He would simply read a quote, or play a video of a speech his interviewee had given, and then ask, with that sweet, baby-faced smile, "Now, what in the world made you say that?"

I think a little more of that attitude would enhance these threads considerably. Simply let people have their say, and all (or at least, enough) will be revealed in good time.

BTW, Mark, I enjoy your posts. You always seem willing to be helpful and informative, and you take on your critics with warmth and humor. I say this in spite of any opinions to the contrary from stores or pianoloverus. grin

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#1902605 - 05/24/12 09:01 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
Mark_C Offline
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Posts: 19603
Loc: New York
OldMan: I appreciate that even in such disagreement, your tone is so gracious and friendly. We do disagree on how we see what the OP was doing, and so we have quite different views on what kinds of replies to him were appropriate. Regarding that more would have been revealed if there had been the chance, I think it was already well enough revealed. I know that you don't necessarily agree -- although I see that you do agree I was "probably" right about his intent. Since you agree with that, I find it quite surprising that you'd be so critical of the tack that I took, because that means you agree that probably his approach was intentionally misleading. But heck, none of us can expect to ever stop being surprised. smile

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#1902772 - 05/25/12 07:11 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7741
Originally Posted By: Old Man

Bruce, you've made my point beautifully. You're not the only one "missing" something. We've all "missed" something because the OP never felt comfortable enough to begin addressing the many excellent questions you posed.

The concept outlined by the OP is so strange, maybe even bizarre, that reading the OP's proof of concept might have made for some fascinating, if not downright entertaining give-and-take. But since his integrity was impugned so early in the thread, he abandoned ship, so your questions will have to remain unanswered. It's not the end of the world, but I do wish these threads could be allowed to develop on their own for a while before the "serious police" come in and run the OP out of town on a rail.


The thread DID develop on its own, to my way of thinking. And the OP was hardly "run out of town" - in fact, he is still totally free to post, as far as I know. That he left was his own choice alone.

He had already asked for the thread to be deleted or locked before he was even identified (but he was so unfamiliar with the forum that he didn't even know how to make that happen, nor, it seems, did he pursue it very far, since it remains unlocked).

Maybe he got an inkling of how utterly whacked out his idea was - that's my hypothesis. At any rate, his last visit here was on the same day that he registered, which to my mind, tells us a lot about his interest in being a participant in this forum.

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#1902791 - 05/25/12 07:40 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: wr]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Registered: 05/29/01
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Originally Posted By: wr

The thread DID develop on its own, to my way of thinking. And the OP was hardly "run out of town" - in fact, he is still totally free to post, as far as I know. That he left was his own choice alone.
Several posters were rude to him was the reason he left.


Originally Posted By: wr
Maybe he got an inkling of how utterly whacked out his idea was - that's my hypothesis. At any rate, his last visit here was on the same day that he registered, which to my mind, tells us a lot about his interest in being a participant in this forum.
I have yet to see any posts that explain why his idea was "whacked out". It is certainly not unheard of for classical performers to play at private parties or events. In fact, there is a recent thread at PW where a request for pianists to do this is the topic. The only parts of his idea that are a little different from this are his wish to set up a tour and desire to play only on high tier pianos.

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#1902803 - 05/25/12 08:10 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6052
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

Originally Posted By: wr
Maybe he got an inkling of how utterly whacked out his idea was - that's my hypothesis. At any rate, his last visit here was on the same day that he registered, which to my mind, tells us a lot about his interest in being a participant in this forum.
I have yet to see any posts that explain why his idea was "whacked out". It is certainly not unheard of for classical performers to play at private parties or events. In fact, there is a recent thread at PW where a request for pianists to do this is the topic. The only parts of his idea that are a little different from this are his wish to set up a tour and desire to play only on high tier pianos.


I thought it was worded a little funny but I read it like this:

"How do I populate a list of rich people with very nice pianos and talk them into paying my pianist to perform at their next party? Here's a forum filled with pianists (presumably), perhaps they know some of these people. Maybe they have nice pianos themselves that are unfulfilled."

I don't think the high end piano part was as strange as you seem to think, I just thought it was his way of saying he didn't want his artist to encounter an unplayable piece of junk. It didn't seem to me like English was his first language.
_________________________
Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.

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#1902816 - 05/25/12 08:55 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
For the sake of discussion, I know a guy who lives in the burbs north of New York city whose main hobby is collecting old European (ie Bosies, Faz, Bechstein and Hamburg) pianos and rebuilding them, often in Eastern Europe for much less money than it would cost here. The first floor of his house is akin to a showroom. And he does have piano parties whereby he invites pianists to play differnt pieces on different instruments. The ones I know of personally were grad students from J or some such neighborhood conservatories. Now I do not know if he pays them something but I would not be surprised if he did. Otherwise what is their incentive.

Having said that I am not supporting superchibisan (I love this name)'s approach etc.. Though I do not know that we needed to mount a wall of hostililty right off the bat. Who did he stand to harm?? Someone with a fabulous piano could have fallen for it? it would have made for an even juicier thread.


P.S. "unfulfilled pianos". Like that term too..

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#1902834 - 05/25/12 09:25 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Andromaque]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19200
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Though I do not know that we needed to mount a wall of hostililty right off the bat. Who did he stand to harm?? Someone with a fabulous piano could have fallen for it?
Fallen for what?

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#1902838 - 05/25/12 09:31 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Andromaque]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Andromaque

Though I do not know that we needed to mount a wall of hostililty right off the bat. Who did he stand to harm?? Someone with a fabulous piano could have fallen for it? it would have made for an even juicier thread.

You are exactly right. Everyone here is entitled to be suspicious about his motives and to express those concerns. And as I said to Mark C, he probably DID view this forum as a gateway to finding these high-end piano owners. But as you said, "Who did he stand to harm?" And since he had not yet explicitly said he was soliciting our business (which would have violated the forum's rules), it would have been much more interesting to simply let him expound on his grand tour idea. As you said, keeping him in the game would have made for a much "juicier thread."

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#1902842 - 05/25/12 09:37 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
what's with all the newbies playing piano police? honestly.. it makes PW look bad.. like some clique-y icky site.

Strategically run ads at the time of year when people have parties.. (Christmas for instance), put up signs, sign up with party and wedding planners.

best of luck.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1902844 - 05/25/12 09:39 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Though I do not know that we needed to mount a wall of hostililty right off the bat. Who did he stand to harm?? Someone with a fabulous piano could have fallen for it?
Fallen for what?


"it".. whatever it might be that got people worked up. smile

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#1902851 - 05/25/12 09:51 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19200
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Old Man
But as you said, "Who did he stand to harm?"
I think it's more like "What harm could he have possibly done?"

With no specific details I don't see how the post would qualify as an ad and clearly the moderators feel the same. No one really knows the OP's intention but if it was to solicit business, who cares? Some posters approach the OP's post with a reaction similar to a parent be lied to by their child or IMO an incredible degree of self righteousness.

I see no difference between the opening post, even if it's intention was to book recitals, and the numerous threads where people ask how best to sell their piano(assuming the post doesn't include lots of details about the piano). There have been tens of thousands of posts where the poster's self interest was far more evident than in the first post in this thread.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/25/12 09:57 AM)

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#1902852 - 05/25/12 09:53 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: PianogrlNW]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: PianogrlNW
Since you just joined PF today, you might want to look at the FAQs and general rules of conduct. This forum is not for promoting commercial enterprise (unless I'm mistaken). shocked


what's with the relatively new people playing PW police..? it seems very unwelcoming. I see no problem with the original question.

You might contact booking agents, party and wedding planners, running ads in small publications. I think wedding and event planners would be the best place to start.

Back when I was a kid (18) i ran an ad in an area of the Kansas City magazine for new businesses with a picture that said... "Piano playing - absolutely free! grands preferred." It was so cute and they printed it for free. I booked 14 parties and everyone paid me.. about 100 dollars.. I was in heaven. When i think that I was playing Chopin backwards (in a way) and had such a limited repertoire, I writhe in shame.
Best of luck to you. I am kind of embarrassed for this forum and sorry you had such a negative response to your question.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1902854 - 05/25/12 09:59 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
He was looking for "work" for his starving artist pianist, with home parties.. smile
all he had to say was PM me if interested.. no harm no foul..

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#1902897 - 05/25/12 11:13 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Mark_C Offline
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19603
Loc: New York
Plover: No, what was different was getting paid.

Originally Posted By: Damon
....I read it like this:

"How do I populate a list of rich people with very nice pianos and talk them into paying my pianist to perform at their next party?...."
I don't think the high end piano part was as strange as you seem to think, I just thought it was his way of saying he didn't want his artist to encounter an unplayable piece of junk....

IMO it was a handle for getting "rich people" without coming out and saying "I'm looking for rich people." grin

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#1902906 - 05/25/12 11:19 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Andromaque]
BDB Offline
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Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21201
Loc: Oakland
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
For the sake of discussion, I know a guy who lives in the burbs north of New York city whose main hobby is collecting old European (ie Bosies, Faz, ...


Old Faziolis?
_________________________
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#1902913 - 05/25/12 11:33 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19200
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Plover: No, what was different was getting paid.
Unless you think no pianist has ever gotten paid for a private performance this is not true.

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Damon
....I read it like this:

"How do I populate a list of rich people with very nice pianos and talk them into paying my pianist to perform at their next party?...."
I don't think the high end piano part was as strange as you seem to think, I just thought it was his way of saying he didn't want his artist to encounter an unplayable piece of junk....

IMO it was a handle for getting "rich people" without coming out and saying "I'm looking for rich people." grin
Who cares whether the people are rich or not? It's their money and they can do with it what they like. You are, as I have said earlier, just guessing about any motivation the OP had in his phrasing. And as I just pointed out, no matter what the idea of the post was, there are tens of thousands of posts at PW motivated by self interest.

I'm glad to see that the posters that see nothing wrong with the OP(and something wrong with those who were nasty to him) are in the majority at this point.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/25/12 11:39 AM)

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#1902919 - 05/25/12 11:44 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19603
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Plover: No, what was different was getting paid.
Unless you think no pianist has ever gotten paid for a private performance this is not true.

As much as I hate to say this ha you're wrong.
Look at what I was replying to:
your post that said....

Quote:
...there is a recent thread at PW where a request for pianists to do this is the topic. The only parts of his idea that are a little different from this are his wish to set up a tour and desire to play only on high tier pianos.


--------

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
...there are tens of thousands of posts at PW motivated by self interest.

That's fine -- as long as they're not presented in a misleading BS way. This was. I know you don't agree with that -- and that's probably why we won't agree on the rest of how we see it.

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#1902924 - 05/25/12 11:51 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
kb fanatic Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 19
Loc: Louisiana
This sounds like a bizarre scam to me. Why would anyone with a "high end" piano want to rent it out to a stranger for a party in one's own home.

This is beyond creepy. Superchibisan: If you seriously need to rent a piano for your artist for a party, GO TO A DEALERSHIP and rent one! No one in their right mind is going to rent their home and high end piano to you so you can have a party. If you are just looking for wealthy homes to burglarize, it seems like there must be an easier way than this.

If you are a piano lover, then make friends with other pianists in your area.

Thanks for a good laugh.

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#1902938 - 05/25/12 12:15 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

IMO it was a handle for getting "rich people" without coming out and saying "I'm looking for rich people." grin

Mark, are you serious? If I say, "I'm looking for yacht owners with boats at least 40 feet in length", am I really required to "come out" and say I'm looking for rich people? If I own one of "the best private pianos", and can afford to throw a party which includes a highly-paid pianist, I'm pretty sure I'm not a greeter at Walmart. I may not need to be rich, but I think "highly affluent" is probably a minimum requirement.

(Then again, my idea of a party is bags of Cheetos and a keg, or (if it's super fancy) little smokies in BBQ sauce, so what do I know?) laugh

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#1902948 - 05/25/12 12:46 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
Mark_C Offline
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19603
Loc: New York
OldMan: I really can't tell what you're raising there, what's your point. Honest.

Do you mean you think I was criticizing the fact that he was looking for rich people, or that he did it indirectly?

(I wasn't -- and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I criticized a lot else, but not that. The thing of mine that you quoted was just a comment/elaboration on the last part of what Damon said, that's all.)

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#1902953 - 05/25/12 12:59 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: kb fanatic]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Posts: 19200
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Originally Posted By: kb fanatic
This sounds like a bizarre scam to me. Why would anyone with a "high end" piano want to rent it out to a stranger for a party in one's own home.
Stranger? Do you think someone's going to hire a pianist to play at their house without talking to them first and finding out their credentials?? As has been pointed out, having a classical musician play at a private event for pay is far from unusual.

Originally Posted By: kb fanatic
This is beyond creepy. Superchibisan: If you seriously need to rent a piano for your artist for a party, GO TO A DEALERSHIP and rent one! No one in their right mind is going to rent their home and high end piano to you so you can have a party. If you are just looking for wealthy homes to burglarize, it seems like there must be an easier way than this.
The person having the party is not the pianist. If the performing pianist had to rent the piano for a private performance, it would leave him with little money after the performance.

Your last comment is so out line I have reported it to the moderators.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/25/12 01:02 PM)

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#1902959 - 05/25/12 01:08 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Mark, you are correct. I did misunderstand you. I didn't catch your reference to Damon's quote, so I thought you were criticizing the OP (among other things) for not disclosing upfront that his intended "market" was the wealthy.

So, to quote Emily Litella, "Never mind". blush

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#1902962 - 05/25/12 01:14 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19603
Loc: New York
Understandable -- I guess this has gotten to the point that everything I say looks like a criticism. ha

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#1902964 - 05/25/12 01:16 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19200
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

That's fine -- as long as they're not presented in a misleading BS way. This was. I know you don't agree with that -- and that's probably why we won't agree on the rest of how we see it.
As I and several people have specifically pointed out to you the OP was completely upfront about being the manager andabout his artist getting paid. He said it in his very first post. What part of "pay my artist to play" don't you understand?

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