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#1900962 - 05/21/12 10:22 PM DIY DP in grand piano cab
egoaudio Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/02/12
Posts: 13
Loc: Seattle, wa
Hello All,

My name is Erik and I'm fairly new to the forum. Big thanks to all who share on this place, I love reading reviews and opinions on DP's.

I've been playing DP's on and off for the last couple years and just lately I've got thee itch to upgrade to a nicer one. I currently have an older Casio Privia 555R. Not a bad unit but definitely lacking for me in the sound and touch departments.

I recently purchased a new home and really wanted a grand piano as well, so I thought of combining the two in last summer when I moved in. I thought of gutting a grand for a DP back then but thought it would be too much work.... But I saw this thread about two months ago:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1765209/3.html

I thought, sweet, if he can do it I can too! Huge thanks for sharing, CMac! Because of you I'm taking the plunge.

After finding a 1940's Knabe piano for sale and in fair condition for about $200, I had to move forward. I now have the piano gutted, the sides carved out to fit about a 53.625" wide DP (thinking Kawai MP6) and a new modern base. Eventually the base will be covered with fabric like a curtain kind of. I'll upload what I have in mind for that.

Anyways, electronics will be stored in the base where shelves will be made. Instead of making solid wood sides, I decided on all open sides for ease of access to electronics and weight savings. The base feels like it already weighs around 100lbs. I used 1.25" MDF for top and bottom. I plan on using some of the amplifiers that I have lying around that I didn't use in my home theater. I have 2 6 channel Elan amplifiers, about 50w per channel, 2 audiosource 2 channel amps, behringer DCX2496 processor, and/or a sony 7 channel amplifier.

I've got load of these speakers:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-170

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=275-085&FTR=pt2c

I used them in two huge line arrays for my home theater and they ended up sounding really really nice. I've also got 8 x 8" subwoofers that I used in a quad subwoofer cabinet with passive radiators for another project that I could use here as well.

Anyway, enough rambling... I thought I'd share my project and get any input from those who have good ideas for something like this. I love the sound of my theater line arrays but it doesn't seem like I'll be able to use the same logic for this project since the speakers wont be aligned vertically, but instead horizontally. If I just cram as many of the above speakers in the cabinet, I'll more than likely end up having tons of lobing and cancellation issues. This makes me want to think things out before moving forward. In the avantgrand, there are four pairs of speakers on the top of the cabinet. I take it they placed them so because of the way the audio was recorded for samples. My kawai will only send mono or stereo so.... Maybe I toy with the idea of a stereo 2.1 setup. Subs on bottom of cab from 20hz up to around 80 or so. Mids up top to about 2.5-4khz, tweets up from there. The linked planar tweets do not vertically disperse much but maybe I could do some 90 degree angling of them, although maybe dome tweets are better for this instead?

The mids that I have do get fairly low all by themselves in the line arrays. I have them ported to around 50hz and they do produce a substantial amount of base because of the shear quantity of them.

Maybe I should think of going with some high efficiency pro-audio woofers instead though.... Yadda yadda and I keep going around and around.

Sorry for rambling again. If anyone has any suggestions/input, I'd really appreciate it. I'm pretty stoked on this project but can definitely afford some time to experiment before I put all my eggs in one basket so to speak.

Best regards,

Erik

Pics:







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#1900966 - 05/21/12 10:26 PM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9009
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Very cool!

Keep us updated. wink

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1900971 - 05/21/12 10:34 PM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
egoaudio Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/02/12
Posts: 13
Loc: Seattle, wa
Thank you, James. I sure will. Here's kinda what I was thinking of for the fabric on the base:



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#1900973 - 05/21/12 10:37 PM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3546
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Fascinating project! I take it you removed the original legs and made that base so you could spread the load over a larger floor area and protect your floor? Or was it purely a design decision? I can see it becoming a very striking piece of furniture when it's all done and painted. I look forward to seeing it develop. I think it would be a good idea to make sure it can accommodate the largest of slab pianos so that it's upgradeable without having to carve it up again.

By the way, aesthetically, I prefer the look of the timber base like the last picture on your original post. Having it follow the curves of the top is very interesting to look at. I can imagine the fabric curtains looking far less tidy than the drawing suggests too. Fabric is often very non-compliant.

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#1900978 - 05/21/12 10:50 PM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: ando]
egoaudio Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/02/12
Posts: 13
Loc: Seattle, wa
Hi Ando,

Thanks for the suggestion and compliment.

I decided on the base design because I wanted a place to store the electronics outside of the cabinet for the most part. I think I'll be installing the DCX2496 into the front face of the piano, above the keys for easy access to EQ's, time alignments, crossovers, etc. The large base did come to mind as a good idea to spread out the load and not kill the carpet. lol. I think it will be a nice piece of furniture in the end, both functional and stylish.

I thought of going wider with the arms of the piano, allowing a wider overall DP... But I'm getting close to the ends of the arms, I think there's about 3/4" per arm left. The MP6 will fit nicely and in the future, maybe I'll just have to limit my selections to 53.625" wide DP's.

I still like the original too. I may end up curving the right side base to give that look and then adding a curved door or something for easy access to rear electronics. Good advice on the fabric. I'll consider it for sure.

Erik



Edited by egoaudio (05/21/12 10:51 PM)

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#1901030 - 05/22/12 12:55 AM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
Kona_V-Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 279
Very nice project. I would love try this type of project out with my V-Piano someday when I have the spare time and extra room in my house. Watching these projects does inspire me to want to achieve the same thing. I already have four high quality speakers which simulate a grand piano sound when positioned in the proper way as described in the manual. However it would be hard figuring out the most efficient way to place them within a cabinet. I guess I could copy the exact dimensions of the V-Piano Grand however the speakers I have are larger and louder so I would probably need to buy smaller ones for this type of project. Keep up the good work. I'll be interested to see it completed.
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1901733 - 05/23/12 09:12 AM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
R_B Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 501
Ahhh,
"Would I ?"
or "Why wouldn't I ?"

I admire your "intestinal fortitude" for such a project, but I am thinking "If I had the SPACE for a grand, would I do this ?"
I probably COULD get a grand in here, although anything over about 6 ft would mean some furniture re-arrangement and would likely overpower the house, but an "apparent" grand could be turned down to the point where other family members could do whatever they want without having to attend my practice sessions whether they like it or not.
I think if I were to sacrifice enough of my living space for a grand I would want to have the FEEL of a grand - and I doubt that I would actually GET that with just the carcass of a grand with a keyboard, electronics and speakers in it, however good those components may be.

I am just thinking out loud here, again I admire your project and in many ways would like to do something similar, but at the end of the day I think it would make me want a "physical" grande even more.

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#1901791 - 05/23/12 11:03 AM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
egoaudio Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/02/12
Posts: 13
Loc: Seattle, wa
Thanks RB. I went back and forth before buying and gutting the baby grand on whether or not I should do it but obviously I took the plunge.

Things I tossed around in my head were:

1) How much I like the true acoustic sound vs. digital through speakers.
2) Tuning every year – I did not like the thought of having to shell out a few hundred dollars every year just to keep my instrument in tune.
3) My tendency and the enjoyment I get from tweaking electronics and audio quite frequently.

I ended up deciding that I didn’t like the true acoustic sound that much more than high quality samples with EQ’ing, tweaking, etc. The ability to change piano sounds, record and tweak on the fly, not to mention the fact that I absolutely love some of the digital piano actions out there vs. acoustics all led me to this path… I learned to play on a Roland after all.

So here I am, in the middle of a huge project… and enjoying the possibilities/ideas I’m coming up with. I’ll try to get some sketchup time in this week to show some possible speaker positioning schemes. Toying with the idea of a sideways line array from side to side of the piano with the little 5” speakers, possibly two rows in a curved orientation so distance from each driver to ear is equal. Time alignment could equalize distance for the two rows. I’d lose stereo imaging depending on how things are amped but it could look and sound good with enough tweaking. Also on my mind is a high efficiency driver setup with three or four 10’s, three or four tweets 4 and a bass section.

Erik

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#1901828 - 05/23/12 12:09 PM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
leemax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/10
Posts: 501
Loc: pacific nw, usa
Very nice, indeed! It will be fun to watch this develop. I must say that I agree with ando on the use of wood instead of fabric for the base encolsure. You clearly are a fine woodworker, and I think that wood is much more in keeping with a piano than is fabric. Just my two cents. How are you going to finish it? Be sure to keep us updated!
_________________________
Lee

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#1908495 - 06/04/12 10:46 PM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
egoaudio Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/02/12
Posts: 13
Loc: Seattle, wa
Hello again everyone,

I've done a bit of work since my last post. Got the top soundboard cut out and ready for speakers. Did a lot of listening to different speaker configurations, crossovers, time alignment prior to moving forward with the soundboard but it does sound great to me. Decided on 18 mids, 8 planar tweeters and one 15

Got my MP6 an it freakin' rocks. I'll be posting more photos of my progress soon. THanks for looking!

EGO






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#1908504 - 06/04/12 10:55 PM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3042
Loc: Oregon
Wow! That is one impressive piece of work!!! It should sound amazing, too.

Now how again are you going to get it in the back of your car? wink
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1908509 - 06/04/12 11:17 PM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
egoaudio Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/02/12
Posts: 13
Loc: Seattle, wa
Lol. Thanks Pops. I'll be able to slide the MP6 right out on some "keyboard tray" arms that I'm mounting underneath it. Similar to a file cabinet but beneath the keyboard.

The big question in my mind right now is what type of finish? I could strip the gloss finish off with little trouble but after I do, should I restain? or try some textured type of finish? I'd really like to get people's ideas on this. I'm not thinking rainbows and butterfly patters. more like an interesting simple design/patters or a cool texture. Not sure on the color either.

Ideas are welcome!

EGO

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#1908548 - 06/05/12 12:53 AM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 739
Loc: Denton Texas
It might be cool to go with a matte black and cherry wood(?) motif to tie in with the DP.
_________________________
Les C Deal





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#1908666 - 06/05/12 08:38 AM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
Qbert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 328
Loc: Italy
Just one pedal?!
_________________________
GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m

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#1908701 - 06/05/12 10:02 AM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
analogdino Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 62
Loc: Thornhill, Ontario, Canada
Outstanding project, Erik! Did I see any reference to virtual piano (my next upgrade, when I get around to it) rather than a stored sample DP? You'd have to house the CPU, of course, but the flexibility for future development would be unbounded. Another thought... with the speakers in the unit I presume you would also get tactile feedback to the keyboard (but not from the subwoofer.) I'd be interested to know if a blindfolded pianist, led up to your piano to play, would know if he was, or not, playing and acoustic instrument.
Cheers,
Roger
_________________________
An engineer(EE) from Thornhill, near Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
General Music PRO1 stage-piano plus very good audio system.
"Repair, refurbish, rebuild, reuse, re-engineer, recycle..." Keep the old 'uns playing! Applies to pianos as well as vintage radios (my other hobby!)

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#1908709 - 06/05/12 10:14 AM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3546
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
How have you implemented the Ultradrive, Erik? Did you use that to correct phase problems or are you using the crossover capabilities as well? Did you consider using larger diameter drivers on the left side of the piano? What made you go with the same sized drives all round? Sorry about all the questions... Just too curious!

I can see this project really coming alive if you can get PC based piano software with multiple sampling points. If you could route the sound to where the microphones were placed during sampling, it would sound all the more authentic. You basically have a speaker array there that could be set up in an infinite number of ways.

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#1908718 - 06/05/12 10:34 AM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
Vectistim Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 316
Loc: Reading, UK
If anyone in the UK fancies having a go at this I saw an old grand piano for a pound on Reading's gumtree a few days ago.

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#1913903 - 06/15/12 08:53 AM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
leemax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/10
Posts: 501
Loc: pacific nw, usa
I just wanted to bounce this thread back to page one. Do you have an update or new pics for us, Erik? Keep us updated, OK? Your work is amazing, thanks for sharing!
_________________________
Lee

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#1914313 - 06/15/12 11:14 PM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: leemax]
egoaudio Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/02/12
Posts: 13
Loc: Seattle, wa
Hello all!

I'm back with some updates. Other things have been keeping me busy... but I've got some good photos of updates and responses. Thanks for loooking!


Originally Posted By: leemax
I just wanted to bounce this thread back to page one. Do you have an update or new pics for us, Erik? Keep us updated, OK? Your work is amazing, thanks for sharing!


Thanks for the comment and the bump, Lee! I'm just a DIY'er with some heart and some guts. lol. New photos below!

Originally Posted By: LesCharles73
It might be cool to go with a matte black and cherry wood(?) motif to tie in with the DP.


I like the idea. I've done some color samples for my wife and she's digging the moderately glossy look, sorry no photos of that yet. Later on I might add some elevated wood panels around the outside of the cabinet that are framed in similar in style to this.... which is freaking sexy!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pianotuning/6027066585/


Originally Posted By: Qbert
Just one pedal?!


I'm not classically trained and I've only ever used the one pedal. Eventually I'd like to learn to use the other pedals but for what I play, I'm good for now.


Originally Posted By: analogdino
Outstanding project, Erik! Did I see any reference to virtual piano (my next upgrade, when I get around to it) rather than a stored sample DP? You'd have to house the CPU, of course, but the flexibility for future development would be unbounded. Another thought... with the speakers in the unit I presume you would also get tactile feedback to the keyboard (but not from the subwoofer.) I'd be interested to know if a blindfolded pianist, led up to your piano to play, would know if he was, or not, playing and acoustic instrument.
Cheers,
Roger


Hi Analog, I was actually going back and forth between the MP6 and a virtual piano with a nice controller. I have tons of room to house the CPU and I'm sure I could work a cool touch screen/music rest into the existing unit. I ended up going with the MP6 because I liked its action best out of all DP's that I could test, I really considered the Soundlogic units but no one carries these in my area so I could only try a used 990? model and it was nice but the Kawai was tops for me. Eventually I will be adding a PC setup.

The subwoofer will be built into the grand cabinet in the next week or so I'm thinking. It will be in its own enclosure with passive radiators tuned in the 20hz region. There is tactile feedback for sure!

Someday when I bring a real pianist over to my house I'll run this blind test you suggest.



Originally Posted By: ando
How have you implemented the Ultradrive, Erik? Did you use that to correct phase problems or are you using the crossover capabilities as well? Did you consider using larger diameter drivers on the left side of the piano? What made you go with the same sized drives all round? Sorry about all the questions... Just too curious!

I can see this project really coming alive if you can get PC based piano software with multiple sampling points. If you could route the sound to where the microphones were placed during sampling, it would sound all the more authentic. You basically have a speaker array there that could be set up in an infinite number of ways.


Hi Ando, I currently have the left 6 speakers wired to each other in a series parallel arrangement. So it goes, 6 speakers left are left mids, 4 tweets left are left high, 6 mids center are center, 4 tweets right are right high, 6 mids right are mid right. I've tested the sound with and without the center channels on and with a few variations of wiring for mids left/right and tweets left and right leaving some disconnected mids/tweets from their 'group'.... changed crossover points messed with EQ settings and I really prefer when all speakers are connected. Center channel depends on the sound I've chosen whether I turn it on or off or EQ or crossover.... So many damn possibilities! lol. In order to truly have total control over each and every speaker that I have installed I'd need 27 channels of processing and amplification which I don't have right now, nor do I think I need since I'm pretty satisfied right now..... the possibilities with great multichannel PC samples has me intrigued. I didn't look too far into this because frankly I don't have the cash for much after the DP purchase, but I am open to suggestions on software that has more than two sample location. The way I've designed this setup allows me to easily change the speaker soundboard, All I have to do is get a new piece(s) of MDF and cut the necessary speaker holes.

I like the thought of being able to easily change the speaker setup if I run into cash for higher end drivers.

Originally Posted By: Vectistim
If anyone in the UK fancies having a go at this I saw an old grand piano for a pound on Reading's gumtree a few days ago.


For people out there thinking about this, it is definitely not for those who like projects to be complete quickly or over a weekend... unless you really get after it day after day this kind of thing will take a while. Mine has taken so long because I'm sort of designing on the fly being that this is one of the first projects I've done like this. It'll be worth it though!

PHOTOS: The ones at the end are of designs that I found on the net and enjoyed. I'm thinking of using them on the outside of the cabinet in a very subtle way. I cut out a quick drawing I made similar to the note w/wings and tried it in white.... I like the design but I think the cabinet will look cooler with a very subtle, maybe matte, pattern or single image design... Still unsure and ideas are very welcome at this point.

I'm getting very close to the finishing/painting stage of the cabinet. I've since cut the base of the cabinet to contour the cabinet like in my sketchup design and it looks very nice.























Edited by egoaudio (06/15/12 11:22 PM)

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#1915213 - 06/18/12 10:20 AM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
kiedysktos. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Europe, Poland
Beautiful work smile

About the painting, you can paint it all in one color, like black, and than consider some pattern: by printing it out on the paper and experiment with placing it using tape.

About sound system, there can be a gap between deep low and medium frequencies. You have 15'' speaker, which can go really low, and 18 woofers. I don't know is it doable, but it could sound better if you use 6 speakers in the middle to work in low medium frequencies, even splitting them: 3 medium low left and 3 medium low right (even though they are in one column). For example, in 200Hz - 400Hz or in 250Hz - 450Hz band.
_________________________
Roland FP-4

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#1915311 - 06/18/12 03:11 PM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: kiedysktos.]
egoaudio Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/02/12
Posts: 13
Loc: Seattle, wa
Thank you Kiedyskots. Great idea about cutting out the image prior to diving into the actual painting of the image. I will certainly take your advise!

What type of crossovers are you suggesting? It may be easier for me to understand with this confguration (1 being closest to keyboard).

So many configurations!

Mids left:
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:

Tweets Left:
1:
2:
3:
4:

Mids Center:
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:

Tweets Right:
1:
2:
3:
4:

Mids right:
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:

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#1915580 - 06/19/12 05:31 AM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
kiedysktos. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Europe, Poland
egoaudio, it was just a suggestion. I don't make speakers, and people who design it are the best ones to advise. There are forums about DIY speakers. One basic question is about close speakers vs open speakers. Your design is open, but it may be more effective to place 15'' speaker in separate casing (which will be part of your piano casing), eventually placing every woofer in small, separate casing or woofers in groups of 6 in separate casing, or just make one big "soundboard casing" (close the speaker space from the bottom). Every casing has different resonance and sometimes it helps speaker a lot.

About crossovers, I can give you an example what I mean. Let's split all frequencies to 4 bands, it will allow speakers to breathe:
(again, I'm not speaker expert so my frequency division may need some adjusting)

Low: up to 200 Hz (one, mono channel)
Medium Low: 200Hz - 800Hz (stereo --> left and right separately)
Medium High: 800Hz - 3000Hz (stereo)
High: from 3kHz up. (stereo)

You said your speakers are already wired together, so at first I suggested this:

Mids left: all Medium High (left)

Tweets Left: all High (left)

Mids Center:
1: Medium Low right
2: Medium Low right
3: Medium Low right
4: Medium Low left
5: Medium Low left
6: Medium Low left

Tweets Right: all High (right)

Mids right: all Medium High (right)


But, since in this configuration speakers playing certain bands are grouped together, some negative acoustic phenomenons may be stronger (like induction of some frequency or weird illusions). In piano every string plays full frequency band smile I think it could be better idea to spread bands in different places, like in this proposition:

Mids left:
1: Medium High L
2: Medium Low L
3: Medium High L
4: Medium Low L
5: Medium High L
6: Medium Low L

Tweets Left: all High L

Mids Center:
1: Medium High R
2: Medium Low R
3: Medium High L
4: Medium Low R
5: Medium Low L
6: Medium Low L

Tweets Right: all High R

Mids right:
1: Medium Low R
2: Medium High R
3: Medium Low R
4: Medium High R
5: Medium Low R
6: Medium High R


It's far batter to visualize it (honestly, it's necessary), so I'll add a picture:

As you see, Medium Low has more speakers than Medium High, but lower frequencies need more energy than higher ones, they are also less directional, I focused on Medium High symmetry.

In the end, again, I don't design speaker systems. This one is quite complex, so you'll have to try it anyway to be sure. When job is done, professionals measure frequency response, then adjust it using EQ.

Good luck smile
_________________________
Roland FP-4

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#1917797 - 06/23/12 05:25 PM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
egoaudio Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/02/12
Posts: 13
Loc: Seattle, wa
Thank you for the suggestions kiedysktos. I think for the time being I will keep the current setup wired and crossed over the way it is. I now have it like this:

tweets: 2.5khz to 20khz
mids: 100hz to 2.5khz
sub: 20hz to 100hz

I brought the unit into the house this week and I absolutely love the sound I'm getting while in the living room. The lid has not been finished yet and shouldn't take me more than a week or so to have it on. I also need to finish the music stand and front keyboard trim.

I've decided not to house the subwoofer within the piano cabinet but below it instead. I really like the sound I get from the reverse wave coming out of the bottom of the cabinet and this will allow me to keep that.

I'll soon be adding either panels or some sort of curtains to the base as well.

So, still a bit of work to be done but at least I can practice and I love how it looks and sounds in my living room!





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#1917799 - 06/23/12 05:34 PM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: kiedysktos.]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: kiedysktos.
egoaudio, it was just a suggestion. I don't make speakers, and people who design it are the best ones to advise. There are forums about DIY speakers. One basic question is about close speakers vs open speakers. Your design is open, but it may be more effective to place 15'' speaker in separate casing (which will be part of your piano casing), eventually placing every woofer in small, separate casing or woofers in groups of 6 in separate casing, or just make one big "soundboard casing" (close the speaker space from the bottom). Every casing has different resonance and sometimes it helps speaker a lot.


No. I have to disagree. You really do want an "open baffle" design. First off I doubt there is a choice. If you were to try and build a bass reflex enclosure for your woofers the enclose would likely never fit inside that Grand piano case. But even more importantly the dispersion of the sound would not come close to what a grand piano does. What you need to do is used woofers that are designed for "open baffle" and simply place them facing down on holes you cut in the (very thinck and strong" horizontal baffle that is taking the place of the sound board.

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#1917822 - 06/23/12 07:11 PM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: egoaudio]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9009
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
That looks terrific Erik - great job!

James
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1918485 - 06/25/12 11:18 AM Re: DIY DP in grand piano cab [Re: ChrisA]
kiedysktos. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Europe, Poland
egoaudio, if it now sounds good, perfect smile goal achieved. With your speakers set I'm sure sound is full and nice smile and it looks beautiful, that's what I call inspiration. Looking forward to other DIY lovers!

Originally Posted By: ChrisA
No. I have to disagree. You really do want an "open baffle" design. First off I doubt there is a choice. If you were to try and build a bass reflex enclosure for your woofers the enclose would likely never fit inside that Grand piano case. But even more importantly the dispersion of the sound would not come close to what a grand piano does. What you need to do is used woofers that are designed for "open baffle" and simply place them facing down on holes you cut in the (very thinck and strong" horizontal baffle that is taking the place of the sound board.

As I said, it MAY be more effective. I think you're right, about open design. But don't forget speakers play samples, which actually captured some of the soundboard of other piano, so you can't treat speaker signal as pure string sound - placing speakers down would require some experiments smile
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