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#1899359 - 05/18/12 04:47 PM Booking a tour of the best private pianos
Superchibisan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 7
I would like to book a tour of the best private piano in the United States.

Does anyone know where to start? I have a rough idea: Locate people who own high end pianos and somehow convince them to pay my artist to play on their pianos for a private party.

The music is up to par, so how to I find the people?

Anyone have any ideas?

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#1899362 - 05/18/12 04:48 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5223
Loc: Europe
quick question: Why?
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#1899375 - 05/18/12 05:03 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4977
Loc: boston north
Pay YOUR ARTIST to play?

Many contributing members here are welcome to visit other members homes.

Maybe you could start by doing this!

;-)
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#1899378 - 05/18/12 05:07 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Superchibisan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 7
Well my artist has a thing for pianos and private parties seem to be the best venues. We are setting up a tour and it would be great to be able to play some real pianos instead of digital.

This post is my first contribution to the website.

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#1899383 - 05/18/12 05:11 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
If you and he are looking to get paid for this, I think y'all probably need an agent.
(Seriously!)

BTW, it seems sort of like you're his agent.... smile

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#1899403 - 05/18/12 05:41 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
PianogrlNW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/22/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Seattle, WA
Since you just joined PF today, you might want to look at the FAQs and general rules of conduct. This forum is not for promoting commercial enterprise (unless I'm mistaken). shocked
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#1899406 - 05/18/12 05:45 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Another Country
Originally Posted By: Superchibisan
I would like to book a tour of the best private piano in the United States.

Does anyone know where to start? I have a rough idea: Locate people who own high end pianos and somehow convince them to pay my artist to play on their pianos for a private party.


At which point I curl up laughing.
_________________________
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#1899408 - 05/18/12 05:46 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Superchibisan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 7
I am not promoting anything. I am researching. I asked a question to a forum, I have not mentioned any product or person who is involved. I am merely asking others what they think. This does not violate any rules.

Yes, I am someone's agent. Manager if you will.

Getting paid is the goal, as well as playing some fine pianos. I am merely looking for the avenue to make the contacts necessary to make this tour happen.

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#1899423 - 05/18/12 06:12 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: New York
I think you're walking a fine line between advertising and not advertising. I don't know what the answer is. We'll see what others think, including the admins or mods.

But I definitely think it's a bit of an odd thing that you're pursuing -- and I absolutely think you're presenting this in a misleading way, whether on purpose or not. And I'd guess on purpose. You're presenting it as mainly a way to "tour the best private pianos." But that's not what it is, because if it were, you wouldn't be talking about getting paid. If anything, you'd be talking about paying.

My guess is you'll be kicked off the island.
(Going a lot on how you presented it. Seems manipulative and almost scammish to me.)

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#1899431 - 05/18/12 06:21 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Superchibisan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 7
I apologize if I am failing to communicate my intentions. I am not advertising anything. I have not mentioned the artist's actual identity in any way. Please don't concern yourself with the money aspect.

I want to book a tour. I would like to book private parties where there is an excellent piano onsite. Does anyone have any ideas on how to get this done? Is there a network of piano owners that would be interested in this?

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#1899432 - 05/18/12 06:27 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6224
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Superchibisan
Is there a network of piano owners that would be interested in this?

NO
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#1899433 - 05/18/12 06:27 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
Are you also saying there wouldn't need to be any pay?

Not that I know anyone who would be interested, but....if that's what you're saying, the whole thing becomes quite different. In fact, it becomes pretty close to how it was presented.

BTW, IMO not mentioning the name of the pianist doesn't make it not an advertisement.

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#1899434 - 05/18/12 06:28 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Tell me who your artist is and I'll tell you if he can come play my piano.
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#1899446 - 05/18/12 06:53 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
BruceD Online   content
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17847
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Superchibisan
[...]Locate people who own high end pianos and somehow convince them to pay my artist to play on their pianos for a private party.
[...]

Anyone have any ideas?


Yes, I have an idea : You are going to have a very hard time to "somehow convince [people]"
- to allow a stranger into their homes to play their pianos,
- to pay the unknown (to them) "artist" for this service and
- to provide the private party for you and your friend(s).

"Somehow," indeed! I think a reality check is needed.

Regards,
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#1899448 - 05/18/12 06:59 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Yes, I have an idea : You are going to have a very hard time to "somehow convince [people]"
- to allow a stranger into their homes to play their pianos,
- to pay the unknown (to them) "artist" for this service and
- to provide the private party for you and your friend(s).

"Somehow," indeed! I think a reality check is needed.

Some modest proposals:

-- Tell them who it is, and depending on who it is -- like if it's Horowitz or Rubinstein, or perhaps someone just entertaining like de Pachmann -- they'll probably agree. Some people might have a lower bar (including that it doesn't have to be someone dead) grin but probably not much and not many.

-- If it's not someone like that, pay them to pay you, and then they might do it. smile

That's about all I can think of.

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#1899458 - 05/18/12 07:15 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: BruceD]
Superchibisan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 7
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: Superchibisan
[...]Locate people who own high end pianos and somehow convince them to pay my artist to play on their pianos for a private party.
[...]

Anyone have any ideas?


Yes, I have an idea : You are going to have a very hard time to "somehow convince [people]"
- to allow a stranger into their homes to play their pianos,
- to pay the unknown (to them) "artist" for this service and
- to provide the private party for you and your friend(s).

"Somehow," indeed! I think a reality check is needed.

Regards,


We've already booked several of these types of events, we are looking to do it on a larger scale. It helps that we are great people smile

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#1899459 - 05/18/12 07:17 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
Then you already know how to do it!

I thought you said you were trying to find out how....

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#1899460 - 05/18/12 07:17 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Superchibisan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 7
Yes, booking shows is something we do quite often. smile Finding the contacts is another story.

Will the moderators please lock or delete this thread.


Edited by Superchibisan (05/18/12 07:31 PM)

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#1899463 - 05/18/12 07:22 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
PianogrlNW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/22/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: Superchibisan

We've already booked several of these types of events, we are looking to do it on a larger scale. It helps that we are great people smile


Hmm, if you (your pianist) is so great, bring it on and tell us who it is, then we'll be the judge. smile
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#1899472 - 05/18/12 07:35 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Ralph Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 1298
Loc: Delaware (slower/lower)
This is a very strange thread.
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#1899477 - 05/18/12 07:47 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
JDLR.
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#1899478 - 05/18/12 07:49 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: rocket88]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: rocket88
JDLR.

YCSTA! grin

(I had to look up your abbrev, and I just made up mine.) ha

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#1899480 - 05/18/12 07:52 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Yours is a real one, Mark...google it. You are just real tuned in. thumb
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#1899487 - 05/18/12 08:07 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: rocket88]
PianogrlNW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/22/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Seattle, WA
Busted.
Vincent Bierbach

Music Professional

Greater Denver Area
Music

Current

Audio Engineer at Threshold Audio and Lighting

Past

Business Services Technical Support at Comcast
Sales Associate at Guitar Center
Assistant Manager at Abo's New York Pizza
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#1899496 - 05/18/12 08:32 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Superchibisan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 7
This was a mistake.

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#1899501 - 05/18/12 08:43 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Superchibisan
This was a mistake.

If that's an admission, it's admirable. smile

BTW, chances are I'd like the pizza. grin
(Interesting research, Pianogrl.)

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#1899508 - 05/18/12 08:52 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6080
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Superchibisan
This was a mistake.


YIW
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It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1899513 - 05/18/12 08:55 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Damon]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Damon
YIW

Top google match for that: "Young Israel of Woodmere."

Somehow I think that's not what you meant. Or at least I hope it isn't. ha

BTW some of my kidhood friends were from Woodmere....


P.S. yes it was grin

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#1899523 - 05/18/12 09:16 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
newport Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 492
Why so harsh? You never need help?


Edited by newport (05/18/12 09:18 PM)
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#1899532 - 05/18/12 09:31 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: newport]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
For the reasons we gave, IMO especially the apparent sleazy approach.

And in fact, I think it probably would have been OK if it had been presented more straightforwardly for what it was, or certainly if it were from an active member who was asking for ideas about such a thing rather than someone who came on here newly just for it.

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#1899537 - 05/18/12 09:36 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Monica K. Online   blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17747
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Getting back to the O.P.'s question, I have seen the "private party" model work well in the new age/contemporary music sphere. Musician/composers with a strong internet presence will solicit home concerts from their fans. David Nevue, for example, will issue email newsletters to his customers/fans, and say something like "I'll be in the southwest the month of May, so anybody wanting to host a home concert please contact me."

It seems to work well for him. So the advice I would give you is for your client to develop a website or Facebook page or the like and solicit the home concerts that way.
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#1899549 - 05/18/12 09:52 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158

Yes...Home concerts are a big thing now...a sidestep from having to deal with venues, promoters, agents, etc.
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#1899595 - 05/18/12 10:49 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Ralph Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 1298
Loc: Delaware (slower/lower)
.....and Carnigie Hall is such a hassle anymore, esp with parking and all.
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#1899624 - 05/18/12 11:47 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Ralph]
RealPlayer Online   content
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Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 2316
Loc: NYC
I actually like the idea of touring the pianos of working artists. I have had thoughts of organizing something like this in New York City, though not to feature the talents of any one artist...just for the edification of other pianists. Because I think pianists are generally interested in what other pianists like about their instruments.

It would be a pretty exclusive tour...not a mass market event. But for those of us in our niche, very interesting.

On the whole though, a rather different concept from what the OP is proposing...
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www.josephkubera.com

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#1899705 - 05/19/12 11:42 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: PianogrlNW]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Since the question asked was a general one(without giving the pianist's name), I don't think any rules were broken or commercial enterprises promoted. It's no different from when someone asks "What is the best way to sell my piano(as long as details about the particular piano are not given)?" or a tech asks "What is the best way to get new customers". I find most of the criticism of the OP by a few posters to be rather mean spirited and inappropriate.

The only thing the OP should do that he hasn't done so far is include his professional music affiliations in his signature.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/19/12 11:44 AM)

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#1899714 - 05/19/12 11:49 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: BruceD]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: Superchibisan
[...]Locate people who own high end pianos and somehow convince them to pay my artist to play on their pianos for a private party.
[...]

Anyone have any ideas?


Yes, I have an idea : You are going to have a very hard time to "somehow convince [people]"
- to allow a stranger into their homes to play their pianos,
- to pay the unknown (to them) "artist" for this service and
- to provide the private party for you and your friend(s).

"Somehow," indeed! I think a reality check is needed.

Regards,
I'm sure the manager would give the pianist's name and would discuss the pianists credentials/experience with anyone who might want to host a home recital. So it seems to me that the recitalist would not be a stranger.

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#1899719 - 05/19/12 11:56 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
I agree that some of the responses were inappropriate, in particular the triumphant disclosure of the poster's identity!!! I happen to agree that he presented himself poorly to say the least, but I don't think it warranted having someone track the poster and identify him!
Perhaps PianogirlNW could explain why she felt the need to breach the poster's privacy and how she did it. It would seem that he had not included any hints in his profile and perhaps she resorted to "clever" means of "busting" him. IMHO PW should not condone this approach. But again, perhaps I am missing something here.

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#1899731 - 05/19/12 12:14 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Andromaque]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6080
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
I agree that some of the responses were inappropriate, in particular the triumphant disclosure of the poster's identity!!! I happen to agree that he presented himself poorly to say the least, but I don't think it warranted having someone track the poster and identify him!
Perhaps PianogirlNW could explain why she felt the need to breach the poster's privacy and how she did it. It would seem that he had not included any hints in his profile and perhaps she resorted to "clever" means of "busting" him. IMHO PW should not condone this approach. But again, perhaps I am missing something here.


A simple google search on his username returns those results. Of course, there is the possibility that there are several (chibi-whatever)s. PW does condone it with a google search box right on this very site (in your upper left hand corner)
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#1899738 - 05/19/12 12:26 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
I (?naively) assumed that he would have put that information up if he wanted to. Plus Pianogirl sounded so triumphant, I assumed that she must have tracked his IP address then his likedin profile.
By "condoning" I did not mean the specific technical means, as I suspect you know, bur rather the involuntary disclosure of personal info, regardless of the complexity of the means used to obtain it.

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#1899739 - 05/19/12 12:28 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Andromaque]
PianogrlNW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/22/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Perhaps PianogirlNW could explain why she felt the need to breach the poster's privacy and how she did it. It would seem that he had not included any hints in his profile and perhaps she resorted to "clever" means of "busting" him. IMHO PW should not condone this approach. But again, perhaps I am missing something here.


When OP first proposed his tour of private homes I and others felt the tone of the post was not genuine. When others asked for clarification he didn't provide any. When I googled his PF name, I found a number of social media websites that linked his name to his identity. When anyone opens a Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and blogs on the internet, the information posted on it is public. The info I posted was from his LinkedIn account. Some of his other websites/blogs showed no signs of interest, personal or professional, in the piano.

So was that not a good thing to reveal his identity? Maybe it wasn't. I do remember earlier when people were annoyed with BachRach (?) posting terrible recordings, that his identity was revealed and discussed.
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#1899741 - 05/19/12 12:30 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Andromaque]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
I (?naively) assumed that he would have put that information up if he wanted to. Plus Pianogirl sounded so triumphant, I assumed that she must have tracked his IP address then his likedin profile.
By "condoning" I did not mean the specific technical means, as I suspect you know, bur rather the involuntary disclosure of personal info, regardless of the complexity of the means used to obtain it.
Exactly. I would consider Pianogirl's actions far more egregious than the OP's. IF the moderators think the OP's post or the this thread should be closed, they will do so and communicate with the OP.

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#1899756 - 05/19/12 12:57 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Andromaque]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
I think you have indeed missed a little something.

Besides that the basic thing he was doing was arguably borderline inappropriate (we could argue that either way), he presented the situation misleadingly and manipulatively, and so I'd say he was asking big-time for whatever he got. As Pianogrl said, his approach wasn't genuine -- which I think is an understatement; it was entirely ungenuine, and I'd say sleazy.

I wouldn't have gone and found and posted his identity either, but I can't believe you're finding it in you to criticize the person who did that and being so relatively gentle on the OP.

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#1899762 - 05/19/12 01:03 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Andromaque]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6080
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
I (?naively) assumed that he would have put that information up if he wanted to. Plus Pianogirl sounded so triumphant, I assumed that she must have tracked his IP address then his likedin profile.
By "condoning" I did not mean the specific technical means, as I suspect you know, bur rather the involuntary disclosure of personal info, regardless of the complexity of the means used to obtain it.


I think it is naive, and no offense to you or Pianoloverus who replied below (I think it is a general disinterest in the inner workings of computers). He Superchibi chose to apply the same username on several accounts of which some record is public. What pianogrl did was possibly the most rudimentary of inquiries that could be made. It is probably mostly Superchibi who is naive if he cared about his anonymity.
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It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1899766 - 05/19/12 01:06 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Besides that the basic thing he was doing was arguably borderline inappropriate (we could argue that either way), he presented the situation misleadingly and manipulatively, and so I'd say he was asking big-time for whatever he got. As Pianogrl said, his approach wasn't genuine -- which I think is an understatement; it was entirely ungenuine, and I'd say sleazy.
I couldn't disagree more. The only think the OP should have done was include his professional affiliation in his signature. If the thread was not appropriate, the mods would probably have closed it a while ago.

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#1899814 - 05/19/12 02:36 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Damon]
Andromaque Offline
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Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
I (?naively) assumed that he would have put that information up if he wanted to. Plus Pianogirl sounded so triumphant, I assumed that she must have tracked his IP address then his likedin profile.
By "condoning" I did not mean the specific technical means, as I suspect you know, bur rather the involuntary disclosure of personal info, regardless of the complexity of the means used to obtain it.


I think it is naive, and no offense to you or Pianoloverus who replied below (I think it is a general disinterest in the inner workings of computers). He Superchibi chose to apply the same username on several accounts of which some record is public. What pianogrl did was possibly the most rudimentary of inquiries that could be made. It is probably mostly Superchibi who is naive if he cared about his anonymity.


None taken. But it is rather smug of you to assume that we "don't get it" or that we are technologically-speaking naive. What I objected to is the "busted!!!"-decorated revelation of his identity, as sanction for his perceived manipulation of the esteemed forum. Granted said revelation happened to be a rudimentary google search away, since the OP used the smae username (allegedly) on sites that easily identify him. Perhaps he does not even care about his identity being included in the thread.
What I am objecting to is the approach. We all know that our identities are not secure, even if we take the trouble of using differnt usernames or even avoiding social and professional media. Let alone if we publish our identities along with an easily identifiable username. I still find it unsavory to get back at people (because that is what this is) by "busting" them.

Perhaps the manner in which I posed the question led you to believe that I thought Pianogirl was a professional hacker. In which case I forgive your inoffensive accusation.

Bottom line: it is poor decorum, regardless of who the poster is (and I certainly was not on the verge of offering my piano for a private party), and how easily they vould be revealed.

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#1899825 - 05/19/12 03:04 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Andromaque]
Damon Online   happy
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Originally Posted By: Andromaque

None taken. But it is rather smug of you


We weren't being smug but are sometimes of the belief that the opposite is true, that some folks don't learn certain new things on purpose. We'll grant that the revelation was maybe somewhat unsavory, but we think the OP deserved it.

Click to reveal..
My first person plural is just there to annoy Mark, not you. grin
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#1899827 - 05/19/12 03:07 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
newport Offline
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Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 492
If anything, there is an 'otherworldly' quality to the OP's original post that I feel empathy for. Many members here only come here to play. The OP came here aksing for help which sounded genuine to me. I feel we should give the OP the benefit of doubt.


Edited by newport (05/19/12 03:15 PM)
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#1899884 - 05/19/12 05:13 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: stores]
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5289
Loc: McAllen, TX
Originally Posted By: stores
Tell me who your artist is and I'll tell you if he can come play my piano.


I, too, would like to know this.
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#1899885 - 05/19/12 05:14 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Damon]
Mark_C Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Damon
We...We...we

Thanks for giving us the plural of "meme." grin

Quote:
Click to reveal..
My first person plural is just there to annoy Mark, not you. grin

And don't think I hadn't noticed that! ha

Originally Posted By: newport
If anything, there is an 'otherworldly' quality to the OP's original post that I feel empathy for. Many members here only come here to play. The OP came here aksing for help which sounded genuine to me. I feel we should give the OP the benefit of doubt.

You're ignoring how he presented it.

He masqueraded the title, the post, and himself for other than what this was.

The whole thing was full of crapola -- a fake representation of what this was. If you didn't notice it or don't care about it, it doesn't mean it wasn't there.

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#1899909 - 05/19/12 06:01 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
pianoanne Offline
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Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Pacific NW
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Damon
We...We...we

Thanks for giving us the plural of "meme." grin

Quote:
Click to reveal..
My first person plural is just there to annoy Mark, not you. grin

And don't think I hadn't noticed that! ha

Originally Posted By: newport
If anything, there is an 'otherworldly' quality to the OP's original post that I feel empathy for. Many members here only come here to play. The OP came here aksing for help which sounded genuine to me. I feel we should give the OP the benefit of doubt.

You're ignoring how he presented it.

He masqueraded the title, the post, and himself for other than what this was.

The whole thing was full of crapola -- a fake representation of what this was. If you didn't notice it or don't care about it, it doesn't mean it wasn't there.


I am late reading into this thread. My first thought is why did you people even respond in the first place if you thought the OP had malicious intentions? I personally don't see much wrong with his question. He could have been more clear in the beginning of what he was asking, but I don't think he was trying to solicit business from this website.
After seeing things like this, when new people come to this website and think of joining, some of them may have second thoughts when they see just how petty some of the members can be. And even worse, they may fear their identities will be outed.
You know not everyone is computer savy, even now. Maybe he had no idea that his ID could be traced through his screenname on here. I feel that was a major invasion of privacy and I think it's even more disturbing the way you people condone that kind of behavior but attack someone who asks a question. Obviously some people here have their little cliques and will basically do anything to support there "friends" on here. And where are the moderators? From what I read the OP had asked this thread to be closed early on (before his ID had been given), this should not have happened.

I am actually fed up here and I won't be participating on this website any more.


Edited by pianoanne (05/19/12 06:03 PM)

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#1899912 - 05/19/12 06:04 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoanne]
Mark_C Online   content
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If you look at who he is and what he does, including on the internet (all of which you can see with very little effort, inside of half a minute), I think you'll realize it's essentially impossible that he was naive or unaware in the way that you said -- which would seem to negate your point. That said, I hope you won't really leave. It wouldn't be for a good reason.

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#1900035 - 05/19/12 11:23 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
wr Offline
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Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7767
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Besides that the basic thing he was doing was arguably borderline inappropriate (we could argue that either way), he presented the situation misleadingly and manipulatively, and so I'd say he was asking big-time for whatever he got. As Pianogrl said, his approach wasn't genuine -- which I think is an understatement; it was entirely ungenuine, and I'd say sleazy.
I couldn't disagree more. The only think the OP should have done was include his professional affiliation in his signature. If the thread was not appropriate, the mods would probably have closed it a while ago.


As Kreisler has explained more than once, the chances of a thread getting closed depends greatly on whether anyone complains about it, regardless of the content.

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#1900072 - 05/20/12 01:47 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
ando Online   content
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I feel like I've stepped into the Twilight Zone.

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#1902423 - 05/24/12 02:54 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: ando]
Old Man Offline
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Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Late to the party, as usual, but I'm happy with a few crumbs.

This thread seems to be a study in overreactions. Initially the OP laid all his cards on the table: My artist wants to play privately-owned, high-quality pianos for money. How might I go about discovering who and where these owners are? I didn't sense in any of his posts that he was hawking his wares. He seemed to be simply asking "how should I begin?".

I guess one could infer that he was really asking "Anyone on this forum interested?", but he didn't say that. (Although stores' "Show me the goods" may have raised his hopes for a microsecond grin ). But even if we assume this guy really was a snake, I'm sure he would have revealed himself in due course. Instead, after introducing his topic, he was promptly greeted with a bat across the knee caps, effectively shutting down both the topic and the OP.

On the other hand, I would also say that anyone with a smidgen of tech savvy knows that any presumption of internet anonymity is a fantasy. The fact that the poster has Facebook and LinkedIn accounts, and claims to be an audio engineer, would suggest that he's anything but a Luddite. And given that he fancies himself a kind of manager/agent/promoter, he would probably welcome as much visibility as possible. So Pianogrl was in no way "invading his privacy" by googling his name, because no privacy ever existed. His cyber-trail is available to anyone, and I'm sure he's well aware of that.

What seemed to end his presence on the thread was Pianogrl's use of the word "busted", which usually implies wrongdoing on the part of the "bustee". Within minutes the OP says, "This was a mistake", and hasn't been heard from since. He seemed to sense the hostility, which was palpable at that point, and realized the futility of continuing.

Personally, I wish the thread had been allowed to evolve. I had never heard of the concept being proposed by the OP, and found it somewhat intriguing. Given that it's impossible to ascribe motives to people who are physically in our presence, I think it's even more foolish to try doing it in such a woefully inadequate medium as this. We're all adults, so I'm sure we can probably figure out at what point the evidence of ulterior motives becomes incontrovertible. But I think we were a long way from that point, and that the OP should have been given the benefit of the doubt, unless and until he proved otherwise. He didn't really have a chance to prove anything, one way or the other.

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#1902429 - 05/24/12 03:05 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Old Man
So Pianogrl was in no way "invading his privacy" by googling his name, because no privacy ever existed.
I think it's one thing to google someone's name but a different thing to start posting information about someone (no matter how easy or difficult the information was to find).

I do agree with the part of your post that said the OP was treated in a nasty way by a few people who continued complaining even when the OP explained (in his second post) the situation in complete detail. One poster even continued alluding to the "problem" on another thread.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/24/12 03:11 PM)

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#1902455 - 05/24/12 03:56 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
BruceD Online   content
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Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
[...]
I do agree with the part of your post that said the OP was treated in a nasty way by a few people who continued complaining even when the OP explained (in his second post) the situation in complete detail. One poster even continued alluding to the "problem" on another thread.


I don't see the "complete detail" that you have apparently read.


The reason I posted as I did for my first post on this thread was after reading and trying to digest all the implications of the following :

Originally Posted By: Superchibisan
I would like to book a tour of the best private piano [sic!] in the United States.
Does anyone know where to start? [...] Locate people who own high end pianos and somehow convince them to pay my artist to play on their pianos for a private party.(1899359)

Well my artist has a thing for pianos and private parties seem to be the best venues. We are setting up a tour and it would be great to be able to play some real pianos instead of digital. (1899378)

Getting paid is the goal, as well as playing some fine pianos. I am merely looking for the avenue to make the contacts necessary to make this tour happen. (1899408)

I want to book a tour. I would like to book private parties where there is an excellent piano onsite. (1899431)

We've already booked several of these types of events, we are looking to do it on a larger scale. It helps that we are great people (1899458)

Yes, booking shows is something we do quite often. (1899460)


What I was questioning - and what has not yet been made clear - is the nature of this “tour” the type of which the OP and other(s - “we”) have often done before.

1) These “tours” or “events” or “shows” as he has called them, are they arranged for groups of people with a common interest assembled by the OP - as in themed travel tours - or is the tour arranged only for the OP and his pianist?
2) The OP expects his artist to be paid. I read this to mean that the piano host will be paying the artist for his performance(s).
3) Private parties? Are the guests to the private party simply the OP and his pianist, do they include friends of the host, or are the guests the members of the “tour” (see 1) or all of these?
4) Whatever the answer to 3), I take it that the OP expects that not only his artist to be paid but also for the host to fund the “private party.”

This is why, perhaps in my naïveté, or lack of understanding of the details, I thought it somewhat presumptuous of the OP to be expecting to find someone who would
- host and pay his pianist to play a privately-owned piano in a private home
- host and fund a private party for the OP, his pianist and ... how many others?

While many owners of high-end pianos may own them only as pieces of furniture (alas!), I would think that most would be fairly fine pianists themselves and would also have sufficient musical connections to hear their piano played as often as they would like. Why would they jump at the chance to pay for a private party at which someone is to be paid to play their piano?

Would the shoe not fit better on the other foot? Shouldn't the OP and his artist be eager to pay to play high end pianos of people they don't know and who don't know them?

What have I missed in all of this?

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
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Estonia 190

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#1902467 - 05/24/12 04:24 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Varcon Offline
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Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 1931
Loc: Mount Vernon, Georgia 30445
Why would the OP not post an audio of this 'artist' to gain some interest in thos with 'high end' pianos to prove that it might be worth it. I thought his post rather awkward and ill-conceived but I don't see how it violated anything other than the sensibilities of the subsequent posters who have valid arguments, so I think.

It could have been more carefully thought out so that the poster would have been less offensive. Well, he knows the response here. I think the discovery and revelation of his name ok. Had he been more straight-forward he wouldn't have created these responses I think.

Ralph

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#1902469 - 05/24/12 04:28 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: BruceD]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
[...]
I do agree with the part of your post that said the OP was treated in a nasty way by a few people who continued complaining even when the OP explained (in his second post) the situation in complete detail. One poster even continued alluding to the "problem" on another thread.


I don't see the "complete detail" that you have apparently read.
My choice of words was poor. What I meant was that in his third post very near the beginning of the threadfirst post( he said"convince them to pay my artistt to play on their pianos for a private party") the OP confirmed he was the agent/manager for the pianist who was expecting to perform for money. Thus the complaining from some others about this should have endednever occurred..

To comment on the rest of your post, it is quite common for non classical performers to perform at private parties, and I have seen musicians' websites that advertize this service. It is probably less common for classical performers to do so but not unheard of.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/24/12 07:08 PM)

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#1902471 - 05/24/12 04:32 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Varcon]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Varcon
Why would the OP not post an audio of this 'artist' to gain some interest in those with 'high end' pianos to prove that it might be worth it.
I think if he had done that it would have been considered free advertizing which is against PW rules.

Similarly starting a thread asking about how to sell one's piano seems reasonable, but including great detail about that piano(make, year, condition, possible price, etc.)seems like advertising.

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#1902490 - 05/24/12 05:00 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: BruceD]
Old Man Offline
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Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: BruceD

The reason I posted as I did for my first post on this thread was after reading and trying to digest all the implications of the following :

Originally Posted By: Superchibisan
I would like to book a tour of the best private piano [sic!] in the United States.
Does anyone know where to start? [...] Locate people who own high end pianos and somehow convince them to pay my artist to play on their pianos for a private party.(1899359)

Well my artist has a thing for pianos and private parties seem to be the best venues. We are setting up a tour and it would be great to be able to play some real pianos instead of digital. (1899378)

Getting paid is the goal, as well as playing some fine pianos. I am merely looking for the avenue to make the contacts necessary to make this tour happen. (1899408)

I want to book a tour. I would like to book private parties where there is an excellent piano onsite. (1899431)

We've already booked several of these types of events, we are looking to do it on a larger scale. It helps that we are great people (1899458)

Yes, booking shows is something we do quite often. (1899460)


What I was questioning - and what has not yet been made clear - is the nature of this “tour” the type of which the OP and other(s - “we”) have often done before.

1) These “tours” or “events” or “shows” as he has called them, are they arranged for groups of people with a common interest assembled by the OP - as in themed travel tours - or is the tour arranged only for the OP and his pianist?
2) The OP expects his artist to be paid. I read this to mean that the piano host will be paying the artist for his performance(s).
3) Private parties? Are the guests to the private party simply the OP and his pianist, do they include friends of the host, or are the guests the members of the “tour” (see 1) or all of these?
4) Whatever the answer to 3), I take it that the OP expects that not only his artist to be paid but also for the host to fund the “private party.”

This is why, perhaps in my naïveté, or lack of understanding of the details, I thought it somewhat presumptuous of the OP to be expecting to find someone who would
- host and pay his pianist to play a privately-owned piano in a private home
- host and fund a private party for the OP, his pianist and ... how many others?

While many owners of high-end pianos may own them only as pieces of furniture (alas!), I would think that most would be fairly fine pianists themselves and would also have sufficient musical connections to hear their piano played as often as they would like. Why would they jump at the chance to pay for a private party at which someone is to be paid to play their piano?

Would the shoe not fit better on the other foot? Shouldn't the OP and his artist be eager to pay to play high end pianos of people they don't know and who don't know them?

What have I missed in all of this?

Regards,

Bruce, you've made my point beautifully. You're not the only one "missing" something. We've all "missed" something because the OP never felt comfortable enough to begin addressing the many excellent questions you posed.

The concept outlined by the OP is so strange, maybe even bizarre, that reading the OP's proof of concept might have made for some fascinating, if not downright entertaining give-and-take. But since his integrity was impugned so early in the thread, he abandoned ship, so your questions will have to remain unanswered. It's not the end of the world, but I do wish these threads could be allowed to develop on their own for a while before the "serious police" come in and run the OP out of town on a rail.

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#1902501 - 05/24/12 05:18 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Old Man

The concept outlined by the OP is so strange, maybe even bizarre, that reading the OP's proof of concept might have made for some fascinating, if not downright entertaining give-and-take.
I think the only unusual thing about the OP's idea is the idea of a "tour". It's just an extension of the idea of a classical musician performing at a private function which is not so rare. Weddings have this fairly frequently(string quartets, etc.).

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#1902519 - 05/24/12 05:53 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
BruceD Online   content
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Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
[...] it is quite common for non classical performers to perform at private parties, and I have seen musicians' websites that advertize this service. It is probably less common for classical performers to do so but not unheard of.


Yes, that much I understand: musicians looking for "gigs," and publicly advertising their services to those who may seek them. Just about every professional advertises his services in some way, from the Yellow Pages to business cards, to newspaper ads to flyers in the hope/expectation that the client will come to him. Is there not some difference between those and an artist/agent seeking out the specific clients - only those with high-end pianos - with the expectation that they would arrange parties not for themselves but for the artist and that would coincide with the artist's (local? nation-wide?) travel "tour" and ... (everything else I said above)?

No need for anyone to answer - unless s/he feels compelled to do so. I'll just resolve not to understand the full sense of the original request and go on to other things.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
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Estonia 190

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#1902526 - 05/24/12 06:01 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Old Man Offline
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Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I think the only unusual thing about the OP's idea is the idea of a "tour". It's just an extension of the idea of a classical musician performing at a private function which is not so rare. Weddings have this fairly frequently(string quartets, etc.).

Agreed. But what I found strange, in addition to the tour aspect, was the requirement for a "high end" piano. The OP says his artist "has a thing" for pianos, that he's seeking the "best private" pianos, etc. I would think that if his interest were purely pecuniary, he might settle for a piano that's "in tune" and has 88 keys. But he seems to be looking for pianos that are of extremely high quality, so he can build a network of potential venues for his tour (not to mention his encore tours).

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#1902536 - 05/24/12 06:18 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
pianoloverus Online   content
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I agree with Old Man and Bruce about the "high end" part also being unusual.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/24/12 06:46 PM)

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#1902537 - 05/24/12 06:19 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
Mark_C Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Old Man
....Initially the OP laid all his cards on the table: My artist wants to play privately-owned, high-quality pianos for money. How might I go about discovering who and where these owners are? I didn't sense in any of his posts that he was hawking his wares. He seemed to be simply asking "how should I begin?".

With all due respect, you're wrong. smile

He deliberately misrepresented the emphasis (it has little to do with trying high-quality pianos; it's about getting paid by the people who have those kinds of pianos) and deliberately misrepresented his degree of knowledge and expertise on what he was asking about. He knew how "to begin"; as he later conceded, he's the guy's agent, and he's been doing it.

Quote:
I guess one could infer that he was really asking "Anyone on this forum interested?", but he didn't say that.

I think it's very likely that's what he was looking for. You seem to be taking the view merely that it's not certain that he was, and you're right. But that's not how we normally judge things, is it? I don't know about you, but unless it's a court of law or something like that, I go on what seems likely.

The only problem I had with any of what he was doing was the misrepresentations, which were substantial.

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#1902548 - 05/24/12 06:41 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Old Man
....Initially the OP laid all his cards on the table: My artist wants to play privately-owned, high-quality pianos for money. How might I go about discovering who and where these owners are? I didn't sense in any of his posts that he was hawking his wares. He seemed to be simply asking "how should I begin?".

With all due respect, you're wrong. smile
There you go again, stating your opinion as if it was factual.

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
He deliberately misrepresented the emphasis (it has little to do with trying high-quality pianos; it's about getting paid by the people who have those kinds of pianos) and deliberately misrepresented his degree of knowledge and expertise on what he was asking about. He knew how "to begin"; as he later conceded, he's the guy's agent, and he's been doing it.{/quote]How could you possibly know what his empahsis was? As far as misrepresenting his expertise, he stated only he had booked a several gigs thus far. Hardly indicative of an expert needing no help and really just advertising.

Quote:
I guess one could infer that he was really asking "Anyone on this forum interested?", but he didn't say that.
I think it's very like that's what he was looking for. You seem to be taking the view merely that it's not certain that he was, and you're right. But that's not how we normally judge things, is it? I don't know about you, but unless it's a court of law or something like that, I go on what seems likely.
I certainly didn't think that Old Man was "taking the view merely that it's not certain that he was". "What seems likely" is only what you think is likely. Clearly, other posters didn't agree.

Originally Posted By: Mark C
The only problem I had with any of it was the BS misrepresentations -- which they were indeed.
In the very first post the thread, the OP clearly indicated both that he was the pianist's agent and the pianist wanted to be paid. He said "convince them to pay my artist to play on their pianos for a private party".

But that wasn't enough for you. You continued sarcastically criticizing and ridiculing him. He finally said his thread was "a bad idea" which was probably his reaction to your bullying and not an apology. Your reply to this comment was the condescending "If that's an admission, it's admirable."

When I first read this thread I thought the OP hadn't made things clear about him being the agent and the pianist getting paid until his third post. Rereading the thread I see he made this clear in his opening post. I find most of the criticism totally unfair.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/24/12 07:20 PM)

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#1902583 - 05/24/12 07:51 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
Old Man Offline
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Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

With all due respect, you're wrong. smile

With all due respect?! Please, I'm not that freakin' old! smile

Seriously, Mark, I take your point, and you are probably right about his true intentions, but I don't think he misrepresented anything. His opening post said this:

Originally Posted By: Superchibisan

I have a rough idea: Locate people who own high end pianos and somehow convince them to pay my artist to play on their pianos for a private party.

So my point was, why not take his words at face value, and let him reveal himself? I have no problem with people ridiculing his ideas, or peppering him with questions as BruceD did. He's fair game, and it would have been interesting to read his responses.

If his question "Anyone have any ideas?" was truly sincere, he'd respond to any and all queries. But if his motives were suspect, as you suggest, he'd conclude that this was not fertile ground for advancing his business pursuits, and would've taken his marbles and gone home.

What I so admired about the late Tim Russert's journalistic style was that he never went on the attack with his guests. He would simply read a quote, or play a video of a speech his interviewee had given, and then ask, with that sweet, baby-faced smile, "Now, what in the world made you say that?"

I think a little more of that attitude would enhance these threads considerably. Simply let people have their say, and all (or at least, enough) will be revealed in good time.

BTW, Mark, I enjoy your posts. You always seem willing to be helpful and informative, and you take on your critics with warmth and humor. I say this in spite of any opinions to the contrary from stores or pianoloverus. grin

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#1902605 - 05/24/12 09:01 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
Mark_C Online   content
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OldMan: I appreciate that even in such disagreement, your tone is so gracious and friendly. We do disagree on how we see what the OP was doing, and so we have quite different views on what kinds of replies to him were appropriate. Regarding that more would have been revealed if there had been the chance, I think it was already well enough revealed. I know that you don't necessarily agree -- although I see that you do agree I was "probably" right about his intent. Since you agree with that, I find it quite surprising that you'd be so critical of the tack that I took, because that means you agree that probably his approach was intentionally misleading. But heck, none of us can expect to ever stop being surprised. smile

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#1902772 - 05/25/12 07:11 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
wr Offline
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Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7767
Originally Posted By: Old Man

Bruce, you've made my point beautifully. You're not the only one "missing" something. We've all "missed" something because the OP never felt comfortable enough to begin addressing the many excellent questions you posed.

The concept outlined by the OP is so strange, maybe even bizarre, that reading the OP's proof of concept might have made for some fascinating, if not downright entertaining give-and-take. But since his integrity was impugned so early in the thread, he abandoned ship, so your questions will have to remain unanswered. It's not the end of the world, but I do wish these threads could be allowed to develop on their own for a while before the "serious police" come in and run the OP out of town on a rail.


The thread DID develop on its own, to my way of thinking. And the OP was hardly "run out of town" - in fact, he is still totally free to post, as far as I know. That he left was his own choice alone.

He had already asked for the thread to be deleted or locked before he was even identified (but he was so unfamiliar with the forum that he didn't even know how to make that happen, nor, it seems, did he pursue it very far, since it remains unlocked).

Maybe he got an inkling of how utterly whacked out his idea was - that's my hypothesis. At any rate, his last visit here was on the same day that he registered, which to my mind, tells us a lot about his interest in being a participant in this forum.

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#1902791 - 05/25/12 07:40 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: wr]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: wr

The thread DID develop on its own, to my way of thinking. And the OP was hardly "run out of town" - in fact, he is still totally free to post, as far as I know. That he left was his own choice alone.
Several posters were rude to him was the reason he left.


Originally Posted By: wr
Maybe he got an inkling of how utterly whacked out his idea was - that's my hypothesis. At any rate, his last visit here was on the same day that he registered, which to my mind, tells us a lot about his interest in being a participant in this forum.
I have yet to see any posts that explain why his idea was "whacked out". It is certainly not unheard of for classical performers to play at private parties or events. In fact, there is a recent thread at PW where a request for pianists to do this is the topic. The only parts of his idea that are a little different from this are his wish to set up a tour and desire to play only on high tier pianos.

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#1902803 - 05/25/12 08:10 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Damon Online   happy
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Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6080
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

Originally Posted By: wr
Maybe he got an inkling of how utterly whacked out his idea was - that's my hypothesis. At any rate, his last visit here was on the same day that he registered, which to my mind, tells us a lot about his interest in being a participant in this forum.
I have yet to see any posts that explain why his idea was "whacked out". It is certainly not unheard of for classical performers to play at private parties or events. In fact, there is a recent thread at PW where a request for pianists to do this is the topic. The only parts of his idea that are a little different from this are his wish to set up a tour and desire to play only on high tier pianos.


I thought it was worded a little funny but I read it like this:

"How do I populate a list of rich people with very nice pianos and talk them into paying my pianist to perform at their next party? Here's a forum filled with pianists (presumably), perhaps they know some of these people. Maybe they have nice pianos themselves that are unfulfilled."

I don't think the high end piano part was as strange as you seem to think, I just thought it was his way of saying he didn't want his artist to encounter an unplayable piece of junk. It didn't seem to me like English was his first language.
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#1902816 - 05/25/12 08:55 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Andromaque Offline
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Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
For the sake of discussion, I know a guy who lives in the burbs north of New York city whose main hobby is collecting old European (ie Bosies, Faz, Bechstein and Hamburg) pianos and rebuilding them, often in Eastern Europe for much less money than it would cost here. The first floor of his house is akin to a showroom. And he does have piano parties whereby he invites pianists to play differnt pieces on different instruments. The ones I know of personally were grad students from J or some such neighborhood conservatories. Now I do not know if he pays them something but I would not be surprised if he did. Otherwise what is their incentive.

Having said that I am not supporting superchibisan (I love this name)'s approach etc.. Though I do not know that we needed to mount a wall of hostililty right off the bat. Who did he stand to harm?? Someone with a fabulous piano could have fallen for it? it would have made for an even juicier thread.


P.S. "unfulfilled pianos". Like that term too..

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#1902834 - 05/25/12 09:25 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Andromaque]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Though I do not know that we needed to mount a wall of hostililty right off the bat. Who did he stand to harm?? Someone with a fabulous piano could have fallen for it?
Fallen for what?

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#1902838 - 05/25/12 09:31 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Andromaque]
Old Man Offline
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Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Andromaque

Though I do not know that we needed to mount a wall of hostililty right off the bat. Who did he stand to harm?? Someone with a fabulous piano could have fallen for it? it would have made for an even juicier thread.

You are exactly right. Everyone here is entitled to be suspicious about his motives and to express those concerns. And as I said to Mark C, he probably DID view this forum as a gateway to finding these high-end piano owners. But as you said, "Who did he stand to harm?" And since he had not yet explicitly said he was soliciting our business (which would have violated the forum's rules), it would have been much more interesting to simply let him expound on his grand tour idea. As you said, keeping him in the game would have made for a much "juicier thread."

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#1902842 - 05/25/12 09:37 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
what's with all the newbies playing piano police? honestly.. it makes PW look bad.. like some clique-y icky site.

Strategically run ads at the time of year when people have parties.. (Christmas for instance), put up signs, sign up with party and wedding planners.

best of luck.
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#1902844 - 05/25/12 09:39 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Though I do not know that we needed to mount a wall of hostililty right off the bat. Who did he stand to harm?? Someone with a fabulous piano could have fallen for it?
Fallen for what?


"it".. whatever it might be that got people worked up. smile

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#1902851 - 05/25/12 09:51 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Old Man
But as you said, "Who did he stand to harm?"
I think it's more like "What harm could he have possibly done?"

With no specific details I don't see how the post would qualify as an ad and clearly the moderators feel the same. No one really knows the OP's intention but if it was to solicit business, who cares? Some posters approach the OP's post with a reaction similar to a parent be lied to by their child or IMO an incredible degree of self righteousness.

I see no difference between the opening post, even if it's intention was to book recitals, and the numerous threads where people ask how best to sell their piano(assuming the post doesn't include lots of details about the piano). There have been tens of thousands of posts where the poster's self interest was far more evident than in the first post in this thread.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/25/12 09:57 AM)

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#1902852 - 05/25/12 09:53 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: PianogrlNW]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: PianogrlNW
Since you just joined PF today, you might want to look at the FAQs and general rules of conduct. This forum is not for promoting commercial enterprise (unless I'm mistaken). shocked


what's with the relatively new people playing PW police..? it seems very unwelcoming. I see no problem with the original question.

You might contact booking agents, party and wedding planners, running ads in small publications. I think wedding and event planners would be the best place to start.

Back when I was a kid (18) i ran an ad in an area of the Kansas City magazine for new businesses with a picture that said... "Piano playing - absolutely free! grands preferred." It was so cute and they printed it for free. I booked 14 parties and everyone paid me.. about 100 dollars.. I was in heaven. When i think that I was playing Chopin backwards (in a way) and had such a limited repertoire, I writhe in shame.
Best of luck to you. I am kind of embarrassed for this forum and sorry you had such a negative response to your question.
_________________________
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#1902854 - 05/25/12 09:59 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
He was looking for "work" for his starving artist pianist, with home parties.. smile
all he had to say was PM me if interested.. no harm no foul..

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#1902897 - 05/25/12 11:13 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Mark_C Online   content
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Plover: No, what was different was getting paid.

Originally Posted By: Damon
....I read it like this:

"How do I populate a list of rich people with very nice pianos and talk them into paying my pianist to perform at their next party?...."
I don't think the high end piano part was as strange as you seem to think, I just thought it was his way of saying he didn't want his artist to encounter an unplayable piece of junk....

IMO it was a handle for getting "rich people" without coming out and saying "I'm looking for rich people." grin

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#1902906 - 05/25/12 11:19 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Andromaque]
BDB Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Andromaque
For the sake of discussion, I know a guy who lives in the burbs north of New York city whose main hobby is collecting old European (ie Bosies, Faz, ...


Old Faziolis?
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#1902913 - 05/25/12 11:33 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Plover: No, what was different was getting paid.
Unless you think no pianist has ever gotten paid for a private performance this is not true.

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Damon
....I read it like this:

"How do I populate a list of rich people with very nice pianos and talk them into paying my pianist to perform at their next party?...."
I don't think the high end piano part was as strange as you seem to think, I just thought it was his way of saying he didn't want his artist to encounter an unplayable piece of junk....

IMO it was a handle for getting "rich people" without coming out and saying "I'm looking for rich people." grin
Who cares whether the people are rich or not? It's their money and they can do with it what they like. You are, as I have said earlier, just guessing about any motivation the OP had in his phrasing. And as I just pointed out, no matter what the idea of the post was, there are tens of thousands of posts at PW motivated by self interest.

I'm glad to see that the posters that see nothing wrong with the OP(and something wrong with those who were nasty to him) are in the majority at this point.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/25/12 11:39 AM)

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#1902919 - 05/25/12 11:44 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Mark_C Online   content
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Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Plover: No, what was different was getting paid.
Unless you think no pianist has ever gotten paid for a private performance this is not true.

As much as I hate to say this ha you're wrong.
Look at what I was replying to:
your post that said....

Quote:
...there is a recent thread at PW where a request for pianists to do this is the topic. The only parts of his idea that are a little different from this are his wish to set up a tour and desire to play only on high tier pianos.


--------

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
...there are tens of thousands of posts at PW motivated by self interest.

That's fine -- as long as they're not presented in a misleading BS way. This was. I know you don't agree with that -- and that's probably why we won't agree on the rest of how we see it.

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#1902924 - 05/25/12 11:51 AM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
kb fanatic Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 19
Loc: Louisiana
This sounds like a bizarre scam to me. Why would anyone with a "high end" piano want to rent it out to a stranger for a party in one's own home.

This is beyond creepy. Superchibisan: If you seriously need to rent a piano for your artist for a party, GO TO A DEALERSHIP and rent one! No one in their right mind is going to rent their home and high end piano to you so you can have a party. If you are just looking for wealthy homes to burglarize, it seems like there must be an easier way than this.

If you are a piano lover, then make friends with other pianists in your area.

Thanks for a good laugh.

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#1902938 - 05/25/12 12:15 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

IMO it was a handle for getting "rich people" without coming out and saying "I'm looking for rich people." grin

Mark, are you serious? If I say, "I'm looking for yacht owners with boats at least 40 feet in length", am I really required to "come out" and say I'm looking for rich people? If I own one of "the best private pianos", and can afford to throw a party which includes a highly-paid pianist, I'm pretty sure I'm not a greeter at Walmart. I may not need to be rich, but I think "highly affluent" is probably a minimum requirement.

(Then again, my idea of a party is bags of Cheetos and a keg, or (if it's super fancy) little smokies in BBQ sauce, so what do I know?) laugh

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#1902948 - 05/25/12 12:46 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
Mark_C Online   content
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OldMan: I really can't tell what you're raising there, what's your point. Honest.

Do you mean you think I was criticizing the fact that he was looking for rich people, or that he did it indirectly?

(I wasn't -- and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I criticized a lot else, but not that. The thing of mine that you quoted was just a comment/elaboration on the last part of what Damon said, that's all.)

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#1902953 - 05/25/12 12:59 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: kb fanatic]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: kb fanatic
This sounds like a bizarre scam to me. Why would anyone with a "high end" piano want to rent it out to a stranger for a party in one's own home.
Stranger? Do you think someone's going to hire a pianist to play at their house without talking to them first and finding out their credentials?? As has been pointed out, having a classical musician play at a private event for pay is far from unusual.

Originally Posted By: kb fanatic
This is beyond creepy. Superchibisan: If you seriously need to rent a piano for your artist for a party, GO TO A DEALERSHIP and rent one! No one in their right mind is going to rent their home and high end piano to you so you can have a party. If you are just looking for wealthy homes to burglarize, it seems like there must be an easier way than this.
The person having the party is not the pianist. If the performing pianist had to rent the piano for a private performance, it would leave him with little money after the performance.

Your last comment is so out line I have reported it to the moderators.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/25/12 01:02 PM)

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#1902959 - 05/25/12 01:08 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
Old Man Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Michigan, USA
Mark, you are correct. I did misunderstand you. I didn't catch your reference to Damon's quote, so I thought you were criticizing the OP (among other things) for not disclosing upfront that his intended "market" was the wealthy.

So, to quote Emily Litella, "Never mind". blush

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#1902962 - 05/25/12 01:14 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Old Man]
Mark_C Online   content
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Understandable -- I guess this has gotten to the point that everything I say looks like a criticism. ha

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#1902964 - 05/25/12 01:16 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Mark_C]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

That's fine -- as long as they're not presented in a misleading BS way. This was. I know you don't agree with that -- and that's probably why we won't agree on the rest of how we see it.
As I and several people have specifically pointed out to you the OP was completely upfront about being the manager andabout his artist getting paid. He said it in his very first post. What part of "pay my artist to play" don't you understand?

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#1902969 - 05/25/12 01:26 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: New York
Plover: Re-read my posts. smile
The answers are there.

And BTW saying stuff in colors and real big doesn't make it any better. ha

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#1902987 - 05/25/12 02:13 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5289
Loc: McAllen, TX
Alright, alright, move it along.
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#1902989 - 05/25/12 02:16 PM Re: Booking a tour of the best private pianos [Re: Superchibisan]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13764
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I think many people are being unnecessarily hostile and suspicious here.

Private house concerts are quite popular, and many artists play these kinds of concerts on a regular basis. (Whatever you think of her playing, Lola Astanova's career was launched by private concerts - a rather creative route that ended up being far more successful than beating her head against the wall on the competition circuit.)

The few private house concerts I've been involved in were fund-raisers. People get together, have some wine and hors d'oeuvres, listen to some music, and politely discuss various institutions they'd like to support. (The fund-raisers I've done were for a regional symphony and a public library.)

To answer the OP's question - the best way of getting an artist booked would be to contact the local Steinway dealer, most of whom keep in touch with those who have purchased pianos. Another way would be to offer the artist's services for free or a discounted fee in the interest of fund-raising. In this case, it's best to pick something local. I've found that most people who have money, nice pianos, and houses are very interested in giving back to the communities in which they reside. A concert is often a way to bring those people together for a good cause.

And they'd much rather come together for a good cause than give money to an artist they don't know just to show off their house and piano.
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