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#1901902 - 05/23/12 02:48 PM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: ClsscLib]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
Got to play to Roland RD700NX (and 300NX) thru good headphones at GC today.

I'm curious. Could you compare them for us, please, in terms of sound quality and action?

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#1901904 - 05/23/12 02:51 PM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: voxpops]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1591
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Only the 700 had the Studio Grand piano, and it was very good, though I don't mind the Concert Grand either. I played the Concert Grand on both. The action on both was good -- seemed a little nicer on the 700, but I'm not sure I could tell which was which were I blindfolded. I liked the sound on both.

I really hadn't planned on playing the 300NX -- I plugged into it first by mistake, then decided I'd see if I liked it after I learned my error. Not a bad board by any means.
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#1901906 - 05/23/12 02:54 PM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: ClsscLib]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Thank you. The 300NX seems like a very sensible, lightweight gigging board that is not too far behind its more expensive stable mate.

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#1901914 - 05/23/12 03:12 PM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: voxpops]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1591
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Thank you. The 300NX seems like a very sensible, lightweight gigging board that is not too far behind its more expensive stable mate.


I'm not going to swear the 300NX doesn't have the Studio Grand -- again, there was no informed staff to help me.

I do read this about the 300NX on Amazon, and I don't know if this is a feature not present with the FP7f:

"In addition, the popular and powerful Piano Designer feature has been included in the RD-300NX feature set, letting you build custom pianos quickly and easily on the graphic LCD."
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#1901922 - 05/23/12 03:36 PM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: ClsscLib]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1418
Sound wise the RD-300NX isn't far behind the 700NX, but action wise the PHAIII is light years ahead of the Ivory Feel-G in the RD-300NX. The Problems I had as a gigging musican with my Rolands were the anemic piano sounds live, and the length (and weight of the RD-700NX).
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1901931 - 05/23/12 03:54 PM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: PianoZac]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1591
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Sound wise the RD-300NX isn't far behind the 700NX, but action wise the PHAIII is light years ahead of the Ivory Feel-G in the RD-300NX. The Problems I had as a gigging musican with my Rolands were the anemic piano sounds live, and the length (and weight of the RD-700NX).


Zachary, according to the paperback copy of Piano Buyer I have (a year old), both the RD300NX and the RD-700NX have PHAIII. Is that wrong?

PB does list a 300GX that is supposed to have PH aII action.

It wasn't my intention this morning to A/B those two boards, but I didn't detect much difference in action between the 300NX and the 700NX boards that I played.



Edited by ClsscLib (05/23/12 09:24 PM)
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#1902015 - 05/23/12 06:56 PM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: Ozgur]
ctnski Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 272
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted By: Ozgur
Originally Posted By: Karnevil
IMO the Roland action is too easy and light for classical practice in the long run. In that regard the AvantGrand is better IMO.


The action of Roland is unrealisticaly even, perfect and easy to play. Very practical for fun and self-confidence which lasts until you play the real thing. AvantGrands are better for classical players. I agree.


That is so hilarious. I guess I need to ask my piano tuner to deregulate my Steinway's action so it plays like the real thing. This after hiring him for 8-10 hours to regulate it to concert level.

I bought my Roland just because its action is so light and even and so closely matches that of my grand.

Yes, I am a classical player, a dedicated amateur.

Craig
_________________________
NY Steinway A 2005; Roland FP-7F/ FP-4

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#1902234 - 05/24/12 07:15 AM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: ClsscLib]
bennevis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4391
Anyone who regularly plays on acoustics of different brands will realize that every piano feels different, especially between different brands and sizes and uprights v grands.

The PHA-III on my V-Piano is about midway in keyweight and (stiffness of) action in comparison to the concert grands I play on regularly from Fazioli, Steinway, Yamaha, Blüthner, Grotrian-Steinweg, Schimmel, Shigeru Kawai etc. And because most of the grands I play have been carefully regulated & tuned (I no longer bother to play on those that haven't, now that I have my V-Piano), they all feel very even and smooth - just like my V. An acoustic that doesn't feel even in action needs attention from a tech. But you can't do much with uneven action on DPs, except possibly for the AGs.

I need more time to adapt to the actions on some pianos (whether AP or DP) more than others, but I've become so used to different actions that it never takes more than 5 minutes. What's important to me as a classical pianist is that I'm in control of the sounds that I 'produce', not whether the action is identical to any particular acoustic grand that I like.

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#1902248 - 05/24/12 07:52 AM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: ClsscLib]
Karnevil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 154
Well, it depends on where you are in terms of development of technique and experience I guess. From my experience, I prefer to play an action more on the heavy side at home, so that the transition to the various acoustic I play in my work is more seamless. To say that this argument is hilarious is just plain dumb. Maybe someone feels the need to defend their DP or whatever. I'm stating my own experience, but I'm sure there are other more accomplished classical players here on these forums that may or may not feel differently.

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#1902283 - 05/24/12 09:19 AM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: bennevis]
Kona_V-Piano Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Anyone who plays on acoustics of different brands regularly will realize that every piano feels different, especially between different brands and sizes and uprights v grands.

The PHA-III on my V-Piano is about midway in keyweight and (stiffness of) action in comparison to the concert grands I play on regularly from Fazioli, Steinway, Yamaha, Blüthner, Grotrian-Steinweg, Schimmel, Shigeru Kawai etc. And because most of the grands I play on have been carefully regulated & tuned (I no longer bother to play on those that haven't, now that I have my V-Piano), they all feel very even and smooth - just like my V. An acoustic that doesn't feel even in action needs attention from a tech. But you can't do much with uneven action on DPs, except possibly for the AGs.

I need more time to adapt to some of the actions on the pianos (whether AP or DP) more than others, but I've become so used to different actions that it never takes more than 5 minutes. What's important to me as a classical pianist is that I'm in control of the sounds that I 'produce', not whether the action is identical to any particular acoustic grand that I like.


I would also like to add that the PHAIII on my V-Piano feels about half the keywieght and stiffness of my Yamaha CLP990. I can play better on my V-Piano all of my songs because of the smoothness of the feel in comparison to my Clp990. Now remember that I had been playing my CLP990 for over ten years, so it was quite surprising how effortless the PHAIII makes playing difficult songs. It also helps how organic the V-Piano sounds in reaction to any type of playing.

If I were to be asked how the PHAIII can be improved, I'd have to say I'd like it a tad heavier, however not by much at all. By it being as light as it is, I find myself playing longer sessions than I used to compared to my CLP990 and other grands. My other DP, the S90 is even lighter than the V-Piano and has the wieght evenly distributed. Which is perfect for a synth.
_________________________
Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90

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#1902390 - 05/24/12 01:11 PM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: Kona_V-Piano]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1591
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Still new to PHA-III, but from what I've tried I agree with Bennevis and Kona_V-Piano: It seems midway between somewhat stiffer acoustic grands and some with a lighter touch, maybe leaning more towards the lighter side (in a good way).
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#1902801 - 05/25/12 08:03 AM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: Karnevil]
ctnski Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 272
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted By: Karnevil
Well, it depends on where you are in terms of development of technique and experience I guess. From my experience, I prefer to play an action more on the heavy side at home, so that the transition to the various acoustic I play in my work is more seamless. To say that this argument is hilarious is just plain dumb. Maybe someone feels the need to defend their DP or whatever. I'm stating my own experience, but I'm sure there are other more accomplished classical players here on these forums that may or may not feel differently.


No, what is hilarious is the idea that an action can be too perfect, that a digital piano that attains some level of perfection is somehow too perfect compared to the real thing.

I bought my grand for the buttery smooth action and rich harmonic sustain; I bought my digital because it most nearly matches my grand, at the price I was willing to spend.

Isn't that what we all want, perfection in our instrument? I would be the last to criticize anyone's choice of instrument, and I would be the last to feel a need to defend my choice of instruments to anyone.
_________________________
NY Steinway A 2005; Roland FP-7F/ FP-4

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#1902806 - 05/25/12 08:19 AM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: ClsscLib]
bennevis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4391
Classical concert pianists are often required to play pp to pppp (as well as ff to fffff grin), and any unevenness in the action would lead to some notes not sounding. I was at a concert given by Arcadi Volodos a few days ago and some of his pppp was barely audible in the hall (where everyone was so silent that you could have heard a pin drop), yet all the notes were clearly heard, perfectly voiced, weighted and controlled. You can't do that with anything less than perfectly even key action.

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#1902812 - 05/25/12 08:38 AM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: ClsscLib]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
ctnski said No, what is hilarious is the idea that an action can be too perfect, that a digital piano that attains some level of perfection is somehow too perfect compared to the real thing.

Yes, there does appear to be something Swiftian about having arrived at a situation where the instrument is being criticised solely on the grounds that it is better than it supposed to be.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#1902837 - 05/25/12 09:30 AM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: toddy]
kurtie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 195
Hi,

Originally Posted By: toddy
Yes, there does appear to be something Swiftian about having arrived at a situation where the instrument is being criticised solely on the grounds that it is better than it supposed to be.


As I understand it, the point is: if you are only going to play at hour home with your own instrument, then yes, use the most perfect action available... but if you are going to perform on different pianos then you are going to be able to adapt to imperfections and differences of their actions. Practising on a heavy action guarantees you to achieve good performances on lighter actions... but the opposite is not true.

I don't mean to practice on a sticky, uneven and unplayable action on a regular basis, but at least be used to play to heavy actions that develop strength on your fingers... As I see it, being used to play on a lot of different actions is good for developing good playing skills.

Regards,
Kurt.-

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#1902861 - 05/25/12 10:13 AM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: ClsscLib]
btcomm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: California
I finally got to try out the FP-7F and was surprised at the very hard bottoming out feeling. After owning the FP4 for 3 years it was quite a difference. I liked the sound of the 7F but my hands wouldn't take it for long. Glad you like it though.

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#1902868 - 05/25/12 10:23 AM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: btcomm]
36251 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 646
Originally Posted By: btcomm
I finally got to try out the FP-7F and was surprised at the very hard bottoming out feeling. After owning the FP4 for 3 years it was quite a difference. I liked the sound of the 7F but my hands wouldn't take it for long. Glad you like it though.
Right ON! I so agree with you. I sold my FP7 cause I felt my fingers were getting abused. FP4 feels like it has air-shock absorbers and is very responsive. It's a light action but in a good way (if that is possible.)
_________________________
AvantGrand N2, FP-4, Gallien-Krueger MK & MP

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#1902875 - 05/25/12 10:28 AM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: btcomm]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: btcomm
I finally got to try out the FP-7F and was surprised at the very hard bottoming out feeling. After owning the FP4 for 3 years it was quite a difference. I liked the sound of the 7F but my hands wouldn't take it for long. Glad you like it though.

The FP-4's action is much lighter than that of most DPs, and so you would probably struggle a little at first changing to, say, a Yamaha or a Casio, let alone another Roland. I bought my FP-4 a while before getting the 7F. It doesn't help maintain finger strength! Although I find the FP-4's action quite usable for gigging purposes, the 7F is hugely better, and puts you much more in control. It's worth sticking with it, IMO.

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#1902914 - 05/25/12 11:35 AM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: ClsscLib]
Karnevil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 154
I have never talked about perfectly even actions being a bad thing, the action on my AvantGrand is pretty even and perfect - it's a grand piano action obviously. What I was critical about is too light and shallow actions, which can to a certain degree mask shortcomings in your technique, which will releave themselves more clearly when you sit down at a "normal" acoustic piano. Therefore I'm sceptical of doing more or less all my classical practicing on a DP with a "forgiving" action. I've yet to do any scientific research on this, but my experience is that it's best to use an action in your daily practicing that most closesly represents the acoustic pianos you're gonna play out there. And that's all I have to say on this matter.

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#1903030 - 05/25/12 03:25 PM Re: DP Preconceptions Shaken [Re: ClsscLib]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2235
Loc: UK
I've been critical in the past about the hard bottoming out of the 7F keyboard. It is one reason I did not buy one when I was GASing. However I do have to say, like so many things, you get used to it. I no longer notice that problem with the 7F when I play on at my friends house.

I've not got used to the thin/weak mids yet though :-(

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