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#1901054 - 05/22/12 02:20 AM Daniel in waiting for a miracle
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: KZ
Upright "Belarus" before and after tuning
Daniel is young pianist. For a long time, he lived without his own upright. Now in his house there a piano, "Belarus" 1976 year. He is very love it's upright. After maxim_tuner performed preventive maintenance and repair work, and removed the dust and all sorts of unnecessary items off. Max temperamented all the sounds. Daniel would to play with great tenacity and desire now. In the video, Daniel performs the one play on the first time in bad tuning piano. Then he performs it's when the piano tuned . Good luck to you, the young musician, in the vast expanses of MUSIC!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd4xZCdPMwU
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1901063 - 05/22/12 02:53 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Maximillyan]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7078
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Maximillyan
Upright "Belarus" before and after tuning
Daniel is young pianist. For a long time, he lived without his own upright. Now in his house there a piano, "Belarus" 1976 year. He is very love it's upright. After maxim_tuner performed preventive maintenance and repair work, and removed the dust and all sorts of unnecessary items off. Max temperamented all the sounds. Daniel would to play with great tenacity and desire now. In the video, Daniel performs the one play on the first time in bad tuning piano. Then he performs it's when the piano tuned . Good luck to you, the young musician, in the vast expanses of MUSIC!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd4xZCdPMwU


The miracle would be that you learn to tune, that kid certainly deserve a better tuner (it can be seen in its eyes Max !)

You'd better not confuse religion and hard work !
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#1901132 - 05/22/12 09:10 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Maximillyan]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2356
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Well "it sounds better than it first did" is about as far as I would venture to comment on. Hard to comment on the complete success of a tuning without seeing/hearing the piano in person, or tuning it yourself.

A 40 y/o Belarus with worn hard hammers plinking off worn old strings is quite a limiting factor for how far one can go with a tuning, even for an expert. Some of these have so many false beats on strings that a bottle of asperin and ulcer medication beside the tuning hammer is as important as the tuning tip..
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

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#1901157 - 05/22/12 09:59 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Emmery]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Emmery

A 40 y/o Belarus with worn hard hammers plinking off worn old strings is quite a limiting factor for how far one can go with a tuning, even for an expert.

Emmery,if you support my experiments, I thank
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1901293 - 05/22/12 01:41 PM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Maximillyan]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Max,
I know it is difficult for you to read and understand the Randy Potter course and the Reblitz books I sent to you in English.

Did you receive the DVD’s I sent to you? Even though they will also be in English this will help you to see and understand the proper techniques for tuning and repairs.

Do not be discouraged by members who ridicule and mock you when you are trying to understand and learn. Just ignore them.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1901311 - 05/22/12 02:03 PM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
pianolive Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 325
Loc: Europe
[quote=Do not be discouraged by members who ridicule and mock you when you are trying to understand and learn. Just ignore them.[/quote]

Very well said.

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#1901315 - 05/22/12 02:11 PM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: pianolive]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
I'll second that. You so called know-it-all's should be ashamed of yourselves. You were beginners and learning yourselves once; how would you have liked bring on the receiving end of what you're dishing out? On a public forum, no less. Way to present your best side to future techs and customers.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1901358 - 05/22/12 03:29 PM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Maximillyan]
Johnkie Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 681
Loc: England
We're all entitled to our views - This is a public forum, and I see no real progress at all. If members are prepared to post such videos, then they ( and their supporters) should not be at all surprised of the resultant critique passed.

By all means have a view, but I suggest you keep it focused on your own personal view, and not on the views or comments of others.

For what it's worth, I salute those that have taken the time and trouble to send tools and course information to Max ... but after a year of being a member of this forum, I honestly feel that it has been wasted. Language certainly is a sticking point, granted, but I can't help thinking that there are so many youtube videos out there in cyberspace demonstrating technquies of tuning, that this chap is in reality, just someone that will never change.
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

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#1901383 - 05/22/12 04:36 PM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Maximillyan]
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3833
I would suggest to Max that perhaps he is not doing enough passes on this piano. This piano likely needed a pitch raise, and two additional passes - and even then would not be stable without another trip after the strings had stretched a bit. Belarus pianos I've seen here in the USA are not the best instrument, and were very unstable at first.

Also, I recommend ear protection while vacuuming.


Edited by Bob (05/22/12 04:47 PM)
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






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#1901385 - 05/22/12 04:37 PM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Johnkie]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Johnkie
We're all entitled to our views - This is a public forum, and I see no real progress at all.


And there has been no progress shown in some attitudes towards Max.

Max is making a sincere attempt to learn. We can do one of two things; assist with instructions or not assist at all.

Critique helps no-one in this case.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1901399 - 05/22/12 05:10 PM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Maximillyan]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8366
Loc: Georgia, USA
Maybe some of the unisons slipped a little shortly after the tuning. When I tune my pianos, I play them hard right afterward and then go back over the unisons. My ability to tune a stable unison has improved, but a few always seem to slip just a little... the hard playing and then clean-up seems to work well.

I'll agree the piano sounded better than it did to start with but needed another unison clean-up. The youngster in the video has a lot of potential… I was impressed.

Dan, thank you for your willingness to help us newbies who are learning the art of tuning... it means a lot and is indeed appreciated. smile

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1901404 - 05/22/12 05:16 PM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos
Originally Posted By: Johnkie
We're all entitled to our views - This is a public forum, and I see no real progress at all.


And there has been no progress shown in some attitudes towards Max.

Max is making a sincere attempt to learn. We can do one of two things; assist with instructions or not assist at all.

Critique helps no-one in this case.


Critique is one thing, ridicule is quite another. I don't think I ever had someone ridicule or mock my work when I was learning, especially if I was trying. I do recall though a lot of help, advice, and suggestions.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1901410 - 05/22/12 05:23 PM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Maximillyan]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Hi Rick,

I never watched the video. Emmery’s observations are accurate here;

Originally Posted By: Emmery

A 40 y/o Belarus with worn hard hammers plinking off worn old strings is quite a limiting factor for how far one can go with a tuning, even for an expert.


I have come across a couple of these pianos here and I can tell you it is quite a challenge to make them sound decent.

That is a good process that you use Rick; work the instrument and then check out the unisons or octaves. There will always be a few that go sideways, as the mind wandering while tuning is a common occurrence.

No problem on the assistance for newbies. Glad to read that you are getting along with the tuning. It does take a while to get the technique, timing, string in tune, and pin setting all at the same time….
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1901411 - 05/22/12 05:25 PM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Maximillyan]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7078
Loc: France
May be
1° you where not believing you know yet everything
2° you where trying to learn, asking advice ?
3° you have a little idea of the meaning of humility when learning.

It is not particularly agreeable to mock Max but the way he present his work makes it more or less inevitable. If he dont slow down others than me will do so as well.

I had almost to insult him to push him to change a bit his original way who did not change the tiniest bit in 1 year even after having received the correct tools and some instructions.

That said, some are more good or more fast to learn others don't.

I have seen people there begging him to please accept the gift of a tuning lever ... you may be jocking !
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#1901723 - 05/23/12 09:00 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Maximillyan]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2356
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Originally Posted By: Maximillyan
Originally Posted By: Emmery

A 40 y/o Belarus with worn hard hammers plinking off worn old strings is quite a limiting factor for how far one can go with a tuning, even for an expert.

Emmery,if you support my experiments, I thank


Max, just keep at it and if you remain open to constructive criticism, you will find a path to constant improvement. Many of the folks here do not understand the conditions you are working in and what is available to you as far as limited materials and resources.

I had spent my first 5 months as a tech (mid 80's) travelling through Eastern Europe tuning and fixing pianos in Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria (former east block countries). As soon as you were 20 km from a major city there were no tuners or techs available to the public....period. Gas was so expensive, just about everybody travelled by bus or train. Even in the small shops in the large cities, it was not unusual to wait for 6-8 months for simple parts or supplies.

People would cobble together what they could, to fix damaged pianos. Leather was procured from old shoes and straps, and cloth and felt came from discarded clothing and hats ect.. Temperaments and tunings were done by matching to fixed pitch instruments, usually by a local choir master, using a spanner wrench.

In the context of all this, even a highly skilled tech would have to be part McGiver to pull off a decent repair. Easy for people to laugh at or scoff, who have no real concept of what lies outside of their own culture or territory.



Edited by Emmery (05/23/12 09:02 AM)
Edit Reason: changed quotes
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

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#1901755 - 05/23/12 10:03 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos


Did you receive the DVD’s I sent to you?
Just ignore them.

1sorry Dan don't receive its now
2 I shall study of tuning only good masters to
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1901758 - 05/23/12 10:07 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: pianolive]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: pianolive
[quote=Do not be discouraged by members who ridicule and mock you when you are trying to understand and learn. Just ignore them.


Very well said. [/quote]
i glad your attention to my video and your support
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1901761 - 05/23/12 10:13 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Rickster]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Rickster


I'll agree the piano sounded better than it did to start with but needed another unison clean-up. The youngster in the video has a lot of potential… I was impressed.

Thank you Rick, heard the the difference in sound.
Daniel today thanked you for your appreciation of his playing
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1901780 - 05/23/12 10:48 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Maximillyan]
Mark R. Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 1925
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Max,

How would you evaluate your own tuning? For example:
1) At which frequency is A4? 425Hz? 430Hz? 435Hz? 440Hz?
2) Did you choose this frequency? Why?
3) What do you think about the treble D (D6) at 7:42 and 7:53? Is it in tune with itself? Is it in tune with the rest of the piano?
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.

1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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#1901788 - 05/23/12 10:59 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Emmery]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Emmery
Originally Posted By: Maximillyan
[quote=Emmery]
A 40 y/o Belarus with worn hard hammers plinking off worn old strings is quite a limiting factor for how far one can go with a tuning, even for an expert.

Emmery,if you support my experiments, I thank



Easy for people to laugh at or scoff, who have no real concept of what lies outside of their own culture or territory.


Emmery,your words straight to the point. With one remark, the situation in which I have to be a lot sadder than that which you write (the collapse of socialism in Eastern Europe). I'm "to sculpts and to screws" (the oldest the last century pianos), as soon as I can. If all this I make been criticized in the U.S., Canada and Europe, I glad that it turns out. I must repeat, that I in poverty now, on alms modest yet does not mean I have to give up his countrymen. They sincerely believe in me and my actions. I'm naked and open to the constructive criticism that helps me in my craft. During the year, I personally felt that the piano sound after setting a bit better than before.

What “to be part McGiver”?
Regards yours maxim_tuner
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1901795 - 05/23/12 11:17 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Maximillyan]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2356
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Max, "McGiver" was a character in a television series here in N.A. who got himself out of bad situations by using devices he built out of scraps. He is often referred to when someone must make do with limited resources or uses unconventional methods.
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

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#1901804 - 05/23/12 11:33 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Mark R.]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Mark R.
Max,
How would you evaluate your own tuning?

Thank Mark R, for your attention. Here it is necessary to understand me that I did consciously choose unstandard A4. Why not? Upright (36) years of age are not tuned for a long time, I'm afraid to break a string. I first identify the more or less correct-sounding sounds and correct their Intervals with the rest of the piano
D (D6) sounds no tuning? at 7:42 and 7:53 Sorry Mark, my ear is acceptable
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1901806 - 05/23/12 11:33 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Maximillyan]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8366
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Emmery
Max, "McGiver" was a character in a television series here in N.A. who got himself out of bad situations by using devices he built out of scraps. He is often referred to when someone must make do with limited resources or uses unconventional methods.

And, he could work miracles with duct tape... oddly enough, I work in the field of HVACR and we do not use duct tape on HVAC ducts; it’s okay for a while but then disintegrates and comes apart after a short time... laugh

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1901811 - 05/23/12 11:39 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Emmery]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Emmery
Max, "McGiver" was a character in a television series here in N.A. who got himself out of bad situations by using devices he built out of scraps. He is often referred to when someone must make do with limited resources or uses unconventional methods.

maxim_tuner_bodger_McGiver from Kazakhstan. It's joke
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1901813 - 05/23/12 11:47 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Rickster]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Rickster
Originally Posted By: Emmery
Max, "McGiver" was a character in a television series here in N.A. who got himself out of bad situations by using devices he built out of scraps. He is often referred to when someone must make do with limited resources or uses unconventional methods.

it’s okay for a while but then disintegrates and comes apart after a short time... laugh

Rick

everything in this world to break finally
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1901821 - 05/23/12 12:01 PM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Bob]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Bob
I would suggest to Max that perhaps he is not doing enough passes on this piano. This piano likely needed a pitch raise, and two additional passes - and even then would not be stable without another trip after the strings had stretched a bit. Belarus pianos I've seen here in the USA are not the best instrument, and were very unstable at first.

Bob,if you can detail write your feelings "Belarus" upright about. What it was in your practice many this piano? In my video it's was buyed about 35 dollars
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1901825 - 05/23/12 12:06 PM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Bob]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Bob

Also, I recommend ear protection while vacuuming.

Charlie Chaplin did not use thing protection in his films. It's joke
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#2127791 - 08/04/13 02:18 AM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Maximillyan]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: KZ
More than a year when Max tuned Daniel's upright "Belarus" . He took competition program now . Grand piano "Blüthner"
http://my.mail.ru/video/mail/golovkovdanila/_myvideo/9.html




Edited by Maximillyan (08/04/13 02:26 AM)
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#2127931 - 08/04/13 12:43 PM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: Maximillyan]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
If nothing else, Max's threads bring to light that bad habits acuired in the early stages of learning are extremely difficult to erradicate later on.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#2128162 - 08/04/13 09:26 PM Re: Daniel in waiting for a miracle [Re: rxd]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1479
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: rxd
that bad habits acuired in the early stages of learning are extremely difficult to erradicate later on.

Yes it's so. But Max tries to come with it's. He shows in Daniel's clips as Dan plays on grand piano after one year study. Max knows about myself all. And him don't should write here about myself
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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