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#1901599 - 05/23/12 12:56 AM Gluing Felt to Brass
Thomas Dowell Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 127
Loc: Twin Lakes, WI
Just a quick question:

What is the best way to glue felt to brass? Titebond, PVC-E, burn shellac, bubblegum? Never tried it yet, wondered if anyone else has.

Thanks!
_________________________
Thomas Dowell, R.P.T.
Dowell Piano
www.dowellpiano.com

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#1901604 - 05/23/12 01:07 AM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Thomas Dowell]
Olek Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 8240
Loc: France

A mix of alcohol with shellac which is burned to get rid of the alcohol. it makes a heavy paste that glues leather or felt to metal.
Not sure it can hold well on brass, which is greasy, I've used it on bronze or iron.

There are modern polyurethane adhesives to glue brass/wood Pattex (Henkel) have such product but the reference escapes me.

find that one : http://www.woodwriteltd.com/supplies.htm
which may be similar.
They state the glue is acid which is a good thing for oily supports.



Edited by Kamin (05/23/12 03:08 AM)
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#1901694 - 05/23/12 08:04 AM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Thomas Dowell]
Randy Karasik Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 498
Loc: Arvada, Colorado, USA, Earth
I recall reading something a few decades ago about gluing felt to metal with tar.

Where does one buy tar? (Have to admit, I've never tried)

I'll use epoxy because it's readily available - there's always one form or another of that in my shop.
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Serving Colorado Since 1978
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#1901696 - 05/23/12 08:09 AM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Thomas Dowell]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2547
Loc: PA
I've used contact cement, which worked good.
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#1901801 - 05/23/12 11:27 AM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Randy Karasik]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Randy Karasik
I'll use epoxy because it's readily available - there's always one form or another of that in my shop.

I can imagine epoxy doing a good job of sticking felt to brass. However, with felt being a material which wears and which will probably need to be replaced in the future, it should never be glued with an epoxy, in my mind. Inside pianos, reversibility should always be the determining factor in selecting adhesives.
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Piano Forte Supply
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#1901803 - 05/23/12 11:31 AM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Thomas Dowell]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 22703
Loc: Oakland
I do not believe that I have ever run across the necessity of gluing felt to brass in a piano. What is this for? Sometimes that affects the choice of adhesive.
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#1901877 - 05/23/12 01:36 PM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Thomas Dowell]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2481
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
I have used tiny amounts of Gorilla glue to get hard to stick surfaces to adhere. It does not lend itself to easy removal and requires sharp blade scraping if it needs to get redone. A trick with this glue is to stay well inside the perimeter of what you are gluing because it foams a bit when it sets up. About 20 minutes after application, you press down on the felt and the bubbles in the glue pop. Because it is fairly thick at this point it will not wick into the felt, hardening it.
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#1901967 - 05/23/12 05:16 PM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: BDB]
Thomas Dowell Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 127
Loc: Twin Lakes, WI
I'm contemplating a future damper job, and am looking once again at Supply's brass damper heads for verticals. Just was a passing thought. I would have simply called, but I thought I might try to pool a little more collective wisdom with this forum, as well as the fact that I may have need for gluing felt to brass for some other reason.

Regards,
_________________________
Thomas Dowell, R.P.T.
Dowell Piano
www.dowellpiano.com

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#1901972 - 05/23/12 05:27 PM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Thomas Dowell]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 22703
Loc: Oakland
I suspect that PVC-E would work well for that. But you should ask Jurgen what he recommends.
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#1902163 - 05/24/12 01:32 AM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Thomas Dowell]
Olek Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 8240
Loc: France
That is a 2 parts composite glue for the brass damper dowels. I will get you the ref. used in rc planes and similar hobbies.
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#1902334 - 05/24/12 11:05 AM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Thomas Dowell]
Bill McKaig,RPT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 92
Loc: Tampa, FL
Hi Thomas,
The best adhesive that I have found for this application is the solvent based ones like Duco cement. They grab quickly like animal glue and can be removed with heat or lacquer thinner(but not at the same time!).

My favorite brand is Scotch maximum strength adhesive which I carry with me all the time. It works great gluing individual felts as well as keytops.... both ivory and plastic (Just don't get any on the surface of the plastic key). It works really well for rubber buttons on case parts, but you have to have nerves of steel because it will burn a lacquer finish on contact.
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#1902497 - 05/24/12 05:15 PM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Bill McKaig,RPT]
Olek Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 8240
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Bill McKaig,RPT
Hi Thomas,
The best adhesive that I have found for this application is the solvent based ones like Duco cement. They grab quickly like animal glue and can be removed with heat or lacquer thinner(but not at the same time!).

My favorite brand is Scotch maximum strength adhesive which I carry with me all the time. It works great gluing individual felts as well as keytops.... both ivory and plastic (Just don't get any on the surface of the plastic key). It works really well for rubber buttons on case parts, but you have to have nerves of steel because it will burn a lacquer finish on contact.


SO a RPT can glue felts and ivories with contact cement ?
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#1902514 - 05/24/12 05:46 PM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Thomas Dowell]
Tom Penn Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 13
The "stop" felts on the bottoms of the pedals on quality grands are one example of gluing felt to brass, and they are indeed difficult to keep in place.

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#1902527 - 05/24/12 06:01 PM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Thomas Dowell]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4263
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Try the green latex contact from Lepage...or any other maker
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http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1902674 - 05/24/12 11:45 PM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Olek]
Bill McKaig,RPT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 92
Loc: Tampa, FL
To be be clear, I am not talking about contact cement which is neoprene rubber based. Solvent adhesive is like the airplane glue we used when we were young.
_________________________
Professional Piano Technician serving the Tampa bay area. website: mckaigpianoservice.com

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#1902695 - 05/25/12 12:37 AM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Thomas Dowell]
TunerJeff Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 526
Loc: Oregon Coast
Just a quick jab at this one...

Attended a manufacturer-class a while back, and the instructor addressed the issue of gluing leather (and felt) to the trapwork levers under grands. Such as the contact point of the pedal dowel and the lever for the shift mechanism. That pesky round one that keeps shifting, for instance. Contact cement does not stop it from sliding.

PVC-E glue (...like Eileen's Tacky Glue) and just a dab of SuperGlue (cyanoacrylate) to kick the glue and hold everything in place. One dot on the lever for the CA glue. Minor amount of glue on the leather or felt. Press together. Holds immediately and does not wick into felt or leather. Been using this with good success.

Some traditionalists will use the technique of old; a shellac stick (such as now used for repairing finishes) heated with a flame and dabbed on the metal, quickly place the leather or felt. Hold for 7 to 10 seconds, as the shellac cools. This is also a long-lasting technique.

Both of these work for me.
Yr. mileage may vary,
_________________________
Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT
Oregon Coast Piano Services
TunerJeff440@aol.com

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#1902699 - 05/25/12 12:47 AM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Bill McKaig,RPT]
Olek Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 8240
Loc: France
Yes I see, no I dont find it adapted to pianos, as it cannot be cleaned really , on ivories and porous materials, niet, to me...
Some day parts may need to be repaired.
PVC E or Vynil is yet not so ideal but the solvent based leave a messy surface , in RC planes or such the ungluing was not part of the job if I recall correctly.

Sorry but your assertion reminded me of some Scotch re glued ivories I had find in some customer's place !

The only thing I like with that glue is the smell !
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#1902700 - 05/25/12 12:51 AM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Tom Penn]
Olek Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 8240
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Tom Penn
The "stop" felts on the bottoms of the pedals on quality grands are one example of gluing felt to brass, and they are indeed difficult to keep in place.


THe burnt shellack is easy, may take some time to dry as there is yet a little alcohol within. commercial "shellack" sticks are containing a part of wax usually.

my concern is more with the oily surface of brass. Bronze is more dry.
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I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

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#1902968 - 05/25/12 01:26 PM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Thomas Dowell]
Thomas Dowell Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 127
Loc: Twin Lakes, WI
Thank you all for your responses so far.

@Kamin:

You have mentioned that brass is inherently "oily" or "greasy". Is this something that you feel can be removed, or is simply inherent with the material?

Thank you again,
_________________________
Thomas Dowell, R.P.T.
Dowell Piano
www.dowellpiano.com

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#1903042 - 05/25/12 03:52 PM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: Thomas Dowell]
Olek Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 8240
Loc: France
Thomas , no it is inherent to the material, hence its use when it may be easy to dismount, or when there is friction (agrafes for instance)I dont know what this "oily"
(I suppose it is more a self lubricating material than something really oily, may be some one knowing more about that material can chime in)

I any case I believe it is very difficult to glue on brass, more than on copper or bronze. a little like aluminium may be.
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I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

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#1903045 - 05/25/12 03:56 PM Re: Gluing Felt to Brass [Re: TunerJeff]
Olek Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 8240
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: TunerJeff
Just a quick jab at this one...

Attended a manufacturer-class a while back, and the instructor addressed the issue of gluing leather (and felt) to the trapwork levers under grands. Such as the contact point of the pedal dowel and the lever for the shift mechanism. That pesky round one that keeps shifting, for instance. Contact cement does not stop it from sliding.

PVC-E glue (...like Eileen's Tacky Glue) and just a dab of SuperGlue (cyanoacrylate) to kick the glue and hold everything in place. One dot on the lever for the CA glue. Minor amount of glue on the leather or felt. Press together. Holds immediately and does not wick into felt or leather. Been using this with good success.

Some traditionalists will use the technique of old; a shellac stick (such as now used for repairing finishes) heated with a flame and dabbed on the metal, quickly place the leather or felt. Hold for 7 to 10 seconds, as the shellac cools. This is also a long-lasting technique.

Both of these work for me.
Yr. mileage may vary,


CA plus PVC E glue is a very good trick (or even with wood glue).

Still, on brass that may differ from the trapwork which is in Iron or bronze.
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I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

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